A5 Haze S1

[LostTribe]

I kept one of the cuts I found. At first they just wanted to go forever even alongside the other sativa's I had. I kept that cut in veg for a good while maybe 3-4 months at least then bloomed it in hydroponics. It came out short like really short from the NL maybe shorter than NL though. It took 14 weeks I think. The high was a mix of body and head. Not what you would call clear. I had more sativa leaning pheno's in the bandaidA5 but they also wanted to go forever and I didnt get a second shot at them. I have a couple of those bandaids left and I went and got an extra pack of the A5s1 to hang onto. Good luck with these!

It densed up about 3 weeks after this. I did have a timer issue with this round but only the thh mint got totally binned.

 

[LostTribe]

I assume some pre-flowers should show up here and there a few weeks earlier, we'll see.

I'd say not much going on before 5-7weeks.

 

[Karma G]

The A5s1 have a big variation, they are all over the place.

We seen that when flower first time as seed pkant under leds it takes a long time to show sex.

With HPS it showed faster. Also from cut they seem to show sex faster.

In the end i feel the 6 seed packs where to small being the variation in them.

 

[The Zientist]

I kept one of the cuts I found. At first they just wanted to go forever even alongside the other sativa's I had. I kept that cut in veg for a good while maybe 3-4 months at least then bloomed it in hydroponics. It came out short like really short from the NL maybe shorter than NL though. It took 14 weeks I think. The high was a mix of body and head. Not what you would call clear. I had more sativa leaning pheno's in the bandaidA5 but they also wanted to go forever and I didnt get a second shot at them. I have a couple of those bandaids left and I went and got an extra pack of the A5s1 to hang onto. Good luck with these!

It densed up about 3 weeks after this. I did have a timer issue with this round but only the thh mint got totally binned.

Thanks for sharing your experience @LostTribe.
I've stashed a few Bandaid A75 as well, there were few A5s left and I'd heard great things about it, so I thought I'd give it a try just in case.

 

[The Zientist]

The A5s1 have a big variation, they are all over the place.

We seen that when flower first time as seed pkant under leds it takes a long time to show sex.

With HPS it showed faster. Also from cut they seem to show sex faster.

In the end i feel the 6 seed packs where to small being the variation in them.

Sup Karma?

Thanks for passing by. It's nice to hear your thoughts on it.

There's diversity inside them, for sure. Makes sense given their wide genetic background. That should be Hz (HzA), Afghan (Steve Murphy) and Hawaiian (some Mexican type or cross), right?
The S1 can bring all possible combinations of the A5Hz mother genes alive. It's tempting and should be a journey.


These were flowered from rooted cuts straight to 12/12, no veg, under a mars hydro ts-1000 (150w).

We'll see, not much going atm though they recovered fast after repot and are resuming growth vigorously. Their structure seems to be quite good as well, rather practical despite being quite tropical at the same time. Well behaved and not so jungly.

I'm keeping mothers of them all and should do an S2 of my favorite cut(s) and few sib crosses among them. Hopefully, If there's one to find that's alligned with my taste, that is.

Will keep you posted.

 

[The Zientist]

It's D17 of 12/12.
Spent some time observing and handling them around . Took a few shots to update you.
It seems #4 went ahead of all others, early pre-flower development checked. Get your magnifying glass ready.

Here she is in all her glory. There's some variegation happening, yet another quirk.

And she rocks those 11 to 13 leaflets. The widest of the bunch:

@dank.frank here is #6 for you

Ideally, I would have liked to have grown every single one of cuts these without topping. It happens that I picked the fastest ones to root and they ended up being scrappy topped clones.

I hadn't posted #1 before (only group pic), she displays those deeply sunken leaves that some Thai/SEA plants are known to express:

And all the A5S1 ladies. I ended up adding one of the La Bomba that I'd grown previously to fill the empty space left by the Nanda Devi male. Happy composting.

Until the next time!
tZ

 

[dank.frank]

You're #1 has the same sort of leaf hang my keeper of BH7 x A5(r) has.

Still loving the look of the #6 though. Tuned in. Exciting thread.



dank.Frank

 

[The Zientist]

You're #1 has the same sort of leaf hang my keeper of BH7 x A5(r) has.

Still loving the look of the #6 though. Tuned in. Exciting thread.



dank.Frank

Thanks @dank.frank

@dubi kindly sent me a few Purple Zamal x A5. I'll be addressing those right after, so the show's just starting. Thanks maestro!

For those wondering about growth parameters: The soil is mostly light mix with a slight addition of kelp, dolomite, volcanic rock dust and worm castings. They're currently being fed organic bottled nutes(BAC bloom) at around 0.5mL/L and EC=0.45mS. The Mars hydro TS-1000 knob's already at 100%.

 

[LostTribe]

I didnt have any luck with mine under LED they may not flower. Put them under hps if you can.

edit
its been a while maybe they just didnt want to finish. I can't rember just run them. All these new lights are different too. @unclefishstick did you run these under led?

 

[The Zientist]

Rather concerning. I'm planning to switch them to 11/13 after D20 to keep them from stretching too much. Any thoughts why your's didn't flower?

On another subject, I've noticed #3 (both the cut and mother plant) has a weird trait where browning takes place under each node, and doesn't support the branches properly as they get heavier. This normally happens by developing those "muscle"-like structures. This one fails to do so entirely. Might have to picture it for you to understand better, though those of you that have gone through A5 S1 before have you noticed anything similar?

I didnt have any luck with mine under LED they may not flower.

 

[LostTribe]

Rather concerning. I'm planning to switch them to 11/13 after D20 to keep them from stretching too much. Any thoughts why your's didn't flower?

On another subject, I've noticed #3 (both the cut and mother plant) has a weird trait where browning takes place under each node, and doesn't support the branches properly as they get heavier. This normally happens by developing those "muscle"-like structures. This one fails to do so entirely. Might have to picture it for you to understand better, though those of you that have gone through A5 S1 before have you noticed anything similar?

Pics.

Look down in the karma forum for other grows I think someone else ran the same twice through also led and they never wanted to finish. Not knocking anything just looking out.

 

[The Zientist]

Hey everyone, time for a short update. Had a bit of spare time to grab some pics in auto for you to follow the progress, and the challenges.

It's D40 since these rooted cuts went straight to 12/12. A little crowded jungle. Today I've switched them to 11/13 and contemplated that I've should have done that from the start.

Not much time as I would like to be around them these days, with all the friends/family events. A few of the fastest growing have had a couple dryouts. Nothing serious, but impairing.
Every A5S1 out of 6 I have growing expresses a different pheno, likes substantially different growth parameters and there's not much margin of flexibility in my experience.
They are surviving but they won't be showing their best just yet. If any are worth (by any hints offered), they will be grown accordingly. This first run enables me also to get to know them better and the range they are comfortable with.
Ideally, they should be repotted by now (from 2L to 5L), since the stretch is now mostly over, but I won't be troubling myself with it and just let them be and offer a round of dry amendments soon (kelp, guano, lava rockdust, neem cake)

One of the kinky traits. A5S1#2 self tops, has a strange growth habit and throws this sickle twisted leaves with variegation, as I've seen a few Hz-progeny doing. Here she is next to a La Bomba I've growing along and replacing the previous Nanda Devi:

#4 has a remarkable structure and is leading the front in terms of flower development. She seems also to be one of the easier to pull off too.

She display variegation as well, in plenty of leaves and appears to follow some type of spiral pattern. Wicked trait, and doesn't seem to be holding her back.

#5 was shaded for a while and early on suffered from a bit of N excess, leaving her with that nasty look. I had to top her too as she was spearing the lights.

That is all for now. They won't be featured in any cover any time soon ahah, hoping they'll finish and show promises of a second run.

Thank you for following along, I'll be back soon with more (proper) pictures. Not on automatic and a few macros, you know.
tZ

 

[Piff_cat]

these are really nice plants and a few are definitly aneuploid- self topper varigation etc. my favorites always the self toppers must have a big increase in auxin maybe. haze A plants are hard to grow under led and in bigger pots. in my experience haze A specifically wants very well drained soil and warm rootzone and high humidity.

i ran into the same sensitivities running a different a5 based line which became stunted in much the same way. the led was not putting off enough infrared heat for proper transpiration.switched back to hps used smaller pots with lots of holes drilled in em kept humidity as close to 70 for first half of flower.

one of the many reasons yo sammy does so well with haze is the low profile of rockwool blocks and the high oxygen ratio it provides. the available oxygen for roots which can be starved if transpiration doesnt happen fast enough the biggest victim is calcium since its immobile and can only travel to the tops thru evaporation of stomata pulling it up.

but if the stomata is sensitive to lower humidity when the air becomes drier they close the stomata which also turns off the calcium elevator. foliar spray with kelp, dolomite lime and humic acid can work great to supplement these immobile nutrients and also temporarily increases humidity at stomata site so they dont close the vapor exchange.
if you can use foliar to keep cal/mag levels appropriate and give the rootzone time to dry all the way out. try to let them dry out to a degree which may seem abnormal dry enough to make the pot light and media a light color. you dont want to go to the point where the main stem isnt fully brixed or leaves drying out but right before it. hope that helps

 

[Airloom]

these are really nice plants and a few are definitly aneuploid- self topper varigation etc. my favorites always the self toppers must have a big increase in auxin maybe. haze A plants are hard to grow under led and in bigger pots. in my experience haze A specifically wants very well drained soil and warm rootzone and high humidity.

i ran into the same sensitivities running a different a5 based line which became stunted in much the same way. the led was not putting off enough infrared heat for proper transpiration.switched back to hps used smaller pots with lots of holes drilled in em kept humidity as close to 70 for first half of flower.

one of the many reasons yo sammy does so well with haze is the low profile of rockwool blocks and the high oxygen ratio it provides. the available oxygen for roots which can be starved if transpiration doesnt happen fast enough the biggest victim is calcium since its immobile and can only travel to the tops thru evaporation of stomata pulling it up.

but if the stomata is sensitive to lower humidity when the air becomes drier they close the stomata which also turns off the calcium elevator. foliar spray with kelp, dolomite lime and humic acid can work great to supplement these immobile nutrients and also temporarily increases humidity at stomata site so they dont close the vapor exchange.
if you can use foliar to keep cal/mag levels appropriate and give the rootzone time to dry all the way out. try to let them dry out to a degree which may seem abnormal dry enough to make the pot light and media a light color. you dont want to go to the point where the main stem isnt fully brixed or leaves drying out but right before it. hope that helps

Copied and pasted into my notes.
Always grateful for your technical yet pragmatic tips.
TY

 

[CannaT]

Anything is hard to grow right under leds if you dont have 100% controlled sealed room.
Then you can compete with avarage setup in cold days hid grow.

 

[Fitzera]

Not the A5 S1 but an A5 leaning Golden Tiger x A5. 5 gallon fabric pot of supersoil. Directly under leds. 20°C and 60-65% RH. HPS is over other plants on other side of tent.

 

[The Zientist]

these are really nice plants and a few are definitly aneuploid- self topper varigation etc. my favorites always the self toppers must have a big increase in auxin maybe. haze A plants are hard to grow under led and in bigger pots. in my experience haze A specifically wants very well drained soil and warm rootzone and high humidity.

i ran into the same sensitivities running a different a5 based line which became stunted in much the same way. the led was not putting off enough infrared heat for proper transpiration.switched back to hps used smaller pots with lots of holes drilled in em kept humidity as close to 70 for first half of flower.

one of the many reasons yo sammy does so well with haze is the low profile of rockwool blocks and the high oxygen ratio it provides. the available oxygen for roots which can be starved if transpiration doesnt happen fast enough the biggest victim is calcium since its immobile and can only travel to the tops thru evaporation of stomata pulling it up.

but if the stomata is sensitive to lower humidity when the air becomes drier they close the stomata which also turns off the calcium elevator. foliar spray with kelp, dolomite lime and humic acid can work great to supplement these immobile nutrients and also temporarily increases humidity at stomata site so they dont close the vapor exchange.
if you can use foliar to keep cal/mag levels appropriate and give the rootzone time to dry all the way out. try to let them dry out to a degree which may seem abnormal dry enough to make the pot light and media a light color. you dont want to go to the point where the main stem isnt fully brixed or leaves drying out but right before it. hope that helps

As always, your input keeps me on my toes. Thanks for that @Piff_cat
I'll be looking into working the cardinal parameters in the best way possible and following your advice to find the optimal growth conditions within the reach of my setup. These will be achieved mostly during future cycles of my favorite cut(s).

If oxygen delivery to the rootzone seems to be one of the limiting factors for running these types at their best, I'm assuming a proper soilless setup would prove to be even better than any soil-based, at least as far as containers are concerned, due to the higher capacity for these exchanges to occur in soilless media.
I've been following humid/dry cycles as far substrate is concerned, I do that normally and specially for more tropical varieties. These weren't any different.
One of the most problematic aspects of this cycle is the height differential between all individuals, and how close most are to the LED fixture. They are experiencing some photo damage on the tops, several are a visibly discolored due to that. Besides that, during holidays and festivities, some really went bone dry and experience draught stress, losing a few fan leaves at the bottom and so on. Probably without the silica content of my soil, they wouldn't rebound so fast, which they did, although still impaired some of the growth potential.

Yesterday I dedicated a bit of time and took the macro lens out. Made some pictures to document their growth habits and the quirks this seedline has been known for.
I'll go through them later tonight, and pick the best ones to share with you. You'll be able to see them in more detail.

It's a pleasure sharing my passion with likeminded peeps, thanks for that as well and for sharing yours with me.
tZ

 

[Piff_cat]

As always, your input keeps me on my toes. Thanks for that @Piff_cat
I'll be looking into working the cardinal parameters in the best way possible and following your advice to find the optimal growth conditions within the reach of my setup. These will be achieved mostly during future cycles of my favorite cut(s).

If oxygen delivery to the rootzone seems to be one of the limiting factors for running these types at their best, I'm assuming a proper soilless setup would prove to be even better than any soil-based, at least as far as containers are concerned, due to the higher capacity for these exchanges to occur in soilless media.
I've been following humid/dry cycles as far substrate is concerned, I do that normally and specially for more tropical varieties. These weren't any different.
One of the most problematic aspects of this cycle is the height differential between all individuals, and how close most are to the LED fixture. They are experiencing some photo damage on the tops, several are a visibly discolored due to that. Besides that, during holidays and festivities, some really went bone dry and experience draught stress, losing a few fan leaves at the bottom and so on. Probably without the silica content of my soil, they wouldn't rebound so fast, which they did, although still impaired some of the growth potential.

Yesterday I dedicated a bit of time and took the macro lens out. Made some pictures to document their growth habits and the quirks this seedline has been known for.
I'll go through them later tonight, and pick the best ones to share with you. You'll be able to see them in more detail.

It's a pleasure sharing my passion with likeminded peeps, thanks for that as well and for sharing yours with me.
tZ

sounds like a good plan of action. the various heights and lighting needs are also challenging especially in the original seed pops when all phenos are grown together. light heat and spectrum sensitivity are hard enough when all plants are same height! hazes relationship with light and flowering is delicate. they dont seem to require intense light to increase potency in the way hybrids do. its almost like they have an on/off switch where if light is correct distance/brightness they grow produce well regardless of the intensity. ive def had plants where the lower buds were bigger then tops since they were at the height the plant wanted. if you take a look at hempys grows he has alot of success putting plants on the margins out of direct light and let the branches decide if they like more or less. the tia he grows is directly relatable to haze A progeny so its a good rubric to study. i believe yo sammy starts his 600 hps about 3 feet above the plants when a foot tall at flower time. before i switched back to hps from led i first tried a waterproof tube heater to try and increase the root zone temp and in the process increase transpiration and phosphorous uptake. increasing nutrient water temperature is a good way to combat low root zone temp and adding an 02 pump can offset the lower oxygen capacity the heated water has.
these adjustments worked pretty well but for the amount of juice it was using it seemed a bare bulb 250/400w hps for supplemental heat and red spectrum was a more efficient solution since tube heater was already pulling 200w. haze rules! and will be worth the headache!

 

[Nannymouse]

these are really nice plants and a few are definitly aneuploid- self topper varigation etc. my favorites always the self toppers must have a big increase in auxin maybe. haze A plants are hard to grow under led and in bigger pots. in my experience haze A specifically wants very well drained soil and warm rootzone and high humidity.

i ran into the same sensitivities running a different a5 based line which became stunted in much the same way. the led was not putting off enough infrared heat for proper transpiration.switched back to hps used smaller pots with lots of holes drilled in em kept humidity as close to 70 for first half of flower.

one of the many reasons yo sammy does so well with haze is the low profile of rockwool blocks and the high oxygen ratio it provides. the available oxygen for roots which can be starved if transpiration doesnt happen fast enough the biggest victim is calcium since its immobile and can only travel to the tops thru evaporation of stomata pulling it up.

but if the stomata is sensitive to lower humidity when the air becomes drier they close the stomata which also turns off the calcium elevator. foliar spray with kelp, dolomite lime and humic acid can work great to supplement these immobile nutrients and also temporarily increases humidity at stomata site so they dont close the vapor exchange.
if you can use foliar to keep cal/mag levels appropriate and give the rootzone time to dry all the way out. try to let them dry out to a degree which may seem abnormal dry enough to make the pot light and media a light color. you dont want to go to the point where the main stem isnt fully brixed or leaves drying out but right before it. hope that helps

Is there a special reason to use humic acid in your kelp and lime spray...is it just to balance out the pH? I was wondering if lactic acid could be substituted.

 

[Hammerhead]

I had some issues in veg that affected most of my plants.. It will take some time for my A5hs1 to recover. My runt was culled. This plant was the only one that I caught before any issues were present. I repotted using OF soil. She does look like a poly to me. I have 4 others. All look different.