a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[Miraculous Meds]

so in new system ,no floating valve ,no large reservoir ? where nutrients goes ? i feel little lost ))

those pics are just showing different ways to set up the return drains, n the drip rings, etc... everything fundamental about the ppk is the same.

Do u understand the system? damn I wish I had saved one of the 5 or 10 times ive laid out how it works.

U have ur control or pulse reservoir connected to the buckets or totes used for plants to sit on, and the volume of water in the hose for the retuning water from the bottom buckets. all that together makes the water/nutrient that recirculates thru the plants when the pump cycles.

then in the control/pulse res sits the float valve in a cereal tote with a small hole to control the float valve from refilling the system too fast.

connected to the float valve is ur bigger volume reservoir with pre mixed nutrient water to top up the system.

 

[McKush]

few pages back there was some talk on adjustable recycle timers. i found one on amazon that so far is working great. search amazon for " digital recycle timer " or "digital short cycle timer "

the one i got for $60 is the Digital 734170 CT-1 Short Cycle Timer.

I believe hydrofarm & titan controls use this timer as well. Company names change, price, but they use the same china timer.


5 days it's been working well. my only problem was the instructions where very vague. they didn't explain all the symbols an modes that where available on my current timer " options ".

the reviews are mixed on amazon, but i feel its because the instruction set was so vague. it also seems the timers have been updated since some of the last reviews. there are more options available now, an the instructions didn't go into some things.


beside learning the menu on the timer, it seems like a pretty straight timer for $60.

bwell&bsafe

it is confusing at first but its a good cycle timer - the instructions suck ass. That timer is rebranded by a number of companies and if you search on the bay you will find them cheaper than that. I paid $40 including shipping.

Here is a bay seller with the same unit under a YHS brand...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121541992201?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I know you know this GMW but for anyone else interested -

The trick is to ensure the sun and Moon symbols are "BOTH" shown with a small box around them on the top right part of the LCD screen. The Clock looking symbol on the top left part of the LCD should be "BLINKING" to indicate it is working. If you have it correctly in mode - the time indicated on the left is the duration of the power on event (i.e. it will run a pump for that amount of time.) The time indicated on the right is the amount of time that elapses between power on, or rather, the duration of the power OFF cycle. There are multiple modes that the timer will run it so it is imperative you learn it and how to easily identify how it is set (ask me how i know....) - you use that green button to toggle thru them.




Hope that helps someone out there and that I didn't screw up the explanation, its from memry' ya know.

 

[av8or]

so in new system ,no floating valve ,no large reservoir ? where nutrients goes ? i feel little lost ))

I understand why you are confused. If you give me a few days, I'm going to go build another 6 plant room tomorrow and I'll take lots of pictures and post the appropriate ones for this size system, showing all the plumbing....a mini-tutorial, if you will.

There is a float valve but instead of having a pump and float valve in a separate "main reservoir," I use any of the 27 gallon bottom tubs as the "main res." In the smaller systems that use 5 gallon bottom tubs, it is my understanding that a main res is required to add enough stock solution to the system to buffer large swings in ph and ppm's, and also as not to cavitate the pump. With the 27 gallon bottom tubs, there's more water by nature of larger tubs so the main res is no longer necessary. Pics to follow as it gets built tomorrow. That being said, I will likely use a single 5 gallon bucket for the float valve connected inline with the ppk sites so that I don't have to fuss with moving a plant off a bucket in order to manipulate my water level/air gap. It'll all make sense soon....I hope.

 

[funnymath]

it is confusing at first but its a good cycle timer - the instructions suck ass. That timer is rebranded by a number of companies and if you search on the bay you will find them cheaper than that. I paid $40 including shipping.

Here is a bay seller with the same unit under a YHS brand...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121541992201?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Thank you (and everyone else that listed this one, well and any others). This is the one that I ordered and got mysteriously canceled (I'm assuming due to availability). I was getting it for 40 shipped and was having a hard time stomaching paying 80-100 for another one.

 

[mufinman]

why does this thread, now, today, say there are 72 pages but only page 70 is viewable??

 

[delta9nxs]

Thank you (and everyone else that listed this one, well and any others). This is the one that I ordered and got mysteriously canceled (I'm assuming due to availability). I was getting it for 40 shipped and was having a hard time stomaching paying 80-100 for another one.

95 bucks for the blueprint and it's a quality product that will actually fire up to 15 amps without eventually burning up.

 

[rover747]

I understand why you are confused. If you give me a few days, I'm going to go build another 6 plant room tomorrow and I'll take lots of pictures and post the appropriate ones for this size system, showing all the plumbing....a mini-tutorial, if you will.

There is a float valve but instead of having a pump and float valve in a separate "main reservoir," I use any of the 27 gallon bottom tubs as the "main res." In the smaller systems that use 5 gallon bottom tubs, it is my understanding that a main res is required to add enough stock solution to the system to buffer large swings in ph and ppm's, and also as not to cavitate the pump. With the 27 gallon bottom tubs, there's more water by nature of larger tubs so the main res is no longer necessary. Pics to follow as it gets built tomorrow. That being said, I will likely use a single 5 gallon bucket for the float valve connected inline with the ppk sites so that I don't have to fuss with moving a plant off a bucket in order to manipulate my water level/air gap. It'll all make sense soon....I hope.

Awesome !!! I will be here ! Thank you !

 

[OG_TGR]

Thanks for the info gentlemen.
I found the primary issue with the veg on the reuse seemed to be primarily from my top off system that had gotten bumped out of whack, causing my pwt to be running about 6" higher than it should be!

Here's to a speedy recovery D9!

I hate those damn pain pills. I had to have some a while back and there came a point I felt I was better off dealing with the pain of a separated sternum than to be in a state where I couldn't tell if I was asleep or awake...

 

[JamesFarmer]

Hey AV8OR:

I would really like to hear more details regarding your PPK perpetual grow. Grow room layout, lighting details & general details of a successful perpetual grow.

Would it be appropriate to talk about that in this thread?

Thanks

 

[av8or]

James,

If you haven't seen my thread...here it is:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=294936

The grow is still technically going on, as it's perpetual, but this room is getting replaced after I finish these few other rooms. If you'd like to discuss the intricacies of how I do things, hit me up there or on PM, but I think most general questions can be discussed here. The room setup for my first room is 10x17 with 3900 watts of vertical lighting split between 7 bulbs. I did the checkerboard type pattern with a plant, then a light, then a plant, etc.. Temps stay between 84-78 F, RH is 58% day and 50% night, CO2 is at 800 ppm and jacks/calnit is at 600 ppm input, ph 5.8 regularly. Note: I don't use a pen or any meter anymore. DO NOT CHASE THESE NUTES AND PH!!! I didn't believe D9 for a while....then I did...and now I always will. In my 27 gallon pre-mix reservoir, I fill to about an inch or two from the top, toss two heaping tablespoons of jacks in...stir a minute, toss two heaping tablespoons (same volume always) and mix....then to check the ph, I just don't. Walk away at this point. Stop messing with it. It'll all buff out, seriously.

That's my setup. 8 plants in flower, 4 in veg. I take one plant down every 8 days on an average of 18 ounces per...my biggest being 30 ounces. Poor lighting and inadequate lateral space between plants made my plants smaller than their potential, but that's what the next rooms I'm currently building are going to rectify. I'm getting 1.05 grams per watt, if that's a quantification anyone still cares about, but it's my opinion that it's always worth slamming extra light (and electrical costs) in there to get greater yield, structure, resin and potency.

As for successful perpetual grows, my biggest piece of advice is to get on a spray regimen as if you are infested before you ever see any sign of bugs or other maladies. Every four days I spray a rotation of Green Cleaner (corn oil and soybean oil), Mega Wash (frequency altered water...I dunno, it seems to work really well) and OG Biowar Foliar Feed bennies. Root aphids can be difficult to deal with in a perpetual system, but I've figured that out now, too. Another consideration to perpetual growing is that you're never truly giving any specific plant the perfect conditions for that stage of growth. Ideally, you would have the same age plants and be able to manipulate the environment as needed for the entire crop as they go into later stages of development. Perpetual growing is about finding that ideal median environment where MOST of your plants will do well. Not putting two opposite landrace strains in the same room at the same time will help, but they'll always be different sizes, making the lighting positioning never quite perfect either. It's a give and take, in my opinion. But again, if you're willing to accept a pound a week with 12 plants, then do what I do. I'm not willing to accept that anymore. I expect something closer to 2.5 to 3 pounds per week in that setup, but I need more light, more room and a few more weeks of veg time. So, that's what I'm doing!

D9 and I build his prop room the other week with some new ways to put fittings and manifolds together. That'll be a perpetual system, as well, so stay tuned here to see how that shakes out. Also, I'll be starting another thread sometime here in the near future where you all can raz me for my silly ideas and mistakes more pointedly. I hope I gave you some insight, James! Feel free to ask anything you want on my thread or ask away right here if its something the entire PPK community could benefit from.

Alright, PPKers....it's a cool, sunny day in Oregon. Time to go enjoy the great Pacific Northwest!!!

...after a bowl, of course.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey AV8OR:

I would really like to hear more details regarding your PPK perpetual grow. Grow room layout, lighting details & general details of a successful perpetual grow.

Would it be appropriate to talk about that in this thread?

Thanks

no, it is forbidden!

we ain't got no thread nazi's here!

av8or will give you his but really the biggest problem will be pest control. you must have an IPM strategy before you even start and stay on schedule religiously.

you will need a clone station of 4-5 weeks, a vegging room to achieve your ideal size for flipping, typically 4-7 weeks, and a dedicated flower room that is always in 12-12 mode. the flower room should be approx 10 weeks because that is average for most strains and gives you some room to play around with different strains. i could run an 11 week plant in between a few 9 week plants and 8 week plants and still generally stay on approx schedule overall.

this assumes large plants harvesting one per week.

i was able to harvest 48 in one year by staying as close to this schedule as possible.

 

[delta9nxs]

looks like av8or and i cross posted but i would like to add that growing different size plants in the same room can be worked to your advantage. since they are not all the same size at the same time you can grow larger plants than if they were all the same size by interspersing large and small ones and keeping the lights movable.

if you are in this class of growers a perpetual helps avoid the feast or famine financial scenario that folks growing unit grows experience. i like regular paychecks.

for years all i had was a clone table, a 6 plant veg room and a 10 plant flower room.

 

[av8or]

looks like av8or and i cross posted but i would like to add that growing different size plants in the same room can be worked to your advantage. since they are not all the same size at the same time you can grow larger plants than if they were all the same size by interspersing large and small ones and keeping the lights movable.

Agreed! My 30 ounce plant wouldn't have fit with six other similar sized plants. That's a good point, D9. Although...try moving a newly vegged up plant around a monster plant in the flower room....thankfully I can lift these bastards with relative ease but it can be a real pain. That why I lean towards perpetual room harvests...but in this setup I will need 20 rooms to pull one a week at 2.5-3 pounds per plant.

 

[Snook]

looks like av8or and i cross posted but i would like to add that growing different size plants in the same room can be worked to your advantage. since they are not all the same size at the same time you can grow larger plants than if they were all the same size by interspersing large and small ones and keeping the lights movable.

if you are in this class of growers a perpetual helps avoid the feast or famine financial scenario that folks growing unit grows experience. i like regular paychecks.

for years all i had was a clone table, a 6 plant veg room and a 10 plant flower room.

You have come a long way since the original muck bucket days and now youre the shaman.

 

[McKush]

James,

If you haven't seen my thread...here it is:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=294936

The grow is still technically going on, as it's perpetual, but this room is getting replaced after I finish these few other rooms. If you'd like to discuss the intricacies of how I do things, hit me up there or on PM, but I think most general questions can be discussed here. The room setup for my first room is 10x17 with 3900 watts of vertical lighting split between 7 bulbs. I did the checkerboard type pattern with a plant, then a light, then a plant, etc.. Temps stay between 84-78 F, RH is 58% day and 50% night, CO2 is at 800 ppm and jacks/calnit is at 600 ppm input, ph 5.8 regularly. Note: I don't use a pen or any meter anymore. DO NOT CHASE THESE NUTES AND PH!!! I didn't believe D9 for a while....then I did...and now I always will. In my 27 gallon pre-mix reservoir, I fill to about an inch or two from the top, toss two heaping tablespoons of jacks in...stir a minute, toss two heaping tablespoons (same volume always) and mix....then to check the ph, I just don't. Walk away at this point. Stop messing with it. It'll all buff out, seriously.

...

Its interesting to compare procedures so I'll explain how I manage feed. I take ro water and fill two (2) one gallon milk jugs, then with an inexpensive lightweight food scale i measure 880 grams of jacks 5-12-26 and mix it into one milk jug and 580 grams of jacks calcnit into the other milk jug - this forms my stock solution and i use that stock solution to mix into my ro water to feed using a large syringe. from those two stock solutions I use 10ml per gallon of ro that i'm adding, first adding the 5-12-26 and stirring, then adding the same amount in ml of the calcnit and stirring. This will yield 600 ppm. I feed 600 ppm thru all stages. i have never checked ph, don't need to worry about it. I add the 5-12-26 first and stir then add the calcnit and stir.

so i use two stock solution milk jugs and from them 10ml of each per gallon of ro. 600 ppm every time.

to get the number of gallons i'm adding is a bit more tricky but it isn't bad once you get understand I don't have ro water in my lung room, I have to bucket it in with 5 gal buckets. I have a 55 gal container that I make ro water in my furnace room, I fill the 5 gal bucket with ro water (as much as I think I can safely carry without spilling any) and then I weigh the bucket on a digital foot scale in pounds (US). I don't tare the bucket or anything I just ignore that in my calculations. I take the weight of the bucket of ro water from the scale and divide it by 8.34 which is the weight in pounds of a gallon of water. That calculation gives me the number of gallons in the bucket. then I multiply the gallons in the bucket by 10 to get the number of milliliters of solution to add. (This sounds complicated but it really isn't bad once you get the hang of it.) and I use a big syringe that has ml on it to suck out the solution and add it to the ro.

so if my bucket of ro water ways 4.6 pounds it is 4.6 x 10 = 46ml of stock solution to add for that bucket to get 600ppm.

i usually truck 2 buckets a time into the lung, write down the weights then when i'm done trucking buckets (in the dark mind you, security always) i tally up how much weight I just added, use my cell phone calculator to divided lbs by 8.34 and multiply that by 10 to get the amount in ml to add.
then i just use the syringe which is in ml to add it.

it taint that bad really, frigging hard to describe in words tho..

 

[delta9nxs]

Agreed! My 30 ounce plant wouldn't have fit with six other similar sized plants. That's a good point, D9. Although...try moving a newly vegged up plant around a monster plant in the flower room....thankfully I can lift these bastards with relative ease but it can be a real pain. That why I lean towards perpetual room harvests...but in this setup I will need 20 rooms to pull one a week at 2.5-3 pounds per plant.

when moving large plants from veg to flower i got to the point, after breaking a lot of large branches on both the vegging and flowering plants (ouch), where i would wrap the veggers up in that pallet wrap plastic that comes on rolls with handles on them. kinda compressing the plant like christmas trees on a lot. wrapping from the bottom up. once in place cutting the plastic off.

 

[delta9nxs]

You have come a long way since the original muck bucket days and now youre the shaman.

oh yeah? well, same to you but more of it! shaman my ass! please!

i know i have shown my ass on here quite frequently before but if i did it right now you would all die laughing.

it is currently international distress orange.

the incisions were about at the L5 and they were pretty liberal with the iodine.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Its interesting to compare procedures so I'll explain how I manage feed. I take ro water and fill two (2) one gallon milk jugs, then with an inexpensive lightweight food scale i measure 880 grams of jacks 5-12-26 and mix it into one milk jug and 580 grams of jacks calcnit into the other milk jug - this forms my stock solution and i use that stock solution to mix into my ro water to feed using a large syringe. from those two stock solutions I use 10ml per gallon of ro that i'm adding, first adding the 5-12-26 and stirring, then adding the same amount in ml of the calcnit and stirring. This will yield 600 ppm. I feed 600 ppm thru all stages. i have never checked ph, don't need to worry about it. I add the 5-12-26 first and stir then add the calcnit and stir.

so i use two stock solution milk jugs and from them 10ml of each per gallon of ro. 600 ppm every time.

to get the number of gallons i'm adding is a bit more tricky but it isn't bad once you get understand I don't have ro water in my lung room, I have to bucket it in with 5 gal buckets. I have a 55 gal container that I make ro water in my furnace room, I fill the 5 gal bucket with ro water (as much as I think I can safely carry without spilling any) and then I weigh the bucket on a digital foot scale in pounds (US). I don't tare the bucket or anything I just ignore that in my calculations. I take the weight of the bucket of ro water from the scale and divide it by 8.34 which is the weight in pounds of a gallon of water. That calculation gives me the number of gallons in the bucket. then I multiply the gallons in the bucket by 10 to get the number of milliliters of solution to add. (This sounds complicated but it really isn't bad once you get the hang of it.) and I use a big syringe that has ml on it to suck out the solution and add it to the ro.

so if my bucket of ro water ways 4.6 pounds it is 4.6 x 10 = 46ml of stock solution to add for that bucket to get 600ppm.

i usually truck 2 buckets a time into the lung, write down the weights then when i'm done trucking buckets (in the dark mind you, security always) i tally up how much weight I just added, use my cell phone calculator to divided lbs by 8.34 and multiply that by 10 to get the amount in ml to add.
then i just use the syringe which is in ml to add it.

it taint that bad really, frigging hard to describe in words tho..

bro, heres a suggestion to make life easier. hook a pump n hose up to ur ro res. then make markings on ur control or bulk res, so u know how much ur adding. then top up with the pump n give ur back n those 5 gal buckets a rest.

 

[McKush]

bro, heres a suggestion to make life easier. hook a pump n hose up to ur ro res. then make markings on ur control or bulk res, so u know how much ur adding. then top up with the pump n give ur back n those 5 gal buckets a rest.

dude... way ahead of you and already considered many moons ago... hehe i got security concerns both within and without to deal with and that line from the ro tub to the outside sure looks funny to any service person with half a brain. I continue to keep fish to explain the need for a 55 gallon ro tub after all.

have already done some plumbing to that end but there are also practical considerations like freezing weather in my parts so I just say - fucket and bucket.

I switched from DTW coco to a re-circulation system primarily to cut down on the need to generate so much water for my room. I cannot keep up with DTW without a spigot out there and relocating the ro unit is just not practical. With PPK that problem was solved.

i do appreciate your suggestion though and desire to help!

Peace
H.B.

 

[funnymath]

dude... way ahead of you and already considered many moons ago... hehe i got security concerns both within and without to deal with and that line from the ro tub to the outside sure looks funny to any service person with half a brain. I continue to keep fish to explain the need for a 55 gallon ro tub after all.

have already done some plumbing to that end but there are also practical considerations like freezing weather in my parts so I just say - fucket and bucket.

I switched from DTW coco to a re-circulation system primarily to cut down on the need to generate so much water for my room. I cannot keep up with DTW without a spigot out there and relocating the ro unit is just not practical. With PPK that problem was solved.

i do appreciate your suggestion though and desire to help!

Peace
H.B.

How often do you need to haul those two buckets out there? This is something I've thought was funny that no one talks about, how many gallons of nutes in a week with their size of system.