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Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

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milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
Yes...slightly yellowish green color. But get out the brix meter...because K is so mobile lower green leaves will have lower brix than new growth. Or sap pH will be slightly lower. I am right there with you at 5% k and am spraying ksil

what will be interesting is my organic matter is similar to yours. Just topsoil with a little peat for carbon. I am curious if we can build organic matter in the soil. I am dumping alfalfa hay all over the lot today and then I will spray that with nitrogen and some microbes.

Btw...I am looking at an occasional ammonium sulfate fert for similar reasons you are using n phuric. My water has an alkalinity of 56...so not terrible but could be better
 
C

Cep

Yeah I've always used native soil. This place had ok numbers when I tested it in the spring but I also brought it 72 yards of loam and 20 yards of peat to till in, then formed rows like I've done the past few years. I don't think increasing soil carbon would be to difficult because we are spraying so much extra energy on our plants and more frequently than the guys who are able to do it in the field setting.

Ever used P acid to treat your water? Even though my P levels are in the 500 range the paste test still comes up low I'm assuming because of all the soluble Calcium in my soil. I think I might use it on top of the N-pHuric. I'm still on the fence about what amounts will cut myco out of the equation or how big a part of the equation they even are for us.
 
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milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
I haven't used the n phuric. I take a slightly different approach on P that I probably should not say out loud. I use a touch of p acid in my foliar cause yea hard to keep P real active in the soil. I basically stole the idea from kempfs hypercap...minus the cano3 and urea.

But watch for fruiting fungal bodies if you get humid mornings. They will only break the surface if they have enough energy and they only have enough energy if they have enough P. So if you get em you are good on P.

I also fertigate a little pepzyme to free up P
 
FatherEarth

FatherEarth

Active member
Veteran
FatherEarth

FatherEarth

Active member
Veteran
Im seeing the same from my balanced soil, producing slightly yellow leaves. Looks like bleaching a bit and growth is definitely slower. I was worried something was wrong at first, then I foliar fed and everything jumped off ...
 
bobblehead

bobblehead

Active member
Veteran
milkyjoe said:
Yes...slightly yellowish green color. But get out the brix meter...because K is so mobile lower green leaves will have lower brix than new growth. Or sap pH will be slightly lower. I am right there with you at 5% k and am spraying ksil

what will be interesting is my organic matter is similar to yours. Just topsoil with a little peat for carbon. I am curious if we can build organic matter in the soil. I am dumping alfalfa hay all over the lot today and then I will spray that with nitrogen and some microbes.

Btw...I am looking at an occasional ammonium sulfate fert for similar reasons you are using n phuric. My water has an alkalinity of 56...so not terrible but could be better
Click to expand...

I applied ammonium sulfate with plants in the beds... and it wasn't pretty. It caused a significant pH swing that turned leaves yellow and the clover i have in my beds was putting out 4 and 5 leaves. I only used 50g per bed dissolved in 10 gallons of water, about 18 cu ft of soil per bed.
 
furrywall11

furrywall11

Member
I posted about Coots mix from Rare Earth a few months ago..I just wanted to say I do not endorse that soil. One of the huge selling points is that you won't have to add anything to it...wrong. Ran out of N six weeks into veg. Didn't have enough Mg either. A host of other problems too. _DEFINITELY_ not worth it for $360 per yard!!! Buyers beware!!!
 
FatherEarth

FatherEarth

Active member
Veteran
I guess the question is how much soil per plant and how long was your veg time supposed to run? If you put a plant in 50 gal and veg'd six weeks in the sun I could see having poor results...more details and post your analysis please. Lets understand what happened with your soil... Not that I endorse that product myself but it would be good to figure out what went wrong for future endeavors....
 
bamboogardner

bamboogardner

Active member


Sorry your having problems Furry. Here is a picture taken today of my girls growing in the same exact soil. They are mostly 8' to 10' tall and the 2nd cages are 6' across. Only thing I can think of is that I started hitting the 6'x6' beds early with compost tea, and planted a nitrogen fixing cover crop in January, tilled it under in April, and then planted the girls in early May with another nirtogen fixing companion crop of mostly clover. Tanio Spectrum and AEA Rejuvinate were my friends the whole 4 months before planting along with compost tea.

Sap analysis taken today showed plenty of nitrogen and I have had very few yellows, which I did not associate with a nitrogen deficiency. Shoot me a pm and we can talk. Do not want to talk soil here or the moderators are liable to close the thread. They have been quite adamant to keep the threads on the straight and narrow lately.
 
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milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
Lots of soil tests shown here with no problem. I would love to see it.

But yea...get that soil alive...rejuvenat, pepzyme, sea shield, spectrum, teas, potozoa teas...get themicrobes working. No mix will work without that. Then foliar just to jack photosynthesis for more microbe food

Do you have a water test?
 
furrywall11

furrywall11

Member
I used 45 gallons of soil per plant vegged in the sun. I started running out of N around 2 weeks in and obvious Mg defs. Even if the soil didn't run out of N until 6 weeks it wouldn't be worth it to me to spend over 2 x as much on soil that may or may not have the nutes to carry the plants through..I'd rather spend that extra money on my own nutrients and be sure. For those prices I could have just bought regular soil and used Canna all the way through, not skimping on the Boost, haha. I ended up doing really good with the greenhouse this year, but, only because I started using a nutrient program to fill in the huge gaps.

Bamboo, glad your plants are doing great. The one thing I can think of is I made my decision to get the Coots mix from Rare Earth last minute and I kind of kept giving them the nudge to get the soil mixed...so, maybe they mixed your batch slowly and added compost tea over time, like they said they were going to, and just whipped my batch together really quickly.


Here's the soil report...A and B are from random pots at the beginning of the season, C is an unused pile of soil.

And...a pic of the greenhouse. Had a great year so far--and technically, I did use Coots mix soil from Rare Earth but--it did not perform as advertised and was way over priced. If you're looking for soil that will carry your plants all the way through--it's very possible that this is not what you're looking for. Hopefully, my experience will save someone a bit of stress and money.

View attachment loganlabssoilreportapril23.pdf

View attachment loganlabssaturatedpasteapril23.pdf

ghousefull.JPG
 
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bamboogardner

bamboogardner

Active member
Another thing I see, which may not be the case with you Furry, is that peeps attempt to build up their soil too late in the season, and the microbes "eat at the table first" to build their colony, and in doing so the plants are shorted nitrogen.
One more mistake when building your soil with microbes is fertigating with EDTA nutrients not knowing that EDTA chelated nutrients are mostly petroleum based chelated and that kills the microbiology in the soil, relegating the user to continue to use the EDTA chelated nutrients full term because the microbiology in the soil is mostly diminished. It is best to use Amino based chelated nutrients when fertigating if you are building your soil with microbes.

If you are still having nitrogen problems I would recommend using a urea based nitrogen in foliar. It will be absorbed quickly since it does not have a plus or minus charge to it. You should see results very quickly. I use Verde by Humboltd Nutrients because it is readily available. There are AEA solutions as well but not available so easily unless you ordered early, and there are other good solutions out there and MJ would probably know those better than me. Best of luck Furry and I think you will be looking good by the end of the year. Plenty of time to fix the problems.
 
C

cannascholar

Member
Sorry to hear about the coots issue. $360 a yard is another slap in the face. Really loving the roots 707, $200 a yard and less in bulk. Just bio coat gold and water so far.

Fe, are you still finding that you get leaf burn at more than a few drops e shield per gal. I'm finding that they're comfortable with 2-3 ml however closer to 30 led to death.
 

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reppin2c

Well-known member
Veteran
@furry From the analysis's I'd say there is a less life then ideal. The standard test is pretty good but the saturated test has high K. Same story as always it seems. Unfortunately I guess you have to prep the mix for months ahead I guess. Also 45s aren't very big but seems you made it work. For 350-360 a yard it should be turn key and give hand jobs....no months of prep. High price tags like that make me think how in the gold rush days how the miners where getting mined. I've bought cars for less then a yard lol
 
maxmurder

maxmurder

Member
Veteran
hey milky,

i've been looking for threads on how to use the refractometer but not getting the answers i need, when you have a chance could you refer me to a thread or share some knowledge?
i bought a handheld/look into light and focus refracto but haven't used it yet. i ordered a pike vice grip squeezer and while on their site picked up a hanna digital refracto.
i want to know which leaves to use for measurements and do i only squeeze the actual leaf ?
i took a big fan leaf off an indoor and got a 2.9, then took another fan closer to to the top and got a 4.5.
to me these plants are very happy and healthy great posture, no visible defs....
this is nowhere near the 12 i'm looking for.
also i'm not looking for anything other than getting my plants above 12 just so i don't have pests and pathogens. not trying to split the atom:big grin:
i'd be stoked on any guidance.
the plants are wifi, about 3' tall in 5.5" sq pots, 16 plants for each 750 gavita in 4x4 trays.
top feed run to waste every hour for 15 seconds when lights on.
6 mils per gallon cutting edge solutions micro
9 mpg ces bloom
5 mpg botanicare calmag
5 mpg humboldt nutes ginormous 0-18-16
ph 5.8

medium is royal gold tuper (coco, forest humus, oyster shell, perlite and azomite)
 
MountZionCollec

MountZionCollec

Active member
Anyone notice new shipments of sea shield look/smell different? I remember my first order being fairly stinky, but wow it really smells like a bottle of diarrhea and the texture is more liquidity. I'm still using it but just going to fertigate it, any opinions appreciated on if its normal.
 
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