a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[av8or]

What is the "new system" ?

6.5 gal top tub
27 gallon tote bottom tub
3" pvc wick (8" in length)
3" cleanout adapter - follow link
Window screen
4 stainless steel set screws
Reflectix (optional, but you'll need to cover the yellow lid with something because UV light breaks down that plastic)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSe...V-Inside-Fit-Cleanout-Adapter-97482/100141128

 

[JamesFarmer]

6.5 gal top tub
27 gallon tote bottom tub
3" pvc wick (8" in length)
3" cleanout adapter - follow link
Window screen
4 stainless steel set screws
Reflectix (optional, but you'll need to cover the yellow lid with something because UV light breaks down that plastic)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSe...V-Inside-Fit-Cleanout-Adapter-97482/100141128

Got it

I went back to the beginning of the thread and answered my own question. Thank you for the link to the part on HD.

 

[funnymath]

6.5 gal top tub
27 gallon tote bottom tub
3" pvc wick (8" in length)
3" cleanout adapter - follow link
Window screen
4 stainless steel set screws
Reflectix (optional, but you'll need to cover the yellow lid with something because UV light breaks down that plastic)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSe...V-Inside-Fit-Cleanout-Adapter-97482/100141128

I'm not anywhere near the point where I could grow trees, but just out of curiosity, why such a big bottom tub? And how well does the lid hold the 6+ gallons of turface? The tote is way stronger in person than I thought it would be, but I'm still not sure about all that turface being held in the middle.

 

[JamesFarmer]

turface all sports is a smaller overall particle size than the mvp product. it will have a lower air filled porosity than mvp right out of the bag.

it is more likely to clog up a tailpiece than mvp.

Is the difference enough that you think it is a significant problem? Should I keep looking for MVP?

Thanks

 

[McKush]

i researched this question both at the John Deere place and at home. googled "turface all sports vs. mvp" and many posts relate that they are the same thing. i did find a post on an aquatics website where the poster back in 2012 asked them ("response from turface")and received this response from them back then:

------start quote-------
Response from turface

You ask a very common question. John Deere Landscape has a private label of our Turface products just under the name they use. Below is an equivalency for you.

Quick Dry = Game Saver - This is the finest/smallest particle size (nearly dust) and is used mostly as a drying agent.

MVP = All Sport - This is the most common product with a the largest variety of particle sizes. the largest being about 1/16 of an inch and smallest being just larger then Quick Dry particles.

ProLeague = All Sport Pro - This is the most consistent particle sizes Basically the middle of the spectrum you find in MVP, very few of the largest and smallest particles you see in MVP with 95% being in the middle.

Other variations of ProLeague only provide color options, all the particle sizing is the same.

Most aquarium builders use ProLeage because they like the particle size. Typically they will soak the product in water in a bucket over night to let any fine dust particles separate before they load into the tank.
----end quote-------

I actually spent some time with the sales rep at the JD place and insisted he search and find out if they carried MVP. I was peeved at driving 45 minutes and not finding the turface i was expecting, believe me i made him check. He did some searching in his terminal and came back with the same response as well, that all sports was John Deeres branded product called all sports but they were the same.

Some other sites reference that is is similar..

Now that doesn't mean I believe it is 100% true or the same product, i've not compared two bags to see or have it directly from the company, it may in fact be classified/screened differently and not identical products.

I'm going with close enough however as I have to screen and wash it anyway, maybe i'll need a bit more raw media than MVP. dunno. i'm calling it close enough.

one thing for certain cant take the 8822 much longer, dries out the supple skin on my hands and i've always wanted to be a hand model

 

[av8or]

I'm not anywhere near the point where I could grow trees, but just out of curiosity, why such a big bottom tub? And how well does the lid hold the 6+ gallons of turface? The tote is way stronger in person than I thought it would be, but I'm still not sure about all that turface being held in the middle.

Big bottom tub does a few things:

1) More stock solutions, allowing greater buffering characteristics in the nutes, less swings in ph and ppm. Chemical stability.

2) Strength and physical stability. It's a rigid bucket that does a great job of holding large plants with turface on it. No issues whatsoever with sagging lids or bendy buckets. Solid.

3) Cheap and readily available at almost all home improvement stores.

4) Versatility. I use the same tubs for mix res, cloner, veg, flower, harvesting, etc. The local Lowe's assumes I'm buying more tubs every time I walk in there.

 

[JamesFarmer]

From the description above, I would think that the Pro League would be the superior product. It sounds like it would need less screening/washing.

Am I missing something?

 

[McKush]

From the description above, I would think that the Pro League would be the superior product. It sounds like it would need less screening/washing.

Am I missing something?

No it is not better. Screened mvp yields a larger sized particle which gives the correct porosity. Pro league more likey to clog. It is unscreenable too.

 

[delta9nxs]

Is the difference enough that you think it is a significant problem? Should I keep looking for MVP?

Thanks

yes

 

[delta9nxs]

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"smaller, more uniform particles" than mvp. the photo below is mvp. see related subject "sphere packing".

smaller, more uniform, particles pack tighter and will have a lower air filled porosity.

 

[delta9nxs]

proleague and mvp are sold on the same website as different products. further, i personally have bought both and the mvp most definitely has a larger average particle size.

they are both calcined clay.

http://www.turface.com/turface-products.

the product you want is turface mvp, screened over regular aluminum window insect screen that is sold at hardware stores.

if you have the proleague or the all sports do a porosity test and see the difference.

john deere sells the all sports but not the mvp.

you guys are gonna make me drag out my old computer and produce the same old photos.

to further confuse the issue there is a turf product sold in some regions that is called paneraone, sounds like a sandwich but it is exactly the same as mvp.

 

[delta9nxs]

http://www.turface.com/turface-products/infield-conditioners

 

[JamesFarmer]

MVP it is!!

I did some more checking and finally found it locally for $12.50 a bag at Ewing Irrigation. http://www.ewing1.com/cgi/ewz_loc_branchlocator.php
They have locations in 20 States.

 

[McKush]

Good on ya JF. Not one within 100 miles for me tho. I think im cool anyway.

 

[rover747]

6.5 gal top tub
27 gallon tote bottom tub
3" pvc wick (8" in length)
3" cleanout adapter - follow link
Window screen
4 stainless steel set screws
Reflectix (optional, but you'll need to cover the yellow lid with something because UV light breaks down that plastic)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSe...V-Inside-Fit-Cleanout-Adapter-97482/100141128

will you post any photos here ?

 

[theplaya]

After 1 year I got my very first clogging using the 4 inch pipe. Anyone else has that problem? What did u do to solve it. Mine just wouldn't drain. It was still in veg so I moved it to a brand new tub. Lost a bunch of roots in the process. Not even mentioning the dramatic stress I caused it

 

[theplaya]

And I always always have root growing into the bottom bucket. Sometimes after harvest I pull it out and it completely filled the lower 5 gallon bucket. Anyone know why it does this? I at first thought it was because of the particle size so I rescreened with a bigger hole size to rid of more smaller turface. That didn't work it still grew down. I just recently tried pulse instead of floods. It's only been a week so too early to tell if it remedied the issue.

 

[av8or]

will you post any photos here ?

Yes, I'm installing six more today so I'll take some pics.

 

[delta9nxs]

And I always always have root growing into the bottom bucket. Sometimes after harvest I pull it out and it completely filled the lower 5 gallon bucket. Anyone know why it does this? I at first thought it was because of the particle size so I rescreened with a bigger hole size to rid of more smaller turface. That didn't work it still grew down. I just recently tried pulse instead of floods. It's only been a week so too early to tell if it remedied the issue.

i think that maybe when we have a long drain event instead of a short duration drain event there may be some kind of hormonal response increasing the volume of root material that grows down the pipe.

this is one of the unexplained things about the ppk.

i think the 4" drain is also too large for an indoor container unless you are using a long vegetation period. perhaps 10 weeks or more.

we all need to observe and work on this.

we have seen the plant grow two types of roots in this device. one type is obviously long, ladder type hydro root adapted for deriving o2 from water and the other is a feathery root more adapted for deriving o2 from air.

possibly something about the drain events is influencing the preponderance of one type of root over the other.

i believe the hydro type roots are mostly implicated in the clogging events.

long immersion periods probably influence the development of those types.

when we get everybody thinking about this as they grow and observe we will resolve this.

 

[delta9nxs]

oh yeah, you have all just seen a picture of turface mvp next to a quarter for scale. if you have another product please take a pic of it too and post it here for reference.

with the quarter of course.