a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[mufinman]

good morning! i don't bake the stuff for growing. i just baked a small sample for testing to make sure it was absolutely dry. although 3-4 hours at 165f would be a great de-louser!

there can be bugs in the pumice?

 

[delta9nxs]

there can be bugs in the pumice?

apparently there can be bugs in anything. i've become highly suspicious of their sub-rosa agendas. they are crafty little bastards and will use anything they can to get at you. everything that moves or is transported is suspect.

remember, you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you!

but some things are more or less likely to be contaminated than others. turface and de, perlite, and others i'm sure, have been heated to high temperatures right before going into the packaging.

things like, pumice, peat, bark, lava rock have been laying around in an outdoor setting usually in the presence of a bunch of plants at some nursery or landscaping business. so bugs are highly likely.

editing to say that even though coco fiber is packaged it is from a place where it has been sitting outside in huge piles.

 

[Snook]

apparently there can be bugs in anything. i've become highly suspicious of their sub-rosa agendas. they are crafty little bastards and will use anything they can to get at you. everything that moves or is transported is suspect.

remember, you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you!

but some things are more or less lightly to be contaminated than others. turface and de, perlite, and others i'm sure, have been heated to high temperatures right before going into the packaging.

things like, pumice, peat, bark, lava rock have been laying around in an outdoor setting usually in the presence of a bunch of plants at some nursery or landscaping business. so bugs are highly likely.

editing to say that even though coco fiber is packaged it is from a place where it has been sitting outside in huge piles.

there is logic in there Mr9.. thanks

 

[gregor_mendel]

screws are #10 x 1/2" stainless sheet metal screws. drill 7/32" pilot holes in the abs pipe only and the screws act like set screws

.

7/32" is larger than the thread diameter of a #10 screw.
Should this read 7/64"?

That is what I used.

 

[delta9nxs]

.

7/32" is larger than the thread diameter of a #10 screw.
Should this read 7/64"?

That is what I used.

yep, thanks! 7/64" or we could just say 1/8" for simplicity.

 

[delta9nxs]

i think i'll issue a warning on the original container shown on this thread. the 3 gal top container only. not the tailpiece or the 7 gal container.

some folks here have grown really large plants in them but have struggled with some kind of hydraulic issue that we don't understand.

if you have already bought these i apologize for the inconvenience.

because the tailpiece is detachable they can be switched to another top container and used on the 40 quart bottoms that you already have.

if you are in these 3 gal containers you will need to run a really large airgap (5-6") to compensate and cut back on watering frequency.

the same company that makes these 3 gal ones also makes a 6.5 gallon that will work in the 40 quart bottoms. i suggest you switch to those and make sure your medium depth is at least 5".

the 3 gal containers have a working depth of 3.5". i think we may have found the lower limit of medium depth for the hydraulics to work right.

they may work fine with a smaller diameter tailpiece though. we haven't tried it yet but a 2" one might be ok. there is a plumbing reducer that will take you down to 2" from 3" if you have already cut the 3" hole.

 

[gregor_mendel]

It's a bummer to hear that. I just cut holes in mine last night.

I'm not financially prepared to buy new tops, so I will attempt to increase the container height with some plastic and plumber's goop.

I will let everyone know how it works.

It would be interesting to know whether 5" is the minimum working height for any size tailpiece, or if there is a relation between medium height and tailpiece diameter.

Thanks for the warning. I would like to know if the 2" tailpiece works, as it would be the simplest and least expensive solution.

 

[Oysters]

i think i'll issue a warning on the original container shown on this thread. the 3 gal top container only. not the tailpiece or the 7 gal container.

Thanks for the heads up. I am setting up my PPK (thanks for putting me on the PPK track), but it's still all in pieces. Easy to switch to a bigger top tub at this stage.

 

[delta9nxs]

It's a bummer to hear that. I just cut holes in mine last night.

I'm not financially prepared to buy new tops, so I will attempt to increase the container height with some plastic and plumber's goop.

I will let everyone know how it works.

It would be interesting to know whether 5" is the minimum working height for any size tailpiece, or if there is a relation between medium height and tailpiece diameter.

Thanks for the warning. I would like to know if the 2" tailpiece works, as it would be the simplest and least expensive solution.

i think it's the ratio of tailpiece diameter to medium depth. or just medium depth.

not tailpiece depth.

i'm thinking that a 2" tailpiece might work on the 3 gal containers with their 3.5" medium depth.

but some people seem to be using them just fine as they are shown in the thread.

you might try it and see if you experience drowning wih a properly prepared medium. and that is screened over the aluminum screen and washed well. maybe making the tailpieces a little longer might help too.

i have never had the chance to grow in them and so i don't really know what's going on yet.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I wonder if preparing the tailpiece medium, instead of the standard 35% porosity, bumping it up to 45% or so would balance out the hydraulic action.

 

[av8or]

The last few inches of tailpipe I drill out some holes to help out. Seems to have alleviated any drainage issues. I also barely wash my turface and I don't screen it at all. Call me lazy but it hasn't hindered my growth. I also use two tailpipes that are 2" pvc @ 6" in length. The only issues I've had were with roots clogging the pipes which was an easy fix. Just unscrew the tailpipe from the 7gal tub and screw a new one (stuffed with turface) on. No drainage issues anymore.

 

[gregor_mendel]

Homz Tubs from WalMart?

Homz Tubs from WalMart?

These are 17.5 gallons, like the tubs used for bottom containers with 7 gallon Tuff Stuff top containers.

They are thinner and cheaper, but readily available.

The material is not listed, which concerns me, given the off gassing issues so many of us have experienced with some plastics.

Has anyone here used one in grow room?

 

[delta9nxs]

well, i just spoke with someone who has a grow using these 3 gal containers and 3" tailpieces. they are 2 weeks into stretch and have experienced nothing but rapid growth.

i saw pics and the plants look good and healthy.

 

[gregor_mendel]

Any word as to medium used in the drowning plant modules?

 

[delta9nxs]

Any word as to medium used in the drowning plant modules?

both turface and pumice.

 

[mack 10]

some of us use a pump to stir on a timer, but no air stones are needed.

One pump feeds the sites while sucking the water that is drained back to the res.

This truly is a set it and forget it system, i left my girls unattended for over 3 weeks and my leaves were still angled up without a single sign of deficiency. Don't think i'll ever go back to any kind of grow, this system will have your girls standing longer than a soil grow since they're always feeding from the wick

You haven't quite grasped it yet. Lets see if I can clear it up a bit more for ya.

The roots are not placed in the wick/drain to start. You fill the wick up with the same medium your gonna use. Then u plant as normal. Like all growing there are different strategies for how u wanna veg. D9 actually roots cuttings in this thing. So either start directly in the ppk or say root a cutting in rw or whatever, tp into a solo cup with medium of choice. then when ready throw in ppk planter with same medium, just like tp'ing any other way.
You do water from the top, with a pump in your control res, feed line going to the top of your planter, set on a timer to auto water. When ur little girl grows, she will stretch her roots down into the wick, but usually not grow to aggressive roots down there cause that is where ur PWT is making ur medium more wet = less oxygen. But the entire top planter will be a sweet spot for ur roots since the PWT is now below it in the wick. That water logged medium in the bottom of your planter is only in the bottom of the wick.
OK, so now I think u need to understand that the planter sits on top of a bucket. The wick/drain goes thru a hole u cut in the bucket lid, thus holding it in place and allowing it to drain into bucket. The bucket has a hose connected to the bottom, on the side that runs back to the control res. the control res is controlled by a float valve connected to a elevated bulk res. This keeps the water level the same that u set the float valve at in the control res, and the bucket underneath ur plants. So the bucket underneath ur plant will always have a water level that is set to keep your wick/drain wet so u can wick back up moistures as needed.
What helped me was to see these things to better conceptualize them in action. Im sure as d9 builds the thread u will see it coming together, but I suggest looking for some pics that can help. I know most of d9 pics are gone on the old thread "big plant ppk", but if u look around page 65ish alien dog or dam ugly dog now quoted d9 and made a joke about a refection of a fan in the control res. While it is funny he did us a big favor by capturing a pic of d9's control res. That will help with the plumbing idea on the control res. Next I recommend looking at flower farmers ppk thread, here u can see the big ppk version and see what I mean by planter on top of bucket returning to control res.
Man I didn't realize how hard this shit is to put into words, wish I could take pics for ya but there out there just spend some time searching or wait for d9 to bring it here.

Thanks for that, I like 5th was struggling to understand PPKs.
Now I do.
.one quick observation, never heard this PWT term.
Makes sense but when I've done crusty type grows the top bucket has always filled with roots to the bottom. Does this PWT really exist?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Theres literature on pwt, google it, or d9 might have some links already. D9 usually talks about how the greenhouse industries answer to the pwt is taller narrower pots, making the inevitable pwt as small % of the pot as possible. U can still get roots in the pwt, just not as active, and vigorous, as if the pwt was taken away, cause u would end up with a more perfect environment with more oxygen for the roots.

 

[delta9nxs]

i'm thinking that maybe the combination effect of the 3" pipe and the 3.5" medium is close to some kind of lower limit on medium depth plus maybe a little too much hydraulic conductivity. possibly not allowing the moisture retention curve to work right. we may be compressing the moisture retention curve.

but it may work fine with a certain percentage air filled porosity, say 35-40%, and that maybe the drowning is occurring in mediums that are not quite that percentage.

it does look like a combination effect to me.

we have a person here with no problems at all. healthy grow.

other folks with plants in two adjacent rooms in identical containers, being fed the same solution from the same reservoir. in what looks like the same medium, one room experiences drowning and the other doesn't. not some plants in each room.

the only variable that i can think of is medium preparation.

 

[delta9nxs]

Thanks for that, I like 5th was struggling to understand PPKs.
Now I do.
.one quick observation, never heard this PWT term.
Makes sense but when I've done crusty type grows the top bucket has always filled with roots to the bottom. Does this PWT really exist?

hey mack! welcome! the pwt will exist in any medium with a particle size small enough to support adhesion and cohesion.

unfortunately this is most conventional container media because if the particle size is too large to support the pwt it is also too large to have much capillary rise and the container will dry down very fast.

you could compensate by watering more frequently but you will lose the redundancy in watering the ppk provides through capillary rise.

and the safety of a continuous water supply in all conditions.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Finally got the room up and running, thanks to the help of everyone here. Still have a few things to do before the room is operating at peak efficiency but it's nice to see some plants in there right now.

I have 10 plants going with 2400w out of a total 8600w at this moment because I need to get the mini-split working (that's a discussion for a different thread). The room will eventually hold 12 plants with the lights in a checkerboard pattern and the 4 corners running 2 at a time on a flip.

I still need to get the CO2 tanks, build a humidifier, and power veg a little before I can flip the lights.

I'm running a wave-pulse and also need to build some diy halos for better water dispersion. The plants are looking a little droopy right now because I believe I need to adjust my air gap a bit. It's sitting on the close side to 3" and I'd like to bring it closer to 4". I am feeding for 35s every 75min but I'd like opinions on what's recommended.

Initially, I tried to build my pulse reservoir out of yellow-top totes connected together with 2" PVC and uniseals but some of the connections leaked. I switched to a 70gal reservoir and a 2" diy bulkhead which seems to be doing the trick. I'd like more water capacity but I'll deal with that later.

I built a 2"pvc drain loop and 1-1/2" feed loop around the room. I used av8or's idea of plumbing the drain hose directly into the drilled 2" pvc without fittings and it worked great. Coincidentally,I did have leaks on the feed side where the hose connected to the barb fittings.

I also learned that vertical bulbs are VERY hot. I brushed against one with a REI dry fit shirt and the shirt melted to the bulb....twice.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. I'll post more pictures and start a diary once I have some more free time and everything is done.

Here's a little teaser....