Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[slownickel]

I'm enjoying following along with this thread. I believe my soil is pretty dialed in. My plants are growing like crazy. I've been consistently foliar spraying Nutralive A and B and Tainio products. I need to fertigate more regularly (I guess), but my pressure tank needs fixing so I have to use the neighbors water and it's a hassle, but things are going good especially considering I had a late start in this spot with soil that wasn't dialed in and this has been an incredibly wet summer. Really ridiculous amounts of rain on the regular plus a few bonus tropical storms have made it a memorably wet summer. I'll be sending in some soil samples again in the near future, but things are cruising along well so far with these two exceptions which I would really appreciate some veterans' input:

I just wanted to get a confirmation that this is leaf septoria and not some deficiency or something. Leaf septoria is somewhat common in my area, especially in damper areas or when it's been as wet as it has been.
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=66434&pictureid=1651757&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=66434&pictureid=1651754&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

And I have no idea what this deficiency is. It's at the top new growth of a finicky Dream Beaver. I have 3 different Dream Beavers going and the other two have been good. This one has been throwing out twisted or misshapen leaves pretty much it's whole life. It's structure and growth have been fine otherwise.
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=66434&pictureid=1651755&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=66434&pictureid=1651756&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Thanks for all the input again. This thread and all the paths it has led to has helped this to be the biggest and best grow I've had so far.

Septoria will have that yellow ring around it and kind of respect the leaf veins. Sure looks like it....

 

[Lightweight]

Thanks for giving a look slownickel. The verdict is out I think on the one that looks a bit like boron toxicity. I considered that, but the yellowing looked too splotchy I though. It might be having a weird effect from the leaf septoria. Time will tell I guess. And it's just this one plant which is kind of weird.

That leaf septoria came out with a vengence the past couple days. I didn't realize how bad it got until I got to the garden today. I hit it with a baking soda/neem oil/Dr Bronner's soap spray early this evening. Hopefully it has some effect. I'll be rotating some different fungicidal stuff to stay on top of it.

 

[Avenger]

I just wanted to get a confirmation that this is leaf septoria and not some deficiency or something. Leaf septoria is somewhat common in my area, especially in damper areas or when it's been as wet as it has been.

Get out a magnifier and inspect the spotted areas looking for the small black, raised fruiting bodies.

 

[Lightweight]

Right on, thanks for the very cool tip Avenger!

 

[Top_shelf_farms]

OK the foliar should be sprayed twice, 7 days apart and the fertigation should be done in between.

foliar per 1000 sq ft:
micro 5000 1/4 tsp
pepzyme 2 ml
the 3 c's at 12 ounces a piece...sea shield, sea crop and sea stim.
pht p and ca at 6 ounces each

Fertigation:
Sea Stim 6 ounces
Sea Crop and Sea Shield 12 ounces
pht ca 12 ounces
pht p 6 ounces

You can see one focus is to get the roots working again and second, to get a bunch of base cations, particularly Ca into the plant.

If you look this isn't too far from Accelerate. If you have it a couple of heavy doses sprayed and one fertigated can replace this.

This would normally be the time of year extra base cations are called for anyways

What would a correct dose of accelerate be for foliar and a root drench right now?

 

[caterpillar710]

7% solution is full strength ,

1.5% probably better for right now

 

[MileHighGuy]

Minimum 1 gallon per plant. Takes about 20-24 gallons to do the whole 3000 sq ft greenhouse.



Haha. Awesome. My sentiments exactly! Except my bread and butter pot plants are in it, so the pissed off is running deep this year.

This is so Epic!! Love seeing this thread and all the honesty and transparency.

First off, really sorry this season isn't going as planned and that our soil might be part of that.

I'm also learning a ton from growers taking BAS soil full season.

We are only wanting to improve.

To be transparent I'm attaching here our Living Soil with Oly Mountain recipe tested at logan labs using M3 and also AA 8.2

The result is showing the oyster flour liming we used was falsely showing higher CEC and now with the AA 8.2 we are seeing a clearer picture. Comparing the two is interesing. (Note P is still M3 so numbers are the same)

Also at Red Thumb!! Let's get in touch. After this past season I'm wanting to get this right for next year more than ever before. We now have that larger soil mixer and it really down mix very consistent. That and I would be willing to fully balance a large batch for you according to your exact needs and provide pricing significantly better that last year to help make up for it.

I'll also reach out via email.

At the time you picked up the LOS oly we were using a large percentage of worm castings which really raises the price. We are no longer doing that in an effort to fully balance the soil. The goal is to offer a fully balanced version in the future that focuses on Micro-Nutrients instead of just recommending products like TM7 or Cyto-plus for trace minerals.

 

[reppin2c]

What's the return policy at BAS?

 

[MileHighGuy]

What's the return policy at BAS?

Serves me right for posting in here!

Call me monday and let's talk.

855-877-7645 Ext 101

 

[reppin2c]

It was more of a joke then anything and I don't think you posting here is the problem

 

[jidoka]

Are you still willing to mix clay vs peat\compost. I found some clay right next to the basalt

I like about 1/3 soil and pumice, about 3 cf compost and 6 peat

 

[MileHighGuy]

Are you still willing to mix clay vs peat\compost. I found some clay right next to the basalt

I like about 1/3 soil and pumice, about 3 cf compost and 6 peat

Yes and I'm interested in your results too. I now have most of the sulfates in stock if you want to run mix, run tests, mix again etc.

Great to see you here Jidoka

 

[jidoka]

So one of my trials this year was your base....1/3 peat, oly and pumice and then I amended that with a whole lot less Ca than you use....my total Ca load was 4.2 lbs of a 34% Ca product...so way less than you normally use.. 1.3 lbs in a yard of calcium. I also cheated and used ammonium phosphate to get this stuff started quick...so who knows what made the real diff. I also amended those sulfate salts for the micros.

It is too early to say for sure but it sure looks like I will get a fuckload of 4 ft colas, thick and dense using my clay mix (diff is clearly John's newest woowoo juice). Last year I grew 3 ft avg colas. In soil that has zero compost I am probably going to avg 4 ft colas and lots more of them than in your mix...but that remains to be seen. I suspect in your oly mix I may see a 5 ft cola or two, or more

Anyways too early to tell for sure...but either your base mix or the mix with no compost is going to be the champ. Problem is I need to order a bunch of soil tomorrow

it is my opinion the one salt you do not want too high is Ca. Second worse to have too much of is P followed closely by K. Follow the work of Nova Crop Control...almost all defs are caused by overage of something else.

Here is the soil I am using...http://rockshopgj.com/ What I like is that nothing is overdone. I get to add to every single category...so once I get to where I can judge how much change something is going to make I can dial this in really close

 

[jidoka]

So hard to see yet...the pic on the right is your base mix...the other pics are the no compost pics. So my take is the no compost plants went wider than the oly, made more colas...probably did not make as big of colas.

My real take is 1/3 pumice, 1/3 top soil probably 1/9 of oly, chicken shit and pinto bean compost and 2/3 of a yard of peat. it gives me something to work with...I can always add protein if I need to. Ferti Nitro is a great protein product

 

[plantingplants]

Does anyone have any peat and top soil soil analysis results? Just so I can get a general picture of what's in there. I want to stretch my coots to chill it out a little.

Doka are you still doing a high Ca test pot? What saturation are you trying? And wy do you believe Ca is the one you don't want too much of?

 

[jidoka]

I am going the opposite direction...less Ca and more Mg. The reason you need all that Ca is to flocculate the soil...with drain amends you don't need ridulous amounts of Ca

 

[caterpillar710]

When you first start with native clay you have to put at ton of gypsum and it's to get the water to get in to it do roots can go for it.

 

[jidoka]

Chances are that is true as you will have plenty of base cations on your sites if your soil is calcareous. However, if your soil is like the top soil I found it is simply short on everything so a balanced mix would be better.

If you used my native soil you would come up short on K and Mg.

If you use perlite or something like that your soil cannot be packed anyways...it will drain fine. And if you get it to drain fine then you need the mag anyways...I am finding a 3:1 mix best on Ca:Mg. The Ca that normally would go to opening up the soil can now be used to feed the plant.

Anyways...chances are I am just trying to start an argument

 

[caterpillar710]

You're right about what you're saying.

It just speaks to the point that you have to know what you're starting with to know how to approach it that's why coots mix and all these other subcool super soils don't work for everyone

 

[MileHighGuy]

View Image

So hard to see yet...the pic on the right is your base mix...the other pics are the no compost pics. So my take is the no compost plants went wider than the oly, made more colas...probably did not make as big of colas.

My real take is 1/3 pumice, 1/3 top soil probably 1/9 of oly, chicken shit and pinto bean compost and 2/3 of a yard of peat. it gives me something to work with...I can always add protein if I need to. Ferti Nitro is a great protein product

The variant I'm most interested in is the quality. Whichever produces the best quality in your opinion would be good info to have. They look beautiful!