Ace Malawi and Cycloptics Greenbeams: caught in the Under Current!
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timmur
Member
Quick update. I called Hydroponic Research (the Veg & Bloom guys) and they confirmed that supplemental cal/mag is required. This explains the mag deficiency. I read several times on various forums that Veg & Bloom was a complete nutrient and cal/mag was not required, but apparently this is wrong.
I decided to mainline all of the girls, although the amount of growth so far made this a very difficult decision. The amount of plant material I removed was insane. I had about 10 -12 nodes of growth and the first topping when mainlining is normally at the 5-6 node. I avoided topping them earlier due to the issues with getting them dialed in on the nutrients. Once the EC was lowered, growth became very vigorous and I had to wait until the weekend to work on them.
I was worried that they would be shocked from the amount of plant material that I removed, but they weren't phased at all. I'll post some more pics when I get a chance.
I decided to mainline all of the girls, although the amount of growth so far made this a very difficult decision. The amount of plant material I removed was insane. I had about 10 -12 nodes of growth and the first topping when mainlining is normally at the 5-6 node. I avoided topping them earlier due to the issues with getting them dialed in on the nutrients. Once the EC was lowered, growth became very vigorous and I had to wait until the weekend to work on them.
I was worried that they would be shocked from the amount of plant material that I removed, but they weren't phased at all. I'll post some more pics when I get a chance.
At the low EC's you're feeding, calmag supplementing should be a given. At normal EC's(1.0+), you'll probably have to supplement a little Mg, but not Ca.
timmur
Member
Yeah, unfortunately folks who have run it in the UC were saying it was nice not to have to worry about cal/mag supplementation and I bought into in spite of the general recommendation to run it. I was stupid for believing it.
Hi timmur,
It indeed looked like a Ca/Mg deficiency. I'm so glad to hear you are solving the feeding problems and that the plants are starting to grow properly
Sorry i didn't join the thread earlier, now onwards i will check your thread more frequently to help you in all i can ... but as we commented privately i don't have much experience with aero and hydro systems, i've been an organic soil grower for my whole life.
Looks like the plants are big enough to switch them to 12/12 as soon as they fully recover their health.
Thanks to all the growers around for the help and comradeship.
timmur, I'm sure this will be a successful grow, and that you will end up mastering your setup! Best wishes!
It indeed looked like a Ca/Mg deficiency. I'm so glad to hear you are solving the feeding problems and that the plants are starting to grow properly
Sorry i didn't join the thread earlier, now onwards i will check your thread more frequently to help you in all i can ... but as we commented privately i don't have much experience with aero and hydro systems, i've been an organic soil grower for my whole life.
Looks like the plants are big enough to switch them to 12/12 as soon as they fully recover their health.
Thanks to all the growers around for the help and comradeship.
timmur, I'm sure this will be a successful grow, and that you will end up mastering your setup! Best wishes!
so.... timmur are you going to top that tall plant? are you going to take close of these plants before blooming?
Optimism is only stupidity if you don't learn from the mistake. In coco, I found that calmag caused me all sorts of problems. Since I've switched to.5-1g/gal epsoms, my plants are much happier. The aroma of the growing plants in noticeably more pungent too. Maybe from the sulfur in the epsoms?
Glad you're going in the right direction. Keep it up
timmur
Member
Hey Avinash they are all topped twice now. One more to finish the mainline.
timmur
Member
Optimism is only stupidity if you don't learn from the mistake. In coco, I found that calmag caused me all sorts of problems. Since I've switched to.5-1g/gal epsoms, my plants are much happier. The aroma of the growing plants in noticeably more pungent too. Maybe from the sulfur in the epsoms?
Glad you're going in the right direction. Keep it up
Thanks EZ.
timmur
Member
Hi timmur,
It indeed looked like a Ca/Mg deficiency. I'm so glad to hear you are solving the feeding problems and that the plants are starting to grow properly
Sorry i didn't join the thread earlier, now onwards i will check your thread more frequently to help you in all i can ... but as we commented privately i don't have much experience with aero and hydro systems, i've been an organic soil grower for my whole life.
Looks like the plants are big enough to switch them to 12/12 as soon as they fully recover their health.
Thanks to all the growers around for the help and comradeship.
timmur, I'm sure this will be a successful grow, and that you will end up mastering your setup! Best wishes!
Hey dubi thanks for stopping by! Even though you've only gown organic soil, I bet you have plenty of helpful advice! I too appreciate everyone offering their advice and comments.
I'll be flipping them as soon as I top once last time to complete the manifolding (mainline).
timmur
Member
Here's another pic update. Very close to flip. Still struggling with nutes. It seems that the cal/mag dose was not enough, so I increased it.
timmur
Member
Hey timmur,
Glad to see it moving along. Just curious: Why calmag? I think just Mg would be more reasonable. You've got 20% more C than you do N. I'd say that unless you're having N def, that chances of a Ca def are highly unlikely...just my
So just epsom salts then?
my another 5cents
I'm sorry if it looks annoyingly
approximate NPK of these fertilizers 16/10/30. I think the difference is only in quantity of CN for different types of water. and the same proportion of magnesium sulfate for RO water , 1 - 2%
it is not the best profile for Malawi (and mostly others) on any system.
This is a terrible : 0.5 g \ l - 80-21-124. 1 g\ l - 160-43-249
I recommend to make the water about 100-150 ppm, it will provide the available levels of calcium and magnesium. But calcium in the veg. is recommended to keep about 100 ppm, its leaf turgor and a great lift for other elements. also Ca its great contrast to the high P and S, in the case of GHE fertilizers.(more stable Ph etc )
its difficult to provide 100 ppm of calcium without hitting nitrogen. But believe me, Malawi does not like more than 100 N
solution in the area N100-P60-R100(150) full enough for the veg season, + 80 ca + ~ 50-60 mg. its working on all type genetics i've tried ( 400-450 ppm total ) with such figures you can raise most harmful sativa, such as Neville Haze, Grinspoon, etc.
and as previously posted, you have a def. of phosphorus, and in my opinion high nitrogen / potassium impaired absorption of magnesium,iron. and micro elements
I'm sorry if it looks annoyingly
approximate NPK of these fertilizers 16/10/30. I think the difference is only in quantity of CN for different types of water. and the same proportion of magnesium sulfate for RO water , 1 - 2%
it is not the best profile for Malawi (and mostly others) on any system.
This is a terrible : 0.5 g \ l - 80-21-124. 1 g\ l - 160-43-249
I recommend to make the water about 100-150 ppm, it will provide the available levels of calcium and magnesium. But calcium in the veg. is recommended to keep about 100 ppm, its leaf turgor and a great lift for other elements. also Ca its great contrast to the high P and S, in the case of GHE fertilizers.(more stable Ph etc )
its difficult to provide 100 ppm of calcium without hitting nitrogen. But believe me, Malawi does not like more than 100 N
solution in the area N100-P60-R100(150) full enough for the veg season, + 80 ca + ~ 50-60 mg. its working on all type genetics i've tried ( 400-450 ppm total ) with such figures you can raise most harmful sativa, such as Neville Haze, Grinspoon, etc.
and as previously posted, you have a def. of phosphorus, and in my opinion high nitrogen / potassium impaired absorption of magnesium,iron. and micro elements
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I've been much happier with the results of just epsoms vs calmag in my coco garden. 1/8-1/4tsp per gallon seems to work fine for me, YMMV. I'm reasonably certain that adding more Ca was causing uptake problems with other elements, again YMMV.
I am not going to tell you what you are short and what you are not. But I will offer some info that may help you if what was posted above is what you need.
In the picture above is two types of cal/mag additives. Both are vastly different in what they supply though.
The bottle on the left is made with calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. If you can handle the extra nitrogen this bottle is OK to use. But if you want to limit the amount of nitrogen then the bottle on the right is better. It is made with calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. It has no nitrogen.
So the bottle additives on the left dissolves in water easily with nothing being added. The bottle additives on the right will not dissolve in water that has a normal PH. To get it to disolve they add phosphoric acid to bring the PH down to around 4. Been awhile so it could be lower or a little higher. But the PH is real low.
So if what was mentioned above is correct and you need more phosphorus, calcium, and magnesium the bottle on the right is what you should use. It hits all three things with out the nitrogen. But be ready to add a PH up should you use it.
Like I said I am not saying you need anything just offering a option should you need it.
In the picture above is two types of cal/mag additives. Both are vastly different in what they supply though.
The bottle on the left is made with calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. If you can handle the extra nitrogen this bottle is OK to use. But if you want to limit the amount of nitrogen then the bottle on the right is better. It is made with calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. It has no nitrogen.
So the bottle additives on the left dissolves in water easily with nothing being added. The bottle additives on the right will not dissolve in water that has a normal PH. To get it to disolve they add phosphoric acid to bring the PH down to around 4. Been awhile so it could be lower or a little higher. But the PH is real low.
So if what was mentioned above is correct and you need more phosphorus, calcium, and magnesium the bottle on the right is what you should use. It hits all three things with out the nitrogen. But be ready to add a PH up should you use it.
Like I said I am not saying you need anything just offering a option should you need it.
timmur
Member
Thanks for the info on the cal/mag and the epsom. I'm going to switch nutrient lines this weekend to Current Culture's. The girls are doing pretty good.
timmur
Member
my another 5cents
I'm sorry if it looks annoyingly
approximate NPK of these fertilizers 16/10/30. I think the difference is only in quantity of CN for different types of water. and the same proportion of magnesium sulfate for RO water , 1 - 2%
it is not the best profile for Malawi (and mostly others) on any system.
This is a terrible : 0.5 g \ l - 80-21-124. 1 g\ l - 160-43-249
I recommend to make the water about 100-150 ppm, it will provide the available levels of calcium and magnesium. But calcium in the veg. is recommended to keep about 100 ppm, its leaf turgor and a great lift for other elements. also Ca its great contrast to the high P and S, in the case of GHE fertilizers.(more stable Ph etc )
its difficult to provide 100 ppm of calcium without hitting nitrogen. But believe me, Malawi does not like more than 100 N
solution in the area N100-P60-R100(150) full enough for the veg season, + 80 ca + ~ 50-60 mg. its working on all type genetics i've tried ( 400-450 ppm total ) with such figures you can raise most harmful sativa, such as Neville Haze, Grinspoon, etc.
and as previously posted, you have a def. of phosphorus, and in my opinion high nitrogen / potassium impaired absorption of magnesium,iron. and micro elements
Thanks bwoyrude. I just switched out nutrients to Current Solutions and will now have the flexibility to adjust the ratios of macros and micros to eliminate deficiencies.
I also flipped them. I wanted to get them dialed in completely before the flip, but I really couldn't wait any longer. I'm at about 350 PPM on the 500 scale and used the following feeding schedule for the first week of bloom (same ratios, but slightly lower levels).
CS UC Roots
Hypochlorous Acid
A multipurpose root zone optimizer that uses proprietary chemistry to aid in mineral descaling and the removal of potentially harmful biofilms in nutrient reservoirs. By reducing the potential habitat for plant pathogens, UC ROOTS has been shown to aid in root development.
CS Veg A
NPK: 5 - 0 - 0.3
Ammonium Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Iron EDTA
Copper EDTA
Manganese EDTA
Sodium Molybdate
Sodium Borate
Zinc EDTA
CS Veg B
NPK: 1.3 - 2 - 5.9
Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate
CS Bloom A
NPK: 3.7 - 0 - 3
Ammonium Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Iron EDTA
Copper EDTA
Manganese EDTA
Sodium Molybdate
Sodium Borate
Zinc EDTA
CS Bloom B
NPK: 0.9 - 4.8 - 6.2
Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate
CS Bud Buster Early
NPK: 1 - 3.7 - 2.6
Ammonium Phosphate
Potassium phosphate
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Nitrate
timmur
Member
Dude, thanks for this info! I'm currently using Botanicare's cal/mag that has calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. I'm going to get some of the other stuff you mentioned. Thanks again!
