If you don't use a cold trap between your cold boiling and your pump, the crankcase oil will be diluted and must be changed often or it will wipe out the pump.
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Absolute Amber from Banana Silver Ladyboys
- Thread starter jump117
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If you don't use a cold trap between your cold boiling and your pump, the crankcase oil will be diluted and must be changed often or it will wipe out the pump.
Gray Wolf, why not 117 ? saved two degrees..
I pulled a vacuum on some oil and started raising the temperature until the forming bubbles broke free and the pool readily purged. I opened the chamber and read the temperature with a laser pyrometer, and it read 115F.
It may be 113,114F or 116F as well, but it is right in that ball park and that is as close as I can report my exact reading.
I never depend totally on temperature or time formulas, as all material is different, but just set the temperature at 115F and watch what happens.
If it looks like more temperature is required, I turn it up, and if it looks like it is getting too hot, I take it off the heat.
paperchaser825
Active member
So cold trap and I'm good?
Yes, but you still have to change the pump oil often, because the trap won't catch everything.
CannaScience
New member
Ahaha jump your posts always make me smile
Hello fellow Euro friend
I just wanted to say a big thankyou to jump, gw, gk and all the other great folk who've helped along the way in this thread. Rigour. Science. Passion. Patience. Jewels of holy amber nectar unlocked by the will to succeed and discover. You guys are amazing.
I more or less have it memorised, every picture saved, and I point every person I can get hold of in it's direction.
This is the Absolute Mecca my friends, and I thank you for it, and I am glad for all the knowledge I have been able to pass on to others on my journey. I'll try to find some pics one day soon.
r00st3rsauc3
New member
BIG thanks to all scientists on this thread!
Jump, I wish you had been my high school chemistry teacher. We would have made some fun extracts of subtropical plants
Graywolf, thanks for patient answering, guidance and sharing your knowledge.
All others who have experimented you have helped to build this thread and it is BADAZZ!
Jump, I wish you had been my high school chemistry teacher. We would have made some fun extracts of subtropical plants
Graywolf, thanks for patient answering, guidance and sharing your knowledge.
All others who have experimented you have helped to build this thread and it is BADAZZ!
r00st3rsauc3
New member
Did that first post to see if the system would let me post....
SO...
I've done some extracts recently cuz some of my ish smelled like hay. No worries, I'm over it cuz I've been smoking some fire oil.
First, I made some iso hash and was getting lovely results on the first wash: dry, powdery scrape that only cakes up under pressure.
Now, due to this thread and the mad-smart scientists, I've been making some oil. It's not amber yet but I'm getting there. And here's the rub, the very first batch was pure amber: clear, lovely color, and it had the right sound when i would throw it against the plate. Yeah, somehow the I can hear the sound of the quality (anyone else?).
Since that first batch, been trying to reproduce how it came to be and have failed.
Made a tube out of a hot sauce bottle. Cut off the end. it's the perfect shape and size. been measuring more recently to try to replicate and alter single variables and it holds 12g slightly packed, dried ground material. Yes, I f'ed up and ground up all the material. Whatever, I'm def going to try the fresh frozen.
So, batch 1 was perfect, amber shatter BHO made with no secondary alcohol. Only spray butane and quick evap over double boiler. Unfortunately, I don't know what the temp was... ):
Batches 2 and 3 were decent but not the same clarity, color or sound of #1. (dayum, we need a rating scale like the diamond people haha )
Batch 4 was much bigger cuz we packed the shit out of the tube. But it had bubbles. I'm still not sure what the bubbles are from. Entrapped air? butane? so I put it on the double boiler and watched the reaction. man, that shit took a long time!
Here's what I observed: After the bigger bubbles were gone, there was still some reaction taking place as the bubbling continued but they decreased in size to being almost microscopic. After, o, like 2 hours or so, something changed. All of the sudden the surface of the oil was like a smooth sheet of glass and I could see the reflection of the light on the hood of the stove. I immediately turned off the heat.
So, I've since concluded that the small bubbles were CO2 from decarboxylation of the THCA. Here's another thing: I don't like the whole idea of whipping the product to make butter. Observing the surface of the oils I've made, as lines are drawn through, more bubbles are created. Just like beating egg whites to make meringue, that shit's all air. Plus, with all the entrained atmospheric oxygen, it's no wonder it degrades quickly. It's oxidizing and decarbing from inside out. But, there comes a certain point when drawing a line through the oil does not produce bubbles. And it seems like some stirring is necessary. cooking again but the difference between folding whipped cream into a batter and beating it. In this case, the idea is to do that thing Jump said about changing the solvent-surface barrier.
All of the oil I've made has been fire. Like one hit makes me feel like I'm spinning in my chair.
So, I tried to do the double winterization extraction using 91% iso as I've got some on hand. (I want to try ethanol soon.) Again, I realize that much of my problem making shatter may be the ground up, dried, shitty to start with material, BUT, damnit, I made it perfect the very first time.
With the alcohol extraction, I triple filtered it through one filter first, two filters and another two filters. This was done in the freezer to keep the temps down. The product was not discernibly different than the other ones. Looking at it in the jar, there is no color or clarity difference. I did do something different on this than previous. I evaporated the alcohol solution over a 130F double boiler. From 12g start, I made 0.3g oil.
So, I have some questions, and I'm not through the thread yet, but dayum there's a lot of info in here.
How is jump decarbing over steam bath without wiping out the terps?
Or is he?
Jump, do you use the digital pyrometer to know when to stop the reaction, or do you just know already?
What is the optimal temperature to evaporate the solution? I saw someone say that x temp = shatter, y temp = something, z temp = oil, but from my experience with the 130F double boil, the results are the same. Incidentally, I observed the same small bubbles and final change in consistency over the 130F as I did on the 200F first runs. BUT, I didn't smell all the lovely terps vaporizing. (Gawd, I want to make that smell my deodorant!)
Does iso evap differently than ethanol?
SO...
I've done some extracts recently cuz some of my ish smelled like hay. No worries, I'm over it cuz I've been smoking some fire oil.
First, I made some iso hash and was getting lovely results on the first wash: dry, powdery scrape that only cakes up under pressure.
Now, due to this thread and the mad-smart scientists, I've been making some oil. It's not amber yet but I'm getting there. And here's the rub, the very first batch was pure amber: clear, lovely color, and it had the right sound when i would throw it against the plate. Yeah, somehow the I can hear the sound of the quality (anyone else?).
Since that first batch, been trying to reproduce how it came to be and have failed.
Made a tube out of a hot sauce bottle. Cut off the end. it's the perfect shape and size. been measuring more recently to try to replicate and alter single variables and it holds 12g slightly packed, dried ground material. Yes, I f'ed up and ground up all the material. Whatever, I'm def going to try the fresh frozen.
So, batch 1 was perfect, amber shatter BHO made with no secondary alcohol. Only spray butane and quick evap over double boiler. Unfortunately, I don't know what the temp was... ):
Batches 2 and 3 were decent but not the same clarity, color or sound of #1. (dayum, we need a rating scale like the diamond people haha )
Batch 4 was much bigger cuz we packed the shit out of the tube. But it had bubbles. I'm still not sure what the bubbles are from. Entrapped air? butane? so I put it on the double boiler and watched the reaction. man, that shit took a long time!
Here's what I observed: After the bigger bubbles were gone, there was still some reaction taking place as the bubbling continued but they decreased in size to being almost microscopic. After, o, like 2 hours or so, something changed. All of the sudden the surface of the oil was like a smooth sheet of glass and I could see the reflection of the light on the hood of the stove. I immediately turned off the heat.
So, I've since concluded that the small bubbles were CO2 from decarboxylation of the THCA. Here's another thing: I don't like the whole idea of whipping the product to make butter. Observing the surface of the oils I've made, as lines are drawn through, more bubbles are created. Just like beating egg whites to make meringue, that shit's all air. Plus, with all the entrained atmospheric oxygen, it's no wonder it degrades quickly. It's oxidizing and decarbing from inside out. But, there comes a certain point when drawing a line through the oil does not produce bubbles. And it seems like some stirring is necessary. cooking again but the difference between folding whipped cream into a batter and beating it. In this case, the idea is to do that thing Jump said about changing the solvent-surface barrier.
All of the oil I've made has been fire. Like one hit makes me feel like I'm spinning in my chair.
So, I tried to do the double winterization extraction using 91% iso as I've got some on hand. (I want to try ethanol soon.) Again, I realize that much of my problem making shatter may be the ground up, dried, shitty to start with material, BUT, damnit, I made it perfect the very first time.
With the alcohol extraction, I triple filtered it through one filter first, two filters and another two filters. This was done in the freezer to keep the temps down. The product was not discernibly different than the other ones. Looking at it in the jar, there is no color or clarity difference. I did do something different on this than previous. I evaporated the alcohol solution over a 130F double boiler. From 12g start, I made 0.3g oil.
So, I have some questions, and I'm not through the thread yet, but dayum there's a lot of info in here.
How is jump decarbing over steam bath without wiping out the terps?
Or is he?
Jump, do you use the digital pyrometer to know when to stop the reaction, or do you just know already?
What is the optimal temperature to evaporate the solution? I saw someone say that x temp = shatter, y temp = something, z temp = oil, but from my experience with the 130F double boil, the results are the same. Incidentally, I observed the same small bubbles and final change in consistency over the 130F as I did on the 200F first runs. BUT, I didn't smell all the lovely terps vaporizing. (Gawd, I want to make that smell my deodorant!)
Does iso evap differently than ethanol?
r00st3rsauc3
New member
after doing some more extractions, I think that iso is VERY different than ethanol. With ethanol, there are no bubbles. No small bubbles, No big bubbles, no bubbles. I am no longer going to use iso for extractions of any kind.
I took some old qwiso hash made before I took the leap into butane/etoh and dissolved it in ethanol, winterized (only to 1bout 14F, my freezer sux), multiple filtered. Double boilered at 200F. many, many large bubbles were observed. drawing lines in the surface with the tool would make bubbles but not doing so also made bubbles, but the formation was different. when lines were drawn, bubbles would form right by the 'valley' but the bubbles then progressed with time to the 'peaks'. even after all big bubbles were gone, small surface disturbances were observed like microscopic bubbles breaking the surface. It is quite apparent when the reaction is completely and drawing lines or vigorous agitation produces no more bubbles.
--
I did three more butane/etoh extractions with winterization. Results are good but inconsistent. yield from 12 g run with 70 g of butane = 0.3g; 12g with 115g of butane = .4; 10g with 90g butane = .3.
the first (my 11th extract) was a straight amber crystal; 12 is butter; 13 was amber but cloudy and sandy, like shards of glass breaking off.
why the texture difference on #12? why did it turn to butter? it might be because I agitated the butane with the digital instant read thermometer trying to see what the temp was?
fixing to run #14 which was some trim, fresh frozen. my first try at following jumps method (almost exactly, still going to use double boiler instead of sauce pan.)
I took some old qwiso hash made before I took the leap into butane/etoh and dissolved it in ethanol, winterized (only to 1bout 14F, my freezer sux), multiple filtered. Double boilered at 200F. many, many large bubbles were observed. drawing lines in the surface with the tool would make bubbles but not doing so also made bubbles, but the formation was different. when lines were drawn, bubbles would form right by the 'valley' but the bubbles then progressed with time to the 'peaks'. even after all big bubbles were gone, small surface disturbances were observed like microscopic bubbles breaking the surface. It is quite apparent when the reaction is completely and drawing lines or vigorous agitation produces no more bubbles.
--
I did three more butane/etoh extractions with winterization. Results are good but inconsistent. yield from 12 g run with 70 g of butane = 0.3g; 12g with 115g of butane = .4; 10g with 90g butane = .3.
the first (my 11th extract) was a straight amber crystal; 12 is butter; 13 was amber but cloudy and sandy, like shards of glass breaking off.
why the texture difference on #12? why did it turn to butter? it might be because I agitated the butane with the digital instant read thermometer trying to see what the temp was?
fixing to run #14 which was some trim, fresh frozen. my first try at following jumps method (almost exactly, still going to use double boiler instead of sauce pan.)
gunnaknow
Active member
R00st, there are too many variables involved to say why each of your batches has come out differently. A difference in the age of the bud can produce extracts of differing consistency, selecting the finest powder at the bottom versus the larger grounds at the top can produce extracts of differing consistency, different extraction times and solvent to bud ratios can produce extracts of differing consistency, etc. It's good for you to produce inconsistent results to begin with because it will help you to gain valuable experience. You'll soon gain a sense of intuition as to what works best. Jump has put alot of time and energy into helping the members here but he can't answer everyone's questions all of the time, it can take alot out of you. Most of your questions will be answered by reading his thread through fully, as most of these issues have been raised before. If you use finely ground bud and ISO, then obviously you will produce different results to his. If you follow what he did you'll soon be producing similar results, with a little practice. The best of luck to you my friend.
Young material makes purdier oil than old dessicated material. We extract above 10% water content, and around 25%, or above for the best monoterpene retention. If above 25%, we also freeze the material and butane.
For bragging rights extracts, lightly break up the buds, but don't grind. Use warm tap water in the water bath for the first initial purge.
Do the final purge in a film no thicker than about 1/16", preferably in a vacuum at 115F and -29.5" Hg, but if at atmospheric pressure, around 130/140F. Remove when the larger solvent bubbles cease.
For bragging rights extracts, lightly break up the buds, but don't grind. Use warm tap water in the water bath for the first initial purge.
Do the final purge in a film no thicker than about 1/16", preferably in a vacuum at 115F and -29.5" Hg, but if at atmospheric pressure, around 130/140F. Remove when the larger solvent bubbles cease.
analogcricket
Member
GW,
ive tried to winterize bho using 190% everclear and the final product still says sappy.. what am i doing wrong?
ive tried to winterize bho using 190% everclear and the final product still says sappy.. what am i doing wrong?
gunnaknow
Active member
Please allow me to take up some of the slack while you relax over Christmas, GW. Analog, three possible reasons why an absolute may remain sappy are:
1) Incomplete purging
2) Using fully decarboxylated oleoresin
3) Using material with an unusually high terpene content
It could also be a combination of more than one of these. The first one can be rectified. The second can't but sometimes a fully decarboxylated absolute is desirable, such as for use in edibles. The third shouldn't need to be rectified because a high terpene content is usually desirable. If it's down to incomplete purging then purging it further in thin films will greatly help. Ideally with a vacuum but a double boiler or a prolonged purge at room temperature will also be fine. I hope that this was helpful. Feel free to add anything if you wish, GW. Merry Yuletide everyone!
gunna
1) Incomplete purging
2) Using fully decarboxylated oleoresin
3) Using material with an unusually high terpene content
It could also be a combination of more than one of these. The first one can be rectified. The second can't but sometimes a fully decarboxylated absolute is desirable, such as for use in edibles. The third shouldn't need to be rectified because a high terpene content is usually desirable. If it's down to incomplete purging then purging it further in thin films will greatly help. Ideally with a vacuum but a double boiler or a prolonged purge at room temperature will also be fine. I hope that this was helpful. Feel free to add anything if you wish, GW. Merry Yuletide everyone!
gunna
What GK said!
Sometimes all the terpenes are too, too much, so you may be able to reduce them some too and still have a killer extract.
The thinner the film, the faster and easier the purge.
May I also add my own best wishes for a good holiday and a prosperous joyful new year for all?
Sometimes all the terpenes are too, too much, so you may be able to reduce them some too and still have a killer extract.
The thinner the film, the faster and easier the purge.
May I also add my own best wishes for a good holiday and a prosperous joyful new year for all?
B
BredForMeds
hey gray wolf.. can I ask .. if u freeze butane.. doesn't the pressure inside the bottle go down.. making the people who aren't running a closed system have less pressure to shoot threw the tube? or does this not matter? I freeze my bottles.. but I ran out.. and had a friend stop by with another bottle.. not frozen.. and it seemed that this non frozen bottle.. ended up sending a much more powerful spray threw the tube and out the other end?
is this a problem or ? should we keep freezing our cans?
is this a problem or ? should we keep freezing our cans?
CannaScience
New member
Keep freezing, it's the best way .
Even just using a tube, you can imagine it to be a closed system of sorts. The butane goes in one end (just flows out of the can like water when adequately chilled), and there's only one place for it to go: down through the tube and out the other side through the filter end. Cleaner, safer extraction. Although my personal favourite is superchilled quick-wash butane soak in thermos/cafetiere, super convenient and you can run almost any amount without needing a bunch of different tubes.
Whatever you choose to do, whatever the weather, keep on freezing
.Even just using a tube, you can imagine it to be a closed system of sorts. The butane goes in one end (just flows out of the can like water when adequately chilled), and there's only one place for it to go: down through the tube and out the other side through the filter end. Cleaner, safer extraction. Although my personal favourite is superchilled quick-wash butane soak in thermos/cafetiere, super convenient and you can run almost any amount without needing a bunch of different tubes.
Whatever you choose to do, whatever the weather, keep on freezing
Anyone tried double BHO washes. I tried this with some old stash from 2010 and it really helps with the potency. I do the butane soak with one container, then after 1 - 1 1/2 hours I strain and pour the contents into another container filled with the same herb (no need to filter this). I do the rest of the process in the usual way: after another 1 - 1 1/2 hours strain and filter the second BHO wash; purge it; add the ethanol; after 24 - 48 hours filter and purge the ethanol wash. Using one tube of the 300ml butane, there is plenty for two washes. Next I am going to try a triple wash. There should be enough liquid left for another wash.
T
taio
Good evening everyine,i jumped into this thread because i need some advice regarding Jump's tech soaking the material into a bowl with butane outside in the cold.
Yesterday i decided to try this tech cause we had around -20 C in the evenings so i did a 1 hour soak and stir tech which after i purged the most of butane outside and came inside the house to continue purging the rest of butane on the double bath,turned out not so much oil but more wax a like form or rather sad hard material and it looks like it still has lots of butane in it.
Purged it for approx. 2hours temp never passed 160F on the stove and i checked every few minutes temp of bho with IR thermo and it never showed more than 151F.after 2 hours when i realised the material changes its shape into sugary or wax i stopped purging.
I.d appreciate if anyone can give me any insight or answers to why this happened? I've done the regular extraction tube tech probally 20 times or so and never got into this issue,i was excited to try Jump's tech and now i dont know what i've done wrong.
Material used was indoor rockstar and bubba only buds not grinded at all no leafs or shake and butane was Colibri.
28 grams of buds and 3 cans of colibri.
Thanks in advance.
Yesterday i decided to try this tech cause we had around -20 C in the evenings so i did a 1 hour soak and stir tech which after i purged the most of butane outside and came inside the house to continue purging the rest of butane on the double bath,turned out not so much oil but more wax a like form or rather sad hard material and it looks like it still has lots of butane in it.
Purged it for approx. 2hours temp never passed 160F on the stove and i checked every few minutes temp of bho with IR thermo and it never showed more than 151F.after 2 hours when i realised the material changes its shape into sugary or wax i stopped purging.
I.d appreciate if anyone can give me any insight or answers to why this happened? I've done the regular extraction tube tech probally 20 times or so and never got into this issue,i was excited to try Jump's tech and now i dont know what i've done wrong.
Material used was indoor rockstar and bubba only buds not grinded at all no leafs or shake and butane was Colibri.
28 grams of buds and 3 cans of colibri.
Thanks in advance.
Attachments
That looks like such a nice sugar, more like it went to crystal than wax, maybe congratulations?
T
taio
Thank you
but i still could smell and see small bubbles of butane,im not sure it is healthy for use yet.Thank you for cheering up
