Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[plantingplants]

They were indeed underwatered. The whole garden dried out quicker than i expected. I soaked them down yesterday and today. i just watered in supr green chicken manure top dress.

Slow what are you seeing that said lack of water?

I dont have a current sample. Only from before planting. Ill dig it up

 

[slownickel]

They were indeed underwatered. The whole garden dried out quicker than i expected. I soaked them down yesterday and today. i just watered in supr green chicken manure top dress.

Slow what are you seeing that said lack of water?

I dont have a current sample. Only from before planting. Ill dig it up

PP,

Look at that leaf showing the most translocation. The stem is bending over. Stems bending over is the key. Stems in the air, leaves bending over is too much water. Stems bending with the leaf is shortage of water.

 

[hobbyhorse]

Plants- once u get that ec sorted out. Try some mulch or cover crop man. Irs a long summer

 

[Lightweight]

The yellowing of that plant, especially in whole sections or a side is most likely an injured or rotten root system or stalk. It could be animal or some mechanical damage, but insect damage/borers seems a lot more uncommon. It's usually something common.

I would not water that plant until the healthier parts wilt, if that is possible. It's water needs are easily cut in half or less in that condition

Thanks for your insight! You hit the nail on the head I believe. I killed that plant. It wasn't going to recover or at least I've never had one I could bring back that was declining as fast as that one was.

Maybe I hit a main root with one of the ground stakes for the trellis? That's the theory I'm leaning towards ATM. I can rule out an animal; we don't have any underground critters here. Or it might have been a boring bug of some kind. I've had 2 or maybe 3 different boring bugs that I've had kill my plants. I used to lose maybe 3 to 4 plants throughout the year when I was growing straight outdoors so they're not a common problem, but they're common enough. Anyway, when I pulled the plant up I cut into the stem and roots and it was rotting up the stem.

Thanks again redlaser! I'll put up my trellis sooner next time to be on the safe side.

 

[plantingplants]

My sap pH is high and my soil EC is low, like 0.1-0.2. So I need to fertilize but my sap is cation heavy, so what does that mean? I fertilize anions? P and No3? Or chicken and add extra P? Or is chicken bad because too much ammonia (cation)?

Now im remembering orechron said something about nitrate maybe doing the opposite to plant sap and alkalizing it..... Ill hae to dig it up

Thanks hobby.

 

[slownickel]

PP,

Sounds like you are guessing at this point. Why not send a sample to the lab and stop guessing. Those meters have very limited capacity to tell you what to do. Isn't that clear yet? Nitrogen drives the conductivity. Get some aminos on quick while you wait for the soil analysis....

 

[jidoka]

Those meters say way to much K. That is what is driving pH. Aminos are ok. My choice would be a combo of pacific grow and liquid bone meal

Edit...supRgreen is 2% k...no bueno in your case

 

[plantingplants]

Slow ill send in samples. How does N drive soil EC if 50 ppm N would only raise EC by 0.1? (Ec=ppm*2/1000)

Jidoka, are you saying 300ppm sap is high K or are you referring to the first reading I posted, around 2600 or whatever it was.

 

[jidoka]

Bottom leaf way higher than top. You really don't want bottom more than 15% higher than top

All ions drive EC. They all have a salt index. Some will argue the real benefit of sea crop is electrical charge more so than ultra trace elements

 

[plantingplants]

Heres the thing tho- i read ec with 1:2 soilsoln and you guys read it with probe. 300 Ppm ec in 1:2 is 700 ppm with probe. So 0.15 is more like 0.3-0.4 to you guys


When you say top you mean the top most mature leaf right? No cheating? On these plants sometimes the upper fan leaves look big but its unclear attimes which are fully mature. Its also confused by the fact that final leaf size isnt the same throughout the life of the plant....

 

[jidoka]

OK...and ????

Never mind where "us guys" run EC. Look at your plant.

That yellow leaf is what? It obviously ain't K or your top leaf would be yellow. You lack N and you lack enough energy to metabolize what you do have

Or not...it's your plant mang

 

[slownickel]

Send in a leaf analysis to Logan. Dry it well and send it in. They are receiving them. Call it comfrey.

Send in the soil analysis to Spectrum.

That is a P deficient leaf by the way...

 

[slownickel]

All ions drive EC. They all have a salt index. Some will argue the real benefit of sea crop is electrical charge more so than ultra trace elements

Try finding a chart somewhere. Nitrate pushes three times more than K, Mg, Ca or Na....

 

[plantingplants]

Doka im just trying to learn- didnt mean to come off challenging. Was worried we would misdiagnose it if EC was actually high enough, since my method of ec measurement gives a # less than half the # you get. Like weighed vs scooped soil test. Anyway i appreciate your help.

Slow thats good to hear. Im gonna start doing that.

Im going to feed pacific gro and phosphoric acid. I have enough alkalinity to get a decent P feed from phos acid.

 

[jidoka]

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/salt_index_calculation.htm

 

[slownickel]

https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/salt_index_calculation.htm

Salt index is not a very thorough measurement of ppms.... sorry.

Keep looking!

 

[jidoka]

One thing I know is if the microbes are working the plant will take up organic N, nitrate will not be formed and EC (not talking ppm) will not go up much at all. I am talking potential energy and you are talking ppm apparently

Put enough of any ionic salt in there and you can raise ppm unless you get a reaction forming a compound...say P acid and ionic Ca

 

[slownickel]

One thing I know is if the microbes are working the plant will take up organic N, nitrate will not be formed and EC (not talking ppm) will not go up much at all. I am talking potential energy and you are talking ppm apparently

Put enough of any ionic salt in there and you can raise ppm unless you get a reaction forming a compound...say P acid and ionic Ca

Find a ppm chart and stop guessing. ppms' come from everything. What drives the ppms are more nitrogen than anything else, look at the meq to ppm conversion.

Your ideas are fragmented at best... a good soils book might help.

 

[jidoka]

Didn't your dude call it ergs? Energy released per gram of soil.

My ideas are going to be pixelated tonight...shrooms and fireworks.

 

[reppin2c]

Man the tension in this thread lol

The differences in sap between different plants is pretty crazy. Im just gonna try for a happy medium between all of them. My employee just saw them for the first time in a week, he's super impressed but I can't tell any different cuz I see them everyday.

Full term is cranking pretty good gonna do an sap test for the first time on those ones. I made a boo boo and found a leaky valve on the res. The water was enriched with solubor...the lowest plant probably has 50 ppm B now and it croaked. Lol the work load keeps dwindling. Hauling water sucks