Thanks for the reply. I guess you're right, I should measure ethanol from the final weight of the evaporated concrete. This will be my first try at AA, and I don't have a lot of material to work with, so I want to make sure I'm covering all my bases. I can record the tare weight of my evaporation flask so I know how much bho I end up with. Jump, thanks again man, you've changed the way I look at hash forever! Would appreciate any words of wisdom for my first run. How many mL of ethanol should I use per gram of concrete?
Absolute Amber from Banana Silver Ladyboys
- Thread starter jump117
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I wanna say 30 to 50ml, the more you use the less end product will be lost in filters.
Thanks hammalamma! It's nice to see someone else from the Bay making extractions as beautiful as yours. You are one of the people that's been an invaluable asset to my research into extraction procedures in general. Just set up for small batches now, but once the harvest up north is ready, I'm gonna get all the necessary equipment to run significantly larger scale. Seems like you're one or the best people here to talk about that with. Thanks again, bro.
Hey watashi! Добро пожаловать!
I am very glad to finally meet you here! Wonderful first post and beautiful photos, thank you!
Please indicate how much alcohol you used per gram of concrete and how you produce evaporation.
Right said hammalamma – “the more you use the less end product will be lost in filters”.
I did not limit the consumption of ethanol, measured by eye, probably about 30-50 ml / g , and a little more for washing the filter.
Suppose that 10 grams of frozen flowers give 2 grams of Oleoresin that means around 60-100 ml EtOH.
Many will say that it is very much, I often read that people are spending less, but I have not tried to minimize the consumption of ethanol.
The consistency of the solution should provide suitable filtering, dense syrup solution is filtered slowly and leaves more resin on filter.
Right said eyezla – “ I added more alcohol, which thinned out the solution better and allowed it to pass through the filter much easier”.
Although, much more resin remains on the first filter after filtration of butane solution.
You can wash the resin of the filter after butane in the first place in even pure ethanol and then dissolved in it the main portion of the resin.
I sincerely wish you success in the first attempt, and I hope to see a report on the results.
Hey eyezla!
I think you’re absolutely right, I also after you think the best decision is to dissolve 0.5-1 g in more thinner and evape on double-boiler to check is it hard or not.
I hope you will tell us what you get.
I am very glad to finally meet you here! Wonderful first post and beautiful photos, thank you!
Please indicate how much alcohol you used per gram of concrete and how you produce evaporation.
Hey Terpentin!
Right said hammalamma – “the more you use the less end product will be lost in filters”.
I did not limit the consumption of ethanol, measured by eye, probably about 30-50 ml / g , and a little more for washing the filter.
Suppose that 10 grams of frozen flowers give 2 grams of Oleoresin that means around 60-100 ml EtOH.
Many will say that it is very much, I often read that people are spending less, but I have not tried to minimize the consumption of ethanol.
The consistency of the solution should provide suitable filtering, dense syrup solution is filtered slowly and leaves more resin on filter.
Right said eyezla – “ I added more alcohol, which thinned out the solution better and allowed it to pass through the filter much easier”.
Although, much more resin remains on the first filter after filtration of butane solution.
You can wash the resin of the filter after butane in the first place in even pure ethanol and then dissolved in it the main portion of the resin.
I sincerely wish you success in the first attempt, and I hope to see a report on the results.
Hey eyezla!
I think you’re absolutely right, I also after you think the best decision is to dissolve 0.5-1 g in more thinner and evape on double-boiler to check is it hard or not.
I hope you will tell us what you get.
ethanol is fairly expensive and hard to get in my area, so i have to use the minimum possible i use 50ml per 3.3g and get a perfect liquid consistancy i lose possibly .8 per 3.3, after evaporated its clear as glass and completly non stick. i had recently made 200g batch left all the pieces in the sun and it turned into a large hard slab of glass no clouds or bubbles
Jump! Thank you for the speedy and thorough response. This should go pretty smoothly now. I'll make sure to try and post pictures of the results.Hey watashi! Добро пожаловать!
I am very glad to finally meet you here! Wonderful first post and beautiful photos, thank you!
Please indicate how much alcohol you used per gram of concrete and how you produce evaporation.
Hey Terpentin!
Right said hammalamma – “the more you use the less end product will be lost in filters”.
I did not limit the consumption of ethanol, measured by eye, probably about 30-50 ml / g , and a little more for washing the filter.
Suppose that 10 grams of frozen flowers give 2 grams of Oleoresin that means around 60-100 ml EtOH.
Many will say that it is very much, I often read that people are spending less, but I have not tried to minimize the consumption of ethanol.
The consistency of the solution should provide suitable filtering, dense syrup solution is filtered slowly and leaves more resin on filter.
Right said eyezla – “ I added more alcohol, which thinned out the solution better and allowed it to pass through the filter much easier”.
Although, much more resin remains on the first filter after filtration of butane solution.
You can wash the resin of the filter after butane in the first place in even pure ethanol and then dissolved in it the main portion of the resin.
I sincerely wish you success in the first attempt, and I hope to see a report on the results.
Hey eyezla!
I think you’re absolutely right, I also after you think the best decision is to dissolve 0.5-1 g in more thinner and evape on double-boiler to check is it hard or not.
I hope you will tell us what you get.
Hey slimjoint!
They say ethanol is not quite difficult to recycle in the kitchen.
My experience is not enough to give detailed advice
on how to manufacture or purchase the compact version.
EtOH =50ml, BHO = 3.3g
EtOH / BHO = 15.15 ml/g enough when ethanol is expensive,
EtOH / BHO = 30-50 ml/g can be when ethanol is not sorry.
Hey Terpentin!
EtOH / BHO = 15-50 ml/g that means 10 grams of frozen flowers require 30-100 ml EtOH
Whats up guys, Im back to report the results of my experiment. For those of you just tuning in, I was having trouble with my AA not hardening properly, staying to "oily". Now if it were cooler temps, or if I move really fast, I can manipulate this consistency with my hands, but it is for sure much stickier than batches I used to run. A few people speculated that maybe I was trying to evaporate too much at once, so I did and experiment where I re-dissolved 1g of my extract back into alcohol and evaporate this minor amount to see if it dried better. (Keeping in mind that in the past, I have successfully finished purging decently large batches with a vacuum when it was way too thick in the pyrex, so batch size wasn't really an issue before).
Well Im frustrated to report that the 1 gram batch did not dry better. And to complicate matters more, I got a whole new result to speculate on. My pyrex somehow dried differently this time. I DO have a theory tho. SO here is what happened, 1st of all, the consistency did NOT change. It is still very tacky.
The interesting part is that it dried in a way I did not expect. Usually the alcohol evaporates off leaving a yellow/gold tint evenly across the pyrex, with varying degrees of darkness in the thicker and thinner areas. You guys Know what I mean right? Well that happened on part of the pyrex. But on the rest of the pan, the oil beaded up, leaving polkadots of oil scattered on top of an overall clear glass area. It didn't dry the same way as usual. Has anyone ever seen this or have any speculation as to why it dried this way?
My theory is this: I saw this one time before when I put a fan on my pyrex to speed the drying. When I did, it had dried in this same droplet type fashion, and I wasn't into it so I decided not to do that anymore. I speculated that I had made it dry too fast.(?) I didn't think that could happen, but this was how I thought it was possible. I was using 95% ethanol, meaning it is still 5% water. And Alcohol evaporates much faster than water. So under slow moderate conditions, the h20 can some how evaporate with the alcohol easier. But if there is too much wind, (and now this theory includes heat), then it takes off the alcohol super fast, leaving the 5% water still trapped in. (one would think that the vacuum stage could purge off water just as easy as the remaining alcohol, but maybe it is infact harder to get out on its own?)
Anyway, I don't know if this is even related to why my consistency changed, but it is for sure presents a lot more questions....great. Ha, Well I guess my experiments will continue. Lemme know what you think about these new results and my potential theory about trapping the water if the alc is purged too fast. Has anyone used a fan to dry their solution, did you get similar results?
Well Im frustrated to report that the 1 gram batch did not dry better. And to complicate matters more, I got a whole new result to speculate on. My pyrex somehow dried differently this time. I DO have a theory tho. SO here is what happened, 1st of all, the consistency did NOT change. It is still very tacky.
The interesting part is that it dried in a way I did not expect. Usually the alcohol evaporates off leaving a yellow/gold tint evenly across the pyrex, with varying degrees of darkness in the thicker and thinner areas. You guys Know what I mean right? Well that happened on part of the pyrex. But on the rest of the pan, the oil beaded up, leaving polkadots of oil scattered on top of an overall clear glass area. It didn't dry the same way as usual. Has anyone ever seen this or have any speculation as to why it dried this way?
My theory is this: I saw this one time before when I put a fan on my pyrex to speed the drying. When I did, it had dried in this same droplet type fashion, and I wasn't into it so I decided not to do that anymore. I speculated that I had made it dry too fast.(?) I didn't think that could happen, but this was how I thought it was possible. I was using 95% ethanol, meaning it is still 5% water. And Alcohol evaporates much faster than water. So under slow moderate conditions, the h20 can some how evaporate with the alcohol easier. But if there is too much wind, (and now this theory includes heat), then it takes off the alcohol super fast, leaving the 5% water still trapped in. (one would think that the vacuum stage could purge off water just as easy as the remaining alcohol, but maybe it is infact harder to get out on its own?)
Anyway, I don't know if this is even related to why my consistency changed, but it is for sure presents a lot more questions....great. Ha, Well I guess my experiments will continue. Lemme know what you think about these new results and my potential theory about trapping the water if the alc is purged too fast. Has anyone used a fan to dry their solution, did you get similar results?
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When oil beads up like that in the pyrex purging AA, I feel it's from access moisture. I have blown on my ethanol/oil solution towards the end of purging, it gets a bit cloudy and then beads up like you pictured. This is more than likely from the moisture in my breath. It has also happen on really humid days.
What temp are you purging at?
What temp are you purging at?
Hmm, that is interesting. It builds the case for my theory about water being left behind. How was your consistency after that?
The temp Im purging at I don't have exactly. I use a black seedling mat. Usually its around 80-90, but on days when the room is really warm, i could see it getting up to 110. Tho I am gone during peak heat in the day so I havent measured for sure. When I was vac purging at the end, I will heat it up around 110 tho before vac'ing. I got frustrated with this batch and took a small bit and seriously cooked it at like 160 just to see what happened. Nothing really. Taste and appearance still the same, didn't purge off any more anything, whether that be alcohol or just water, even the 160 didn't evaporate anything else.
Also a side note question. You mentioned your solution turning cloudy when you blew on it, potentially from moister. Does anyone know what that is about? Im sure you have all noticed when your cleaning your pyrex that once the thc, alcohol, and h20 mix, it gets cloudy. If you add thc to alcohol it doesnt get cloudy, if you add alcohol to water, it doesnt get cloudy, if you add thc to water it doesn't get cloudy, but if all 3 are mixed, that reaction occurs where maybe a precipitate forms? I have always wondered what the mechanics behind this are. Does anyone know?
I'm pretty sure jump purges at 173f to get alcohol out then 212f to get water out. I think he showed pics way earlier in this thread.
That makes sense, only thing is it seems pretty hot for the sake of terp preservation. I have found that at 150-160, even hard amber gets melty and allows bubbles to rise. Also I dont know exactly how to explain it scientifically, but putting things in a vacuum reduces atmospheric pressure, and therefore lowers vaporization points/boiling points. Ive even seen a video where water boiled at room temp under a really deep vacuum.
Maybe I need to find the equation and crunch the numbers just to make sure Im getting to the right conditions, but when I heat it up and then vac it, it "looks" like its boiling for easily 60 seconds. So it seems that combining moderate heat, along with the reduced atmospheric pressure (vacuum state) does achieve the necessary conditions to allow for vaporization. I am only speculating tho, I don't know for sure. Either way, this heat/vac technique I've been using has worked many times in the past for my final stage of purging. So if it is somehow insufficient, then Im not sure how I was getting AA this way so many times in the past.
Usually if it isn't a large batch tho, it WILL evaporate enough to be hard and brittle right out of the pyrex. And even that didn't work with the 1gram re-evaporation. So it is either a whole different variable entirely, or the initial evaporation in the pyrex needs to be re-examined as to why I got the "beading effect" and how that is affecting my consistency.
Hey Jump! Went through the initial butane extraction and ethanol/oleoresin freezing. Will take it out of the freezer and do second run tomorrow morning. With this first time, decided to use cured bud, because it's more redily accessible right now. Everything went really smoothly thanks to everyone here's help. Did the soaking in the shade and then purged in the sun. Could have even soaked a little longer I think. Was wondering if you agitate the mixture while it's in the freezer at all. If so, how many times? Will post some photos when I have the final product. Thanks again!
So, finished the first runs a few days ago, thought I'd share my results briefly. I was relatively happy with the results, considering the starting material, and the fact that this was my first try at amber. I ended up using a little under 9g of cured buds on the first run, and soaked for almost 30 min. The second run I mixed the already run material with probably 8-10g of sugar trim. Soaked that for about 45 min. I think a combination of molding the first run into too many shapes and having more converted THC-A in cured material has made it pliable when handled for a while. If you move it quickly it still shards. The second run came out darker, but quite a bit more glassine. I'm trying to post photos, but am having some technical difficulties. I was hoping you guys could give me some purging information. I did a thin film purge over a steam bath. Kept the temp ~156-~170F, but since it was such a thin film, (basically a gram each time over a 10"x15" PYREX), I wasn't sure when to stop purging, and fear I may have over done it a bit. How long (minutes, hours?) would be just enough to get the ethanol out in these quantities and dimensions? Would the time double for double the amount? I'm happy with the results, and am looking forward to running fresh material next time!
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Olifant
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Beautiful thread to everyone involved. If I may add something to help with the THCA content of an extract. THCA is more soluble in alkaline methanol while THC is not. Dissolving the oil first in alkaline methanol and filtering/extracting with hexane before lowering the pH with a weak HCl solution will then give you a solution where you can extract with hexane again pullint out the THCA in the final hexane rinses.
Howevcer, I'm still not entirely convinced that THCA is what is responsible for the "shatter" consistencies. The "Jurassic Park" amber common to the bay area is a measly 40% THC+THCA, I believe it may be because theyre running the extraction at very high pressures at which CO2 is very effective at dissolving 30 +- carbon chain hydrocarbons
Howevcer, I'm still not entirely convinced that THCA is what is responsible for the "shatter" consistencies. The "Jurassic Park" amber common to the bay area is a measly 40% THC+THCA, I believe it may be because theyre running the extraction at very high pressures at which CO2 is very effective at dissolving 30 +- carbon chain hydrocarbons
I do not know what components cause eye redness effect, cannabinoids, or accompanying material.
I got the impression that I do not observe myself this phenomenon when using AA.
Maybe this is just an illusion, or my subjective reaction, I'm not sure.
Please share your thoughts on this.
I hadn't noticed. I'll check it out and report back.
I know my eyes have gotten redder than the devil when dabbing bho, but haven't noticed when only vaping AA. Super fried eyed when I eat decarboxylated AA in capsules. Also some strains seem worse than others, would be interesting to know what the cause is.
Ya I'd say thats fully purged...
