Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[Bulldog420]

So, I need to get some agricultural sulfur..... Not sure where or how to get but I will look into that. Also, how much rejuvenate and spectrum did they have you add after? At what rate?

So I think I should also be foliar and soil drenching the following products:
PHT Calcium
Micropak
Rejuvanate
Sea Shield
PHT Phosphorous

Also applying spectrum will help.
Any other thoughts?

 

[theJointedOne]

Just picked up his new edition, trying to learn this stuff.

 

[Diggaz]

Also Doggie, your Calcium is low and your Magnesium high. Dont spray any Mag at all, there is too much there right now. Albrecht states that the Calcium and Magnesium together should equal 70 to 80% of your Exchangable Cations and that Potassium should be 1/3 the total of Ca and Mg. You now have 52.04Ca + 22.17Mg for a total of 74.21. The K is 23.42 so you are close to the 3/1 ratio Albrecht recommends. The problem being your Ca is low and your Mg is high. Calcium should be a minimum of 60% and you only have 52% available. I would add Ca to your foliar and not any Mg because Mg should only be 10 to 20% of the availability, and you are already over that at 22.17%. Forget about the standard soil results. Those are good for next year so you know what to do. Focus on the Saturated Paste test which tells you right now at this moment in time what the plants can mine out of the soil. Whatever it cannot mine out of the soil, add by foliar, plain and simple. The saturated paste test is the next best thing to a tissue analysis and tells you what is available to the plant in real time right now. Good Luck.

Bamboo, his base cations are bang on (edit;hydrogen is 0, what I ment is the Ca-Mg-K), a saturated paste test has nothing to do with base cations. Base cautions are what is held in the CEC of the soil. Saturated paste test does not represent what can be taken up by the plant it is the dissolved solids in the soil solution, like more ppms would mean the soil would have a higher EC.

 

[bamboogardner]

So, I need to get some agricultural sulfur..... Not sure where or how to get but I will look into that. Also, how much rejuvenate and spectrum did they have you add after? At what rate?

So I think I should also be foliar and soil drenching the following products:
PHT Calcium
Micropak
Rejuvanate
Sea Shield
PHT Phosphorous

Also applying spectrum will help.
Any other thoughts?

Here are the rates AEA has listed for solanacious crops, which include tomatoes.

Weekly Fertigation: (Soil Drench)

1 qt. PHT Phosphorus
1 qt. PHT Calcium
1 qt. MicroPak
1 qt. Rejuvenate
1 qt. Sea Shield
0.5 qt. Sea Crop

Weekly Foliar:

2 qt. HyperCaP
1 qt. PhotoMag
1 pt. MicroPak
Micro 5000 at 2.66 oz. per acre or 1.5 grams for 1000 sq ft.
.312 oz for 1000 sq ft Pepzyme Clear (12.5 oz. per acre)
1 qt. Sea Shield
0.5 qt. Sea Stim
1 qt. PHT Potassium, increase PHT K to 2 qt. at fruit fill
1 qt. PHT Calcium

Now the conversion from acre to 1000 sq ft is 39.941/1 Rounded off 1 qt for an acre would equate to .75 oz for 1000 sq ft. A 200 Gallon Smartie is 13.635 sq. ft for comparison.

In my particular soil, I have a huge shortage of Ca and way too much K. I am using 8 times the amount of Ca as indicated, and they love it. I was told by AEA that you generally cannot over do Ca. By me using 8x Ca over the recommended dose indicates that is true.

Tiger 90 is fast acting Agricultural Sulfur. It is cheap. Just DO NOT over do it. You will pay hell trying to reverse the chemical reaction of using too much. When whetted, it is the same as battery acid. 3/4 of a TABLESPOON per 200 gallon smartie. That equates to 2 TEASPOONS. That is all. Make sure to use rejuvinate and spectrum if you have it. If not, a microbiological tea is mandatory.

It worked for me. Yes, I lost a month of growth, but I have it stabilized now and at least will bring in a crop.

Let me know if this helps and good luck.

 

[bamboogardner]

Just picked up his new edition, trying to learn this stuff.

I only had to read it 10 times, along with books by Zimmer, Kinsey and Albrecht. Then one day, bingo, the light lit up and I understood what exactly they were saying. Happy Reading.

 

[bamboogardner]

Saturated paste test does not represent what can be taken up by the plant it is the dissolved solids in the soil solution, like more ppms would mean the soil would have a higher EC.

"The saturated paste test shows what nutrients are immediately available in the soil’s water solution. These are the easy access nutrients for plants, so this test better predicts what nutrients (and how many) will get into the plant".

Read this and maybe you will change your mind.

http://farmingsweetbay.wordpress.co...t-saturated-paste-test-complete-soil-picture/

 

[Bulldog420]

Bamboo - thanks for all the help.

You didn't list how much volume of what the root drench fertilizer goes into. Is that per 20-30 gal? Same with the foliar except the ones done by acreage.

 

[milkyjoe]

http://bionutrient.org/library/audio-archive

Page 104 of dereks powerpoint gives saturated paste targets.

My understanding is H replaces other cations on the base exchange sites. That can occur at any ph. Your problem will be P And base traces will be blocked by the high ph...hence the micropak recommendation...not cause they aren't there but because they cannot be taken up.

Ammonium phosphate can be used for the upyake of P at high ph

 

[Bulldog420]

Milkyjoe - What did you think about the sulfur recommendation by bamboo? I am tentative to do so this stage in the game, I triggered flower on Aug 10th.

 

[bamboogardner]

Okay, I have 25 200 smarties. I make a batch up for 1000 sq ft and put that into 120 gallon tank and water so each plant gets equal amounts. This is probably just a tad over twice of what is recommended by AEA, but the plants love it. You could put the same mix in a bigger tank and increase the amount you water them. That is up to you. The mix given by AEA is for 1000 square feet of plant area. The gallons of water you add per 1000 sq ft is inconsequential. It is the amount of nutrients each plant is getting. So if you use more water in your mix, you will have to give each plant more water too. Hope that explains it.

 

[milkyjoe]

H has a meq of 20 vs 400 for Ca. This is why it takes such small amounts of elemental sulfer or sulfuric acid.

And I am here to tell you that you can get too much Ca. Particulary with the liberal use of cano3. And it ain't pretty cause you stop taking up both mg and k and that sets off all kinds of problems

 

[bamboogardner]

Micropack has Sulfur in it, as well as other minerals and would also work. So any discussion on using ag sulfur or Micropak is moot at this point in your plants life cycle. Both would do the trick. If you feel better with the Micropack, go for it. Just get that friggin Ph below 7.0 so the Hydrogen anions can do their thing and let your soil work.

 

[theJointedOne]

I only had to read it 10 times, along with books by Zimmer, Kinsey and Albrecht. Then one day, bingo, the light lit up and I understood what exactly they were saying. Happy Reading.

Thanks, I have a few others coming as well.

Any others suggested reading? A good Albrecht book by chance?

 

[Bulldog420]

Thanks everybody, I am going to try to do the math on everything right now.

 

[milkyjoe]

Milkyjoe - What did you think about the sulfur recommendation by bamboo? I am tentative to do so this stage in the game, I triggered flower on Aug 10th.

I would use foliars and AP for the rest of the year and fix the ph later. If you kill microbes with sulfer no telling what you may block out. Use rejuv and spectrum libetally

 

[bamboogardner]

H
And I am here to tell you that you can get too much Ca.

I agree with Milky on too much Ca. You can increase it to a point, but lets be sane about it. Water is good for you too and nutritionists advocate drinking a lot. But we all know if you drink too much like in those water drinking contests they had, it will kill you.

 

[milkyjoe]

Thanks, I have a few others coming as well.

Any others suggested reading? A good Albrecht book by chance?

Kinseys book is actually good. He does not explain the math but there is a lot pf insight. For example...ca kicks mg off cec sites. So when you add ca you also should calculate the effect on mg and adjust if needed

 

[bamboogardner]

I would use foliars and AP for the rest of the year and fix the ph later. If you kill microbes with sulfer no telling what you may block out. Use rejuv and spectrum libetally

100% agreement with Milky. Give the girls what they need via foliar. You can see what they need by that Paste Test. But in the same sense if you can get the Ph down, then the girls can mine some additional goodies out of the soil. But saving the crop via foliar is the main action right now. Bringing the Ph down is secondary, but still important. You need to stabilize the cause right now. Milky is probably more schooled on alot of these issues. I just recently got schooled because I did not believe all the misinformation that was occurring in the forums. 8 books down and 4 more on my shelf to go. Next one is Albrecht on soil balancing.

 

[Diggaz]

"The saturated paste test shows what nutrients are immediately available in the soil’s water solution. These are the easy access nutrients for plants, so this test better predicts what nutrients (and how many) will get into the plant".

Read this and maybe you will change your mind.

http://farmingsweetbay.wordpress.co...t-saturated-paste-test-complete-soil-picture/

I agree with you there Bamboo and read that article when I seen it in another one of your posts, but just because they have access to them does not mean they are being taking up. That and i dont think you can use Albrecht ratios on paste tests, they are base cation ratios..... Milky I cant find that power point presentation.

 

[surfguitar]

Have we come to any sort of basic numbers to start out with as far as ml per gal? I've been doing around .5-2ml per quart based on some pm's from milky but reading thru this thread that seems really low. Regardless they respond very well but I might have to ramp it up a bit my only fear is burning because when I was using Gary's recommendations they got a little burned on the tips