Across International

[Hydrosun]

I make parchment or ptfe sheet sandwiches oil in the middle and roll them out thin with a marble rolling pin. Leave the sandwich together place in the oven. The terpenes seem to remain with the oil more this way. (Some say this is anecdotal but try one without the top layer and compare)The butane present will still come out around the edges when you flip you can push some out, gently with a silicone spatula or your hand. Be careful not to push too much, working those molecules will get wax. Thats why I dont do deep vacs. When to the flipping stage I just use low heat to keep it viscous with zero vac. everytime you break vac you are working the oil in out in out, and itll wax every time. when finished allow to cool for aprox 3 hours before trying to remove the parchment/ptfe, then cure at room temperature or below for up to a week or more for those hard to stabilize varieties . With lots of terpenes present shatter wont happen, it cannot. Has anyone seen or made shatter with 5% terpenes or higher? At 5%+ Im saying its mostly pull and snap, hit 10% and its goo, 20% is live resin runny ... Im done with shatter personally. Its all about terp rich goo IMO, but you have to be able to deliver what the ppl want sooo....If you try everything and it wont set up, get the oven to 120 and put in for 5 min and remove, cool completely on a room temp cooling rack. repeat til it rocks up. You have to sacrifice some terps to get it to shatter sometimes...

Great post thanks

 

[FatherEarth]

How do you keep the goo and minimize residual butane? I prefer goo consistency myself, and dont have access to testing so just assumed it has higher levels compared to guys pulling hard and long to get low test results.

Its all about the polish. Subzero dewax and rotovap under vacuum to reclaim. Basically, a Dab Genius is what you want, or build your own. ..

My thinking is that since terpenes are always being released and some are VOC's that is what makes the goo. Like when your slab comes out the vac oven and you try and package it without air curing. Its still releasing terpenes and those terpes trapped in packaging make your oil get tacky or sticky again. Everyone is always quick to think sap or goo is butane or solvent, and a lot of times its true. Although properly made terp rich anything will always be sappy IME. Im waiting for someone to show me otherwise, Im open to possibilities. Truly though dewaxing is the best way to purge your oil of residual butane or propane etc. thin film evap and finish with a couple flash heatings in the vac oven to get it to shatter. Hitting it with the vac multiple times shouldnt hurt now... I dont know why dewaxing has not become THE standard yet??


Sunfire, yea I pull the initial muffin in the vac oven I just dont do it as many times. Go full vac once, after that its best to go low and slow.. thats what works for me anyhow. >>You know the ways to skin something saying? you can insert that here<<<.


Respectfully,

FE

 

[snake11]

Its all about the polish. Subzero dewax and rotovap under vacuum to reclaim. Basically, a Dab Genius is what you want, or build your own. ..

Dab genius is just an overpriced chinese rotovap. I would look towards Heidolph and Bucchi.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Dab genius is just an overpriced chinese rotovap. I would look towards Heidolph and Bucchi.

I talked with Robert Gaither of Dab Genius at their CC booth a couple of weeks ago, and he mentioned he's about ready to offer his Chinese rotovap with all the known bitch points upgraded to US components. I was really stoned, but he was pointing at and describing bearings, seals, etc. Nice guy, a leading proponent of ethanol extractions, but remember he lives up in the fairyland of Lake Arrowhead, and is just a wee bit more laid back compared to most of us here in SoCal.

 

[Dab Strudel]

Does anyone have a newer 1.9 AI with the rails instead of shelf hangers? Im wondering if the lack of temp uniformity on the shelf creates buddering or requires you to rotate the slab every so often. With 3 sided heating its no walk in the park but it has a 7% differential in heating uniformity whereas the Elite is only 6.5%. The shelves are only aprox 1-2 sq in smaller on the 1.9 than the E2.3 so I dont see why anyone would buy something for 5000 when they could get 2 replicates without the bells n whistles for 1000 less. Or am I missing something here? Input please, as I am thinking of returning my Elite.

 

[Hydrosun]

Does anyone have a newer 1.9 AI with the rails instead of shelf hangers? Im wondering if the lack of temp uniformity on the shelf creates buddering or requires you to rotate the slab every so often. With 3 sided heating its no walk in the park but it has a 7% differential in heating uniformity whereas the Elite is only 6.5%. The shelves are only aprox 1-2 sq in smaller on the 1.9 than the E2.3 so I dont see why anyone would buy something for 5000 when they could get 2 replicates without the bells n whistles for 1000 less. Or am I missing something here? Input please, as I am thinking of returning my Elite.

I doubt shelf temp uniformity has any effect on buddering / waxing.

I have seen material shatter or budder with wire racks and 1/4" granite shelfs at identical temps. The variable has been the wax / budder instead of shatter resulted from water in the final product.

 

[Sunfire]

So why is aluminum the stock choice for shelves? Stock ones are only 1/16". I can get 1/4" ones cut for 20 each as opposed to 40 for stock ones. Does the granite hold more even heat and radiate/store it better than aluminum? I can get ss but it's triple the cost as aluminum.

 

[Hydrosun]

So why is aluminum the stock choice for shelves? Stock ones are only 1/16". I can get 1/4" ones cut for 20 each as opposed to 40 for stock ones. Does the granite hold more even heat and radiate/store it better than aluminum? I can get ss but it's triple the cost as aluminum.

These are great questions. Shouldn't steel plate be just fine for us or slate? Isn't the heaver the better?

I am not affraid of steel off gassing at 110* under vacuum.

We all should have shelves made instead of buying from AI, their prices are crazy.

A flooring store with broken tiles may be a great source for us, we have to cut to fit so a broken corner on a lager tile is no big deal for us.

How differently can various shelving material heat our parchment paper?

 

[Roji]

I got some nice custom cut granite shelves at a counter top supplier for $10 each. I wasnt picky about colour.

 

[Sunfire]

Weigh them for us will you roji? Are they 1/4"? Whats the dimensions? I agree with hydro that the denser the better however some materials don't radiate evenly and the center will be hotter. That is supposedly why aluminum is preffered (so they say) because it radiates heat evenly. I have read that quartz is the shit to have! I know from sustainable building practices that quartz holds and radiates mad heat! I just wonder how expensive that might be. Maybe we can get clarified crystal quartz sheets from a glass company?!? I'll ask my buddy if that exists next time I see him. Not too many glass blowers use quartz and I've never person ally heard of quartz sheet.

I think regular steel would start to get weird over time if you have to keep cleaning muffin batter off it with iso all the time.

 

[Gray Wolf]

So why is aluminum the stock choice for shelves? Stock ones are only 1/16". I can get 1/4" ones cut for 20 each as opposed to 40 for stock ones. Does the granite hold more even heat and radiate/store it better than aluminum? I can get ss but it's triple the cost as aluminum.

Besides being cheaper and easier to work with, Aluminum is non porous and transfers heat better than granite or marble. It will heat up faster and be more uniform, but will also cool down faster.

Granite will lose less heat during oven loading.

If you are changing your temperature during the process, the response time will be faster with aluminum.

Stainless is a poorer conductor and wouldn't heat as evenly.

Mild steel will work, but will corrode if unprotected.

 

[Chonkski]

I have 4x 1/2" granite tiles in one oven, and 4x 1/2" marble tiles in the my other oven. All from Lowes, they can cut tile there for you. Each tile must have only been about 3-5$. But I only have the smaller .9cf AI's, so I dunno if they carry larger tiles that will fit in bigger ovens.

I have noticed that the marble seems to hold more of an even temp. Although, both of them are up to (+~-) 5° hotter towards the back of the ovens.


I've been keeping an eye out for aluminum sheets, can anyone suggest a place I can have them cut to size?

 

[Gray Wolf]

I have 4x 1/2" granite tiles in one oven, and 4x 1/2" marble tiles in the my other oven. All from Lowes, they can cut tile there for you. Each tile must have only been about 3-5$. But I only have the smaller .9cf AI's, so I dunno if they carry larger tiles that will fit in bigger ovens.

I have noticed that the marble seems to hold more of an even temp. Although, both of them are up to (+~-) 5° hotter towards the back of the ovens.


I've been keeping an eye out for aluminum sheets, can anyone suggest a place I can have them cut to size?

I can a number of places locally, but look for a fab shop with a shear nearer your home.

 

[Sunfire]

I'd just look on google for metal fabrication as gw said, or sheet metal suppliers. They will have the equipment to cut you want you want.

so gw just repeated what I've heard elsewhere as well. Look like I'll go with the aluminum due to cost and even radiance. Will definetly keep heat loss during loading in mind. I wanna go 1/4" inch instead of 1/8". 1/8" is 10$ per 16x14 sheet, 1/4" is 20$.

I'm still going to look into the quartz thing but I think it will be way expensive.

 

[Rickys bong]

Look like I'll go with the aluminum due to cost and even radiance.

The difference in shelf material is how they absorb infrared radiation, not radiance.

In a vacuum oven the shelves are heated by the floor and in larger ovens from the walls giving off infrared energy.
Heat is also transferred into the shelves by conduction where the shelves contact the oven walls.
Aluminum is a good heat conductor so any heat gets distributed around evenly.

The difference in shelf temp from front to rear that some are seeing may come from heat loss out the window.

Quartz won't be better than other stone shelves. What you want is material that is a good absorber of IR radiation or energy and is also a good heat conductor so heat spreads out evenly around the shelf.

Heating in a vacuum oven is complex, heat is radiated to the first shelf which radiates heat to the shelf above it. At the same time heat is being lost out the window.

Flat black aluminum shelves would probably work best, but they will also lose heat the fastest when the door is opened...
Insulating the window somehow will also help. An insulating blanket that you can flip out of the way to peek inside or something.

Peace,

RB

 

[HashoftheTitans]

Right now I use the stock aluminum shelves with slabs of glass cut to size. I sandwich patties between parchment and then put the glass on top. You can see the patty expand out through the glass so you can stop pulling a vac if it gets too thin or close to the edge.

I have been thinking the past few days and as I am a big proponent of flipping, I think there is a better way to expose the bottom of the slab to let butane escape. I was thinking of taking different meshes of stainless mesh screen and having it coated with PTFE. With a fine enough mesh, you should be able to keep the oil from working into the mesh but still allow butane to move through it. After talking to Graywolf about it a bit, he informed me that there are PTFE membranes for micro-filtration. Perhaps if we could find sheets of this membrane to fit our shelves, we could just use wire mesh on frames to support the sheets and allow degassing from the bottom as well as the top of the slab.

 

[Sunfire]

The difference in shelf material is how they absorb infrared radiation, not radiance.

Im thinking it's both that are important. The ability to absorb the heat, and the ability to conduct it to every corner and radiate (opposite of absorb) the heat through simple diffusion where as a system of higher concentration will move to neighboring systems of lower concenteation. Higher concenteation being the heating elements and lowest being the top front by the window.

In a vacuum oven the shelves are heated by the floor and in larger ovens from the walls giving off infrared energy.
Heat is also transferred into the shelves by conduction where the shelves contact the oven walls.
Aluminum is a good heat conductor so any heat gets distributed around evenly.

Im not positive but I think aluminum has these properties because it's actually not that dense as compared to steel. This is perhaps why it's preffered? It's a good balance between a heat sink and radiator. If it were denser it maybe wouldn't distribute the heat around evenly?

The difference in shelf temp from front to rear that some are seeing may come from heat loss out the window.

yep I've heard that same statement and read it a bunch too

Quartz won't be better than other stone shelves. What you want is material that is a good absorber of IR radiation or energy and is also a good heat conductor so heat spreads out evenly around the shelf.

Quartz absorbs lots of IR from the sun and heats tremendously more that other stones. You can do this at home with a large piece of quartz next to something like lava pumice for instance that won't absorb much at all. Machu pichu was built with a stone that's 10% quartz due to these properties. Other denser components of the stone hold the heat that the quartz gathers. The quechua were intelligent folk.

Heating in a vacuum oven is complex, heat is radiated to the first shelf which radiates heat to the shelf above it. At the same time heat is being lost out the window.

yep yep, we are relying on diffusion here and the lack of matter in vacuum really slows that process down.

Flat black aluminum shelves would probably work best, but they will also lose heat the fastest when the door is opened...
Insulating the window somehow will also help. An insulating blanket that you can flip out of the way to peek inside or something.

yeah why doesn't some one make a better double pane vacuumed glass door for these things? Maybe they do? And it's the gasket that loses the heat?

Peace,

RB

Not trying to pick on you at all ricky. You just hit all the topics with such good organization I was just being lazy and piggy backing in on your post. I have all the love and respect in the world for you.

I'm not positive if quartz will distribute the heat as even as aluminum will though for I fear it is too dense. But it would be better than just 108 coe glass, it would be better than 32 coe glass as well...I think? When working quartz with a torch it requires much more heat and is much brighter which is why you must wear atleast shade 5 glasses to help with the sodium flare effect but also because the IR that is radiating back out is soooo damn concentrated it will burn your eyeballs!

 

[Sunfire]

Right now I use the stock aluminum shelves with slabs of glass cut to size. I sandwich patties between parchment and then put the glass on top. You can see the patty expand out through the glass so you can stop pulling a vac if it gets too thin or close to the edge.

I have been thinking the past few days and as I am a big proponent of flipping, I think there is a better way to expose the bottom of the slab to let butane escape. I was thinking of taking different meshes of stainless mesh screen and having it coated with PTFE. With a fine enough mesh, you should be able to keep the oil from working into the mesh but still allow butane to move through it. After talking to Graywolf about it a bit, he informed me that there are PTFE membranes for micro-filtration. Perhaps if we could find sheets of this membrane to fit our shelves, we could just use wire mesh on frames to support the sheets and allow degassing from the bottom as well as the top of the slab.

That's a truly excellent idea. I wonder if the bubbling will be restricted by the mesh/membrane. Since there will be solid matter against it, and no room to expand, the oil might get pushed into the mesh/membrane and clog it up? I think it's worth an experiment!

 

[Chonkski]

Right now I use the stock aluminum shelves with slabs of glass cut to size. I sandwich patties between parchment and then put the glass on top. You can see the patty expand out through the glass so you can stop pulling a vac if it gets too thin or close to the edge.

I have been thinking the past few days and as I am a big proponent of flipping, I think there is a better way to expose the bottom of the slab to let butane escape. I was thinking of taking different meshes of stainless mesh screen and having it coated with PTFE. With a fine enough mesh, you should be able to keep the oil from working into the mesh but still allow butane to move through it. After talking to Graywolf about it a bit, he informed me that there are PTFE membranes for micro-filtration. Perhaps if we could find sheets of this membrane to fit our shelves, we could just use wire mesh on frames to support the sheets and allow degassing from the bottom as well as the top of the slab.

I do the same thing with my slabs. I believe that's how I achieved 0ppm in 24hr of purge time.

I also just started using mesh PTFE dehydrator sheets. They seem to let it breath from the bottom. I get a much quicker purge, because I had the exact same mindset of your post.


Check them out, the brand is Excalibur, and I got them on Amazon

 

[NorPene Solutions]

I do the same thing with my slabs. I believe that's how I achieved 0ppm in 24hr of purge time.

I also just started using mesh PTFE dehydrator sheets. They seem to let it breath from the bottom. I get a much quicker purge, because I had the exact same mindset of your post.


Check them out, the brand is Excalibur, and I got them on Amazon

Are these the sheets you use Chronkski?

Excalibur ParaFlexx™ Premium Non-Stick Sheets