A novel experiment the effect of environment on the selection of cannabinoid content

[DocLeaf]

[
Note: terminological differences always arises when horticulturalists and botanists sit down to talk about plants; throw in personality, nationality and methodology and we are not always gonna see eye 2 eye

 

[Guest]

Hi Zam,


Nowhere did I say you were a cop but now that you mention it, Lol!

My post was just eliminating any doubt

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 3 characters.

1 2 3 there

 

[zamalito]

Well, I guess we're more alike than I thought afropips. Its good to know porkies means deceptive practices and not law enforcement. I've heard british use pigs, oinkers, etc as slang for law enforcement I figured pork and its many oh so useful and scrumptuous by-products were included.

I promise I'll hold off on my use of the word cracker unless describing a politician or businessman.

 

[DocLeaf]

^^^ lol

hey Zam England is a funny old place

a 'jam sandwhiches' is pig car, the pigs we call the 'Rossers', 'the rasher' or 'the bacon'. my man calls dem 'figs' cause them sticky n shit,,, some folk call dem 'the beast', 'babylom', or just 'bastards'... they inhabit a 'sty' or a 'station' and employ 'yellow-feds' (traffic-wardens) Sid (CID) and vice (vice squad).

take a butchers hook (look) at this link to 'Cockney Rhyming Slang'

http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/

this is street language in it's rawest form... the words are constantly changing, depending upon location, culture, ethnicity. thus modern slang allows linguistic communion between those with the same base of dialect,,, much like Jamaican pattu,,, it allows secret-tongues, that the pigs canna hear :wink:

peace out dLeaf

 

[Guest]

dL thats nuts

sorry for being off subject

So what were we doing here again?

Hows the research going Zam

 

[DocLeaf]

Black Colombian

Black Colombian

zamalito : Black Colombian x Skunk

jah bless mee brethren
DocLeaf

 

[zamalito]

Afropips I'd like to go back to discussing the effects of latitude.

Ok here is the know all end all overgrow post on the effects of latitude on chemotype.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...violet+cbgv&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&ie=UTF-8

as had been said previously UV-B increases cbg production which is thusly thc production. While uv-b is shown to increase thc content, little research has been done to show the effect of uv-b on cannabis over multiple generations. Also there isn't any concrete identification of whether the amount of resin is increased overall or if it is an increase in resin purity that is the culprit. Another question that has not been answered is if the plant in a high uvb environment devoted energy to thc or resin production would the energy be redevoted to fiber or foliage production in a low uv-b environment.

In another suggested experiment someone mentioned seeing if ultraviolet light increase thcv production. While I do not doubt that it does since the mechanism that produces thcv is identical to that which produces thc, it seems highly unlikely that the ratio of thcv to thc would be altered.

As previously stated thcv biosynthesis is identical to thc biosynthesis. The difference is the precurser thcv starts with C10 olivetolic acid whereas thc starts with C12 olivetolic acid. All cannabinoids synthesized from C10 olivetolic have a propyl side chain whereas C12 olivetolic produces the more common cannabinoids with a 5 carbon side chain (heptyl). C10 OA is then converted into the propyl form of cbg (cbgv) and from that point its either cbdv or thcv. Also in high drug content cannabis there is usually very little cbg or cbgv that has not been converted.

There is no published evidence that uv-b favors the synthesis ov C10 olivetolic ocid over C12. So there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that ultraviolet light has anymore than a minor effect on thc/thcv ratio.

As far as my experiment I have put it on hold since the breeding and cultivation history of the malawi seeds is so unknown. If they were feral like I'd thought I would be able to replicate it to some degree. So the experiment is put on hold until I can find proven wild type 1 seeds of another origin. Since uv-b is very likely to enhance thc content it seems that the equatorial photoperiod would further enhance thc content. Lower latitudes receive more daylight from the autumn equinox to the spring equinox. This means lower latitudes receive more uv-b during the period when resin production at its highest.

Don't you feel that much could be learned from this experiment if a seed was used with a more reproduceable breeding technique?

As far as your experiment with using ultraviolet light to increase thcv:thc ratio could you provide links or citings to any evidence as to why you think this would work. I have yet to see any evidence to support your theory.

 

[afropips]

Hiya Zam,
Thanks for the info.

I feel that much could be learned from your experiment if
proven wild type 1 seeds could be acquired.

The experiment I mentioned is not my experiment
The grower I mentioned that was going to attempt the experiment obviously
has there reasons for attempting to find some answers.
They did mention that no lab measuring equipment will be used so the results
will be purely subjective.

Cool Runnings.........

 

[zamalito]

Cool thanks for the info,

Could it be we're finally in agreement? Lol

I hate to admit it but at one point there I was fairly angy with you. I'm glad things worked out. And hopefully we both learned something. I know I did. Thanks again.

 

[zamalito]

I wish I was on overgrow and got a chance to talk to that guy bobby digital. From the looks of that post it seemed he really had his shit together.

 

[afropips]

Cool Zam,
It took a while with some misunderstanding & frustration on my side
but I am glad we got there in the end.

Thanks, I believe we all learned someting!
Keep up the Enthusiasm & Preservation of the sacred herb.

Cool Runnings...........

 

[DocLeaf]

Hi Zam, Afropips, and all

I n I cannot help you with the chemotype or the effect of uv-b on thcv or anything bontanical like this (t'is far to advance for us... ). However, we can put up some observations on the subject of environ over genotype in relation to phenotypical difference in fibre content and phyllotaxy in Cannabis:

- plant structure/phayllotaxy in cannabis (IMO) is the result of climate over genotype across successive generations. Typically, indica plants grow short and compact so as to maintain metabolism in cold, arid climates; thick leaf, dense flowers, high resin/oil content: all of which preserve water and deter animals. Typically, sativa plants are the opposite, sativa grow taller with longer internodal spacing so as to easily transpire under warmer/stagnant climates, and to as compete with surrounding flora (which also grow tall); sativa carry milder toxins since mammailian competition is less (due to hieght of plants).

When sativa species are taken into regions with photoperiods that best suit indica species, for example we can look at both Durban Poison and Yumbolt (one in N. hem. one in S. hem.) we notice that the phenotype starts to make influencial/baring over the initial geneotype. These plants, whilst still exhibiting the resin structure (THC content) of their sativa ancestors, alter their phayllotaxy so as to suit their new surrounds. Domestication and procreation obviously interrupts any natural process of survival, but generally speaking sativa plants can adapt themselves to suit new environs over a relatively short number of generations.

When indica plants are taken into regions whereby tempreature is maintained at a constant level, we notice that certain indica species (say for example afghans) alter phayllotaxy slightly, preferring to shoot at the nodes. The plants need to conserve water and maintain metabolism is therefore less pronounced than within landrace species of the same cultivar. The same may be said for pigment in leaf which is more noticeable with cold evening temps.

To conclude, the effects of climate in relation to geographical latitude (and longitude) in populations of cannabis holds a direct, if not subtle, influence over phayllotaxy; which ultimately dictates fibre content.

it's good to see everyone back on the same old track
"trails of victory we shall walk..."
peace out dL

 

[Reign of Terror]

Hi Zam, Afropips, and all

I n I cannot help you with the chemotype or the effect of uv-b on thcv or anything bontanical like this (t'is far to advance for us... ). However, we can put up some ideas about the subject of environment over genotype in relation to phenotypical difference in fibre content and phyllotaxy in cannabis:

- plant structure/phayllotaxy in cannabis (IMO) is the result of climate over genotype across successive generations. Typically, indica plants grow short and compact so as to maintain metabolism in cold arid climates, thick leaf, dense flowers, high resin/oil content: all of which preserve water. Typically, sativa plants grow tall with longer internodal spacing so as to easily transpire in warmer climates and so as compete with surrounding flora; milder toxins since mammailian competition is less (due to hieght).

When sativa species are taken into regions with photoperiods that best suit indica species (for example Durban Poison and Yumbolt), the phenotype starts to take influencial/baring over the initial geneotype. The plants, whilst still exhibiting the resin structure (THC content) of their sativa ancestors, alter their phayllotaxy so as to suit their new surrounds. domestication and procreation obviously interrupts any natural process, but generally speaking sativa plants can adapt themselves to suit environ over a relatively short number of generations.

really nice post docleaf, it makes a lot of sense

 

[DocLeaf]

thanks Reign of Terror

Note: tempreature also holds a direct influence over the texture of the actual leaf, regardless of species-cultivar. the difference between crest and valley on the same hill can alone exhibit varying extremes in environment and thus phenotype

peace

 

[Reign of Terror]

lol

so i heard on Quiejo (best landrace forums) that columbian gold is not indigenous and that it came from india. if this is so, how long do you think it took to adapt to the columbian climate and change its characterisitcs?

 

[DocLeaf]

about 200-300 years,,, across Espanic exploration of S. America and Asia.

...those colombians also turn black/purple when cold.. lol

 

[Reign of Terror]

wow...i never knew it took that long, i thought the drastic eviromental change would would change a strains properties after a good amount of generations. Not centuries lol, thx for that one, always wondered.

so what came first...

not the chicken or the egg, cause it was obviously the chicken lol (evolution).

but was it indica or sativa???

 

[DocLeaf]

if we follow the pattern of other 'narcotic plant species', we find that certain species that inhabit a harsh upland environ, say in the Hindu Kush, are soon procreated downland :wink:

However, since Cannabis has been around since the Jurassic period (when things where big),,, who knows,,, maybe plants were much bigger back then ... lol

peace

 

[DocLeaf]

wow...i never knew it took that long, i thought the drastic eviromental change would would change a strains properties after a good amount of generations. Not centuries lol, thx for that one, always wondered.

Ok, yo got us thinking

It must be species-cultivar related. For example, Humbolt/Yumbolt is a sativa dom. cultivar from Cambodia, Laos, or Vietnam. The strain was procreated by hand in California, via an intensive program of selective breeding. The aim was to change the structure to make the strain squat and small... ( the tall sativa type was easily seen and captured by the law/theives after a change in the law),,, as a result Yumbolt is a compact sativa, the flowers, and high are sativa,,,, however the stature/structure is typically indica to the laypersons eye :wink: The strain was developed since the Vietnamese war,,, hence during the past 30 years.

In conclusion: wild populations of introduced species take much longer to homogenize themselves with respect to structure/form, than those procreated intentionally by hand

peace n bloom
DocLeaf

 

[spicecowboy]

This is a really great thread.


All I wanna say so far....



One Love,


spice