Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[slownickel]

well thats some bullshit, what is added that can't be used in organic production? When i purchased my product package from them i specially ask them for only certifiable products. (I do have a bunch of accelerate)

honestly though "organics" are stupid, i use it for marketing purposes but my point is if your building your soil life and OM then why should it matter how your products are derived? I want to do a test plot in my garden space on using top quality products( organic or not) will increase my quality and yield vs. my standard organic style i use now. If it doesn't hurt the biology then why should it be a problem?

Happy,

Rules are rules in organics. I can point you to a dozen things that should be considered organic and they aren't.

I too am organic for marketing reasons, I can grow more and better quality if I used some "non organic inputs", but I choose to play by the rules.

It is a bitch though when someone tells you that their product is organic and it isn't. Important to insist (before shelling out your money) on a copy of their organic certification.

 

[slownickel]

How is Sait the bottom of the barrel in relation to Kempf? I've not met Kempf in person but have heard many stories of him fucking people over, from people who had business with him directly not just gossip. Sait may be a fertilizer salesmen but he doesn't forego talking about the importance of correcting soil calcium to sell more juice like Kempf seems to. Do you know something about him that we don't?

Orch,

Can send you a dozen emails or so from Sait. He doesn't really know much.... and he sells fertilizers just like AEA does and in many cases makes recommendations to sell ferts (which is his business) that folks don't need or shouldn't apply. Magnesium is one that comes to mind. An uneducated clown can recommend Mg and folks will see a response. What happens when they keep doing that? You know! They don't. Most stoners are going to see a response and say, wow, that was great. I will keep applying more. No words of caution or limits are given. Why? BECAUSE they are salesman and not agronomists. Even agronomists get it wrong, imagine! What are your chances with someone uneducated in agronomy figuring it out?

I would argue somewhere between zero and nil chance pal!

It is a very big conflict of interest to be the Doctor and the Pharmacy as we say. Especially when the Doctor is uneducated and just regurgitating something they read somewhere.

In a lot of Australia there are high pH's and salt problems. Yet Sait sticks with the 68% Ca! I did the math for the poor bloke prior to his world tour trip in Brasil, even sent him soil analysis from all over Brasil so he could see what he was up against...

You better than most know you don't need fancy bottles that are 80% water and cost a zillion times what they should....

It is bad enough when we have educated people making woowoo juice, but when you get uneducated folks pretending to know what they are doing and are only preying on ignorance of the farmer, that pisses me off. (just a tad more than the educated guys). You think they got some divine wisdom from the ayahuasca trip they did and now know the information of the ages? Nah... just marketing pal and preying on ignorance.

But hey, give some of his woowoo a shot and tell me how it works out importing woowoo from Australia!!!

 

[hobbyhorse]

Woowoo comes from a land down under

 

[orechron]

What do these guys do at AEA that is unethical?

The way he treats people mainly. If you've seen their promo vids you'll see that thy would have real farmers come on and talk about the products they've used and show their results. John will sweet talk them into doing the videos with hints at being a distributor or getting discounts then cut them loose when they request that their time be monetized.

Many of their products are unnecessary. Say you need 200 lbs/acre potassium. You could buy the potassium sulfate or you could buy 50 gallons of holoK every year for the next ten years. Which do you think AEA wants you to do and which option is cheaper?

Two people that worked for AEA around 2010-2012, one in marketing and one in sales, left to collaborate and or work directly with Sait explained that some of AEA's products (huma carb for sure) were very similar to what Sait was already selling. I don't know if it can be called intellectual property theft or not.

Furthermore, the way AEA's website and other advertising portray the company bother me. It's very "buy our products to help save the planet", but its really just using a shit ton of energy to ship water. Spend your money on minerals for the most part. I would be bothered less by this if their website looked like most other ag supply company sites.

Orch,

Can send you a dozen emails or so from Sait. He doesn't really know much.... and he sells fertilizers just like AEA does and in many cases makes recommendations to sell ferts (which is his business) that folks don't need or shouldn't apply. Magnesium is one that comes to mind. An uneducated clown can recommend Mg and folks will see a response. What happens when they keep doing that? You know! They don't. Most stoners are going to see a response and say, wow, that was great. I will keep applying more. No words of caution or limits are given. Why? BECAUSE they are salesman and not agronomists. Even agronomists get it wrong, imagine! What are your chances with someone uneducated in agronomy figuring it out?

You can shoot me the emails if you don't mind doing it. I would be interested to read them. Wait, however was the person that informed me of dutch growers being unable to correct magnesium deficiency with epsom applications. I am sure he isn't willy nilly about writing an epsom prescription now, maybe he was in the past. You said it took you many years. I wasn't aware still maybe 2 years ago.

I would argue somewhere between zero and nil chance pal!

It is a very big conflict of interest to be the Doctor and the Pharmacy as we say. Especially when the Doctor is uneducated and just regurgitating something they read somewhere.

In a lot of Australia there are high pH's and salt problems. Yet Sait sticks with the 68% Ca! I did the math for the poor bloke prior to his world tour trip in Brasil, even sent him soil analysis from all over Brasil so he could see what he was up against...

You better than most know you don't need fancy bottles that are 80% water and cost a zillion times what they should....

I don't contest this of course. My opinion of Sait is also based on his person.

It is bad enough when we have educated people making woowoo juice, but when you get uneducated folks pretending to know what they are doing and are only preying on ignorance of the farmer, that pisses me off. (just a tad more than the educated guys). You think they got some divine wisdom from the ayahuasca trip they did and now know the information of the ages? Nah... just marketing pal and preying on ignorance.

Did Kempf or Sait do ayahuasca?

But hey, give some of his woowoo a shot and tell me how it works out importing woowoo from Australia!!!

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

The way he treats people mainly. If you've seen their promo vids you'll see that thy would have real farmers come on and talk about the products they've used and show their results. John will sweet talk them into doing the videos with hints at being a distributor or getting discounts then cut them loose when they request that their time be monetized.

Many of their products are unnecessary. Say you need 200 lbs/acre potassium. You could buy the potassium sulfate or you could buy 50 gallons of holoK every year for the next ten years. Which do you think AEA wants you to do and which option is cheaper?

Two people that worked for AEA around 2010-2012, one in marketing and one in sales, left to collaborate and or work directly with Sait explained that some of AEA's products (huma carb for sure) were very similar to what Sait was already selling. I don't know if it can be called intellectual property theft or not.

Furthermore, the way AEA's website and other advertising portray the company bother me. It's very "buy our products to help save the planet", but its really just using a shit ton of energy to ship water. Spend your money on minerals for the most part. I would be bothered less by this if their website looked like most other ag supply company sites.

Not what i like to hear about a company, but i do understand that people do want to make money doing the job they want to do. Even if it is a fertilizer company.

Besides weither i agree with how they do their business "making money"
the reason for following these guys work, John and Graeme is because they study plant sap. All their resent work has been learning and using what responds to the sap in the plant the most efficiently and give crop response based on those readings. cool stuff, and also cool that we can now do the same. with the horiba meters and hopefully pretty soon with a Sap lab in the states (preferably west coast) just like Nova Crop

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

PLZ use discernment in the product you buy. Buy at your own risk

 

[jidoka]

Anybody ever try to raise Mo in their soil and have success? My boy Sait says 0.5-2 ppm. I have not gotten above 0.2 yet. How do you do it?

 

[plantingplants]

Yea I was wondering the same after not seeing Mo rise on mine. I meant to research how anions were held by the soil to see if some like Mo would leach easier. But maybe my plants were just hungry for it.

 

[orechron]

I've not seen Molybdenum leach. Brought it up to 1.5-1.7 ppm with sodium molybdate and it hasn't moved since.

 

[reppin2c]

What test are you guys using?

At a 2ppm target that could easily be overdone

 

[plantingplants]

Method 3050b from Spectrum.

But yea.. narrow window. Especially with the soil weight issues.

 

[jidoka]

aea plus at logan

 

[reppin2c]

Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot. See how far off the rest of this is. Maybe I'll have something to contribute afterwards

Edit Has anone here had an analysis before and after a perlite amendment? Curious to see if it bumped Si numbers

 

[jidoka]

http://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/soil-therapy-guidelines-understanding-your-soil-report-3/

kinda interesting how my man mr sait drives Mg off cec sites. He probably only has to do it a thousand times a yr...probably has no clue what he is doing at all, lol. Atomic weight may play a part here is my guess.

 

[plantingplants]

Man I was just reading a study on the variation of cec, base saturation, and pH in commercial peat. Mg ranged from 14-38% with an average of 25%. The fuck!

 

[jidoka]

The tests I have seen on SS4 and Promix come in at 11 and 9% Mg in spite of dolomite use in both of them.

 

[Space Case]

But even Sait says there, a heavy clay soil only needs about 10% Mg, so most of us can afford to drive some off. And in an acid soil, theoretically, lime or any other Ca source would also drive off some of the other cations. Cations are like the same pole of a magnet, when they get near each other, they have an electrostatic "push".

Cannabis and other fast growing annuals are Mo bioaccumilators, as I understand it. So elevated levels in the soil, with healthy plants, should be translocating Mo into the plant tissue rather quickly, especially as an anion. A sap or tissue analysis would probably be a better guage of where your Mo levels are. I have put down (relatively) large amounts of Sodium molybdate (15g per 1000 sq ft, every week) and have not measured large changes in the soil.

 

[jidoka]

lol...we managed to prove last yr that given enough open cec sites that epsom salts will raise base cation % of mg...a lot.

this yr ima go soft rock to take care of the P, no mg add and ksil to get k up. maybe some AS for sulfer and to raise ammonical n to match nitrate

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

lol...we managed to prove last yr that given enough open cec sites that epsom salts will raise base cation % of mg...a lot.

this yr ima go soft rock to take care of the P, no mg add and ksil to get k up. maybe some AS for sulfer and to raise ammonical n to match nitrate

Are you trying to push for equal parts Ammonium to nitrate? Ive read that 3/1 ratio of Nitrate to ammonium is a good balance?

 

[jidoka]

Ideally I would like my nitrogen all digested by microbes. But that does not happen completely, at least for me. The rest I would like to see 1:1