A novel experiment the effect of environment on the selection of cannabinoid content

[zamalito]

THE EFFECT OF ENVIRONMENT ON CHEMOTYPE OF WILD DRUG CANNABIS SATIVA L. OVER MULTIPLE GENERATIONS

Ok I've started an experiment some of you might fine interesting. Unfortunately the results will only be able to be measured through subjective bioassay and no objective method of measuring potency and chemotype is available to me yet. Hopefully by the time this experiment is finished I will have access to a gas chromatagraph . Also I have a concern about males pollinating flowers that are not part of this experiment so selections will be made outdoors cuttings will be made then the males will be culled.

The goal of this experiment is to see if a strain of wild malawi plants can retain chemotype and potency over multiple generations of selection based purely on size early fertility vigorous growth and reproductive success in a temperate climate. Unfortunately the methods of selection will be fairly subjective also and I will try to make my selections based on their overall reproductive success in the temperate climate I live and will try to slightly exagerate this to speed up the process and simulate a more northern climate. 50 seeds picked directly from wild plants in malawi were germinated in february and kept in a cold frame until this week. The plants are placed in holes of a standard size supplemented with lime high quality compost 3 year old chicken manure and slow release organic nutrient rock phosphate and greensand. Supplemental nutrient and water will only be provided the continued success of the experiment is in danger because of a lack of water or nutrient. Supplemental nutrient beyond what was put in the holes is probably unnecesarry as the nutrient and requirements of the wild malawi are very low. Only what is neccessarry to allow the experiment to continue and if provided at all will be provided evenly to each specimen. No insect prevention will be used. Animal prevention will be provided through a perimeter of blood meal around the plants and bottles filled with coton and coyote urine will be placed near the plants. After sexing cuttings will be taken off of the most successful males. The males will then be culled. The cuttings will be taken to another location. Pollen from one cutting of each plant will be mixed together then applied to the most successful females that have no health or insect problems. Pollen will be applied from the very earliest stages of flowering to select for plants that show early fertility and allow the plants that show early fertility to produce a larger portion of seeds. If drought occurs during seed production plants will be allowed to wilt to select for plants that can protect seeds from drought since rain and humidity tend to be less frequent in temperate climate though my climate is still fairly humid. After harvest unseeded flowers will be sampled and stored for later generational comparison. Seeded flowers will be dried using a standardized method sieved using a standardized method using an equal weight of flowers for an equal amount of time at an equal temperature and humidity in a tumbler. Resin yield and physical characteristics will be noted. It will be sampled then will be vacuum sealed and stored frozen for future comparison. Leaves will be taken from a standard location on each plant on the same dates and maturity stages every year and will be analyzed with a refractometer. Results will be noted. On predetermined dates and maturity stages samples of floral clusters will be taken from a standardized location on each plant. Trichome height density and gland head size will be noted.

Any of you guys have any suggestions on things I should do differently? Any advice or reasons why this experiment might not produce usable results will be welcomed.

 

[Raco]

"The goal of this experiment is to see if a strain of wild malawi plants can retain chemotype and potency over multiple generations of selection based purely on size early fertility vigorous growth and reproductive success in a temperate climate."
Cool project,good luck!!
But remember that temperate climates such like here @ 43ºN,a humid place all year-round will lead to fully acclimated plants that change chemotype and loose their value as psychoactive cannabis...I´ve seen big trees around here that were from 3rd or 4th generation..very healthy and uniform,that´s true,but the growers(me included) much prefered the imported herb from Africa or South America,or moroccan or lebanese hash....
We called the domestic weed just "paisana",local product,whatever....we just called it "homegrown",and at that time there was not skunk here in Europe,and I still remeber a group of growers trying to find by all means any of the original angoplese seeds that they started with sooo many years ago,their goal was finding males of the original P strain to pollinate their line-bred acclimated "paisanas",in an effort to regain potency,to get the "fire" back.Unfortunately,they never found those seeds.I´ve lost contact with those guys..this happened almost 25 years ago

 

[zamalito]

Hey Raco glad you stopped by. I was getting discouraged at the lack of interest and I very much respect your opinion. What you said is oddly what I am expecting will happen. Interestingly the same thing happened here where I live with a guy who was a very large scale southern grower who gre from mexican and columbian seeds he got in the mid 80s. A few of the guys including him that had been working the same strains into the ground were arrested by the fbi last year though. It turned out he'd bought the sherrif a new house and had been giving the local prosecutor plenty of money. It was a regular good ole boy network based on some very shoddy breeding. They had worked it to being some quite good skunk in the late 80's by the mid 90's the quality had suffered so the main grower had separated two lines one for commercial the other for personal. This is when quality seriously took a quick downturn. I'm not sure what ended up happening with the personal smoke line but the one bred for commercial production eventually got really weak and ended up going from a pungent golden fluffy skunk that looked just like nice imported columbian bud (not a single pistil was visible in the dried bud oddly just like some old columbians) to around the year 2000 where it was really weak hairy and tasted like soggy white bread. But I have stated this point of view before and it seems many disagree and feel that if this was true noone would've been able to breed the great strains of the pacific northwest. I am very interested to see the changes in the physical structure that take place in the strain along with the chemical. I am thinking I will breed a line where parents are selected for small bushy stereotypical drug pheno. The well spoken arguments of daytripper made me think there's a small possibility that thc served no function and a lack of thc served no deficit of function in malawi. If that's true then it would mean the plants are true breeding for high potency and won't show a substantial decrease over 5 years of feral style breeding in my climate. Though I feel it is likely they will show a substantial loss in potency.

Basically one hypothesis is the fact that the strain had been bred by man to be high potency for so long is the reason it maintained potency even after being wild for a very long time. So now the plants are true breeding for high potency and since thc has no function in the survival of the plant in the region of origin then the potency of the variety will stay the same.

Personally I feel that IF thc or the mechanism that produces thc has no evironmental function in malawi then the plants would've lost their potency a long time ago. Also the growers in my climate used selection methods very similar to those of the indigenous growers who possibly bred many of the equatorial drug varieties from hemp strains. The crazy thing about wild malawis is that eventhough the plants obviously aren't the most potent in malawi they are definitely more potent than other cultivated varieties in nearby parts of africa.

So I guess the experiment is more to see how breeding in my environent based on structural traits effects chemotype and potency. I think a few vaulable lessons will be learned from this either way. I know I'l be using a lot of space time and energy where I could be growing top quality herb but instead breeding something I am expecting to become weak but hoping it won't.

 

[guineapig]

I can't believe i didn't see this until now......we are alike minds for sure!!!!

Here's what i have read in scientific journals:

The Overall Chemotype, that is to say the ratios between cannabinoids such as THC, CBD and CBN, is determined genetically and is indedpendent of the environment.....

However, overall cannabinoid percentages can be RAISED or LOWERED depending on environmental issues such as weather, geography, UV levels, insect damage, or factors as of yet unknown......

Gas Chromatographs are great toys to have!!

gp

 

[guineapig]

The goal of your experiment is absolutely essential for growers and breeders alike:

"The goal of this experiment is to see if a strain of wild malawi plants can retain chemotype and potency over multiple generations of selection based purely on size early fertility vigorous growth and reproductive success in a temperate climate."

Because many times growers wind up choosing the individual plants which grow, flower, and clone the most vigorously.....So, are we killing off all of the elite plants in our quest for the most robust and hardy plant? Breeders also need to know this, for obvious reasons.....

Unfortunately research into actual cannabis plants is absolutely prohibited except under certain circumstances and in certain countries.....

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

I have to agree with Raco. Genetics is something that transforms continuously, there's no such thing as consistency in nature, since genetics will never reproduce themselves into exact copies (cloning is something different). Even in their natural habitat, the Malwai is bound to change over generations (I've only heard the term Chemotype used with aromatic plants, but why not?) due to X internal and external (environmental) factors. The size of the genepool is what decides the acceleration of genetic drift. Small, isolated groups of a certain species tend to drift quicker than large genepools.

 

[afropips]

Hiya All,
Just from reading the various threads there seems to be
some confusion over the Landrace / Wild varieties terminology.

The description on the StrainGuide explains it :-
A cultivated crop species that has evolved from wild populations due to selective pressures from traditional farmers is called a landrace.

There really is no such thing as Wild Malawi.
All Malawi varieties have been selectively bred for vigour, potency
pest & disease resistance over numerous generations.
There is a Huge Genepool of mediocre Malawi Varieties that the regular grower
cultivates. To find the Most Potent varieties you have to hook up with growers that have been selecting ,cloning & regenerating for generations in Malawi.
These established growers are few & far between & takes some time in the country
to hook up to.
I see this beeing the similar case for all First Grade Landrace Varieties on the planet.
Many are still out there , they just need to be hunted.
Which Involves Plenty Cash & Perils.
Bandits, Corrupt cops & Malaria often go's hand in hand with searching for these gems.

Only when you have done the searching, testing & selecting yourself can
you be 100% sure of exactly what you have.

There is a lot of renaming & rebadging & combining varieties these days
for example - Varieties with Congo in the name have very little of genuine potent congelese varieties in there make up - Overpriced Name Hype on the back of DJ shorts experience with supposedly genuine congo weed.
Its the the same with Durban , Swazi & Lesotho Varieties.

Its even a possibility that some more attainable Brazilian varieties are posing as
Angolan & Congelese Varieties.

I read somewhere Cannabis was originally cultivated from wild plants for the nutritional value of the seeds.
Based on archeological evidence discovered in the congo that predates other cultures
that are known for there "Hallucigenic" Varieties.

Malawi is probably derived from Combining African & Asian Varieties decades before the Skunkman made the first hybrid.

My experience with African growers goes back to the early 80's
in the Transkei when I learnt how to take cuttings (clone) from the Herbalist Julius
who had the Top First Grade Transkei Weed.
There are also some other top varieties from the Transkei like
Lusikisiki Green & Mdumbi Red.
When I stayed there a couple of months there was some Dutch guys that came
& purchased a fair amount that they packed into a computer & sent back to Holland.
Perhaps this is what is called Durban these days.
Durban Poison was originally rolled into sticks or pencils & it still is.
(the short sticks are also known as slugs or dumpies)

Cool Runnings.......

 

[Guest]

tag

 

[zamalito]

I'm amazed you guys brought up my older thread. I really really didn't think anyone was interested. I guess someone was snoopin' into my older threads. GP I'm gonna call you snoopy from now on, hehe. Anyway I was thinking about abandoning the project due to a lack of interest.

Rosy what raco said is what I'm also expecting will happen. You're right about the environment and genepools both being in a constant state of flux. I personally believe that there's a genetic mechanism that as an organism acclimates to an environment with little climatic fluctuation the organism gradually becomes more and more genetically dominant. This prevents the organism from being drastically offset by a temporary short term climatic changes. This would be the same mechanism that causes wild varieties to be dominant over cultivated varieties since cultivated varieties generally change more quickly over time than varieties outside of cultivation. Also you're right about small's research however from what I was told the wild stand that these seeds came from was quite small so the genepool represented in the seeds I'm growing will hopefully be close to what was in this stand.

Afropips if I could pick your brain for a moment. Perhaps I should've said feral instead of wild. I was told by a very close and trusted friend that my feral malawi were from buds taken from a stand of herb growing feral in malawi slightly different from what you and greenthumb call wild malawi in reference to the inferior seeds sold by african seed co. and the lower quality herb available in south africa. It is possible that these weren't feral and were ripped off of some poor africans' crop (I don't know and wasn't there). What makes me believe that they are feral is the gene pool seems noticeably larger than other malawis I've grown and they are even more dominant than normal (which I didn't think was possible) when hybridized. They also show a great deal of size variation compared to the other malawis I've grown and comparatively can get quite small in stature while still retaining the general floral structure and maturation pattern of a typical malawi. Along with the lowest nutrient requirements I've ever seen while still being capable of handling higher nutrient concentrations without burn. Do you know if feral cannabis exists in malawi?

Also though I hope you're wrong I think you may be correct about the red angola variety being circulated. It just has too much similarity to the red brazilian strains. I actually thought at first if it was supposed to be from angol, brazil because of this similarity. On the issue of the congolese cannabis however I'm wondering more specifically what you mean when saying they contain very little original congolese genetics. If you go back far enough all cannabis in africa was brought by man and no african cannabis is wild or contains any original african genes. Are you saying the modern congolese varieties are inventions of the last 5 years? 100 years? 1000 years? I do think the possibility of something being passed off as congolese since the djshort article is likely. However mel frank and rc clarke both made frequent mention of congolese cannabis available in the mid-late 80's. There's mention of both a brazzaville and a less specific congolese variety. Also since the borders of congo have varied greatly over the last 15 years things are complicated even more. The seeds of my congolese aren't solid red/brown like every other p1 african seed I've obtained but I have a hard time getting that color when I breed f2's which is weird mine are always more dark grey like the congolese I have and less redish brown like seeds I've gotten straight from africa. Also do you believe that the congolese are growing something different than they did 20 years ago?

 

[zamalito]

Perhaps the congolese varieties could be compared to the chitral nepalese and kashmiri indicas. 30 years ago these areas were cultivating strictly sativa varieties that were all quite similar. However the introduction of indica shanged this rapidly to being regions of indica cultivation. Though it is not the true variety of this region these are still viable and useful breeding stock each with their own characteristics.

 

[OGlurker]

I really really didn't think anyone was interested.

Don't underestimate the half-educated rural Southern hobby outdoor grower lurker population--genetic drift in feral cannabis populations is very interesting to us. Keep up the good work.

 

[Guest]

Hehe, actually, I linked GP the thread in the Chat area, Zam

I dont exactly remember how the topic came about though.

I always try to link people to landrace related topics if they seem interested.

 

[aeric]

My layman, uneducated guess is that the "selection" for high THC that nature makes is caused by just the right kind of environmental stress. -As it is with with many medicinal/psychoactive plants. For example phalaris grass needs drought like conditions, at the right stage in it's life, to produce the best dmt.

I applaud your ideas Zam, but an experiment of that level requires a legal, more supportive environment than most countries of the world...when that day comes many great experiemnts such as yours will commence...QUICKLY.

 

[Guest]

don't stop posting if no one seems intrested most are lurkers who read and never post. i for one would love to hear your journey to your own selection of the malawii. i find the way u type very thoughtfull so carry on and let the good times roll.

*P.S. i wonder if you will get that golden color off your buds everyone will look for in the malawii. enjoy

 

[solrebl]

Well I must stay this interests me too. I've gotten some seeds of jamaiican and thai origin (all hybrids though) from the Netherlands and I intend to grow them in a mostly dry environment in the highlands. Based on my readings, the environment here would promote THC concentration and might even increase the potency of my plants! However Genetic drift is also a real concern as I will have a small poulation I can handle, due to the size the plants may reach. So I guess God willing, if I'm done with my own experiment I will post what I find...though this may take many years indeed.

Good luck to all.

 

[Raco]

Great to see that this thread is still alive!
A s I´ve said,I live in a humid place.Plants can grow really huge around here.They will show an exuberant green foliage and vigorous growth,also big colas....
Well,the point is that I´ve sent hundreds of seeds for many years to places much more suitable for cannabis-drug production,normally (down) south from here;and I noticed that those developed more resin in the bud leaves,had much less leaves,less chlorophyl,and the leaves turned yellow and died much earlier than their sisters grown in my location.In fact,the quality was superior,due to much dryer environment.
However,I think that the cannabinoid profile was the same.The inland grown plants were better in many aspects,although the seeds were produced in coastal humid conditions (and low altitude)

 

[zamalito]

Raco, I'm so glad to see you here. Fritzman is running my zamal line in brazil and he's getting crazy amounts of leaf resin on what he's grown and bred. You couldn't imagine what he's done with the celestial temple sativa. It has more resin than I've ever seen on any pure sativa period. I was blown away when I saw the pics. It may be that he's just a much better breeder than I am but I really think that there's something else going on. Thus the creation of this thread.

 

[afropips]

Hiya,
There is no feral Malawi Varieties in Malawi that I know of.
I guess there is the remotest possibility of the seeds beeing transported by birds to
a wild location but then It will still be there in the middle of knowhere
where it can't be found by man.
If it is found it won't be that many generations removed from all the other Malawi Varieties that are cultivated by man in the area.
Pollen from North African plantations even reach as far as Spain.

You must also remember Malawi is one of the most poorest nations & a densely populated place where there is much food shortage & starvation right now so I would guess they are from a cultivated stand or possibly even from my stock.
You won't find a single fruit bearing tree or bush that has not been acounted for
where man can reach it. The wild birds , rats, mice , Lake flies , grasshoppers & other insects are all on the menu.
If only it was Legal to produce Ganja & Hemp & it could help Malawi out of Poverty.

Outdoors in the Southern Hemisphere is definately the best place to grow
if you have the right variety that does well outdoors & that can see it through the rainy season without getting too much mould.

I am sure it has to do with the amount of UV light the plants receive due to the angle of the sun in the S.Hemi.
There is a grower in California that mentioned they will be growing some Afropips Malawi Varieties Indoors that will be experimenting with additional UV lamps to discover the effects on the amount of THCV produced.

I will keep you posted.

Cool Runnings..........

 

[The Dopest]

Don't underestimate the half-educated rural Southern hobby outdoor grower lurker population--genetic drift in feral cannabis populations is very interesting to us. Keep up the good work.

whut he said^

 

[Chamba]

THE EFFECT OF ENVIRONMENT ON CHEMOTYPE OF WILD DRUG CANNABIS SATIVA L. OVER MULTIPLE GENERATIONS

in my opinion the environment has some effect over multiple generations..but misguided human selection (or early winters) plays a far greater role in determining how the bud will smoke up like in after 3 or 4 years of crossing landrace strains in higher Latitudes .....​

Ok I've started an experiment some of you might fine interesting. Unfortunately the results will only be able to be measured through subjective bioassay and no objective method of measuring potency and chemotype is available to me yet.

measuring potency via bioessay on ganja is like measuring alcohol content on wine - it only give some idea, not a total of how good it is.......only smoking and then re-smoking , then comparing well grown and cured bud will give you a clue how good the bud is...​

Hopefully by the time this experiment is finished I will have access to a gas chromatagraph . Also I have a concern about males pollinating flowers that are not part of this experiment so selections will be made outdoors cuttings will be made then the males will be culled.

I used to grow dozens of Thais on a small mountain ..3 or 4 square miles.....I always grew from seed in pots then transplanted in the earth when a 6 inches ~ one foot in size, I lightly seeded most femmes and always had a few males here and there in various stages of growth during the year and never seemed to have females pollenated by wind..in my opinion the fear of errant seeding is over-rated​

The goal of this experiment is to see if a strain of wild malawi plants can retain chemotype and potency over multiple generations of selection

you mentioned the Malawi seeds were from an unknown single source? is that right?...then I think you should get yourself a few packs from Afropips as well...cos who knows just how good they are? Let's hope they are killer Chambe! more likely it's just from average bud ..not exceptional..listen to Afropips!​

based purely on size early fertility vigorous growth and reproductive success in a temperate climate.

and that's the reason why you'll most probably find that later generations will lack "punch".......for the first year, if I were you, I'd use every male that pops up (short, big, late and early etc) because you don't know which ones will pass on the traits you want......smoke the girls and keep the seeds from the buds that gives your brain the right "zing-ding-a-ling"​

Unfortunately the methods of selection will be fairly subjective also and I will try to make my selections based on their overall reproductive success in the temperate climate I live and will try to slightly exagerate this to speed up the process and simulate a more northern climate.

when growing tropical strains in temperate zones ..you won't have a problem getting them seeded, but depending on how wet or cold the Fall and Winter is where you are growing, it's getting the girls to finish is the problem you'll face​

50 seeds picked directly from wild plants in malawi were germinated in february and kept in a cold frame until this week.

if they were in a cold frame 'till now ...it must be a fairly short season where you are....let's hope you get some to finish...I've never grown any Malawi plants before..but have grown several tropical and equatorial strains in a very humid sub-tropical zone...most are not mature until late November ~ late January..and you might even get the odd one that won't finish and will reveg in Spring as the days lengthen!​

The plants are placed in holes of a standard size supplemented with lime high quality compost 3 year old chicken manure and slow release organic nutrient rock phosphate and greensand.

sounds like you have doen your research!........but I've found that loose, deep plots that are lightly fertilized will give better results than smallish holes with rich mixes....also due to the long growth and flowering of tropical strains you'll find that you'll need to add organic ferts with equal amounts of N, P & K in early to mid flowering..or they will drop leaves too early and yield will suffer....many tropical strains will flower for 3 ~ 5 months or more​

Supplemental nutrient and water will only be provided the continued success of the experiment is in danger because of a lack of water or nutrient.

the deeper the plot, the less you'll need to water...another thing to do is to dig the plots and grow on the mounds and the hole you dig can be lined with plastic, cammo-ed with branches and will fill with rainwater...water is heavy to carry!....and with a bit of luck the pool and a good season will supply most of your watering needs during dry spells..also cover the "dam" to prevent evaporation!​

Supplemental nutrient beyond what was put in the holes is probably unnecesarry as the nutrient and requirements of the wild malawi are very low.Only what is neccessarry to allow the experiment to continue and if provided at all will be provided evenly to each specimen.

that's the idea! you might find that the ferts will be too rich earlier on and a little lacking later on...the thing to do is just be a good gardener and anticipate each plant's needs!​

No insect prevention will be used.

those Africans might have great resistance in Africa but could be over-run with mites or whatever in your locale.......anyway healthy, happy plants tend to beat most insect infestations.​

Animal prevention will be provided through a perimeter of blood meal around the plants and bottles filled with coton and coyote urine will be placed near the plants.

After sexing cuttings will be taken off of the most successful males. The males will then be culled. The cuttings will be taken to another location.

that's one way......males will blow their load a long time before the fems are really ready for seedling...so another way is to cut the males down so jsut a few lower branches are left ( a small branch will supply enough pollen for thousands of seeds) about a few weeks before pollen starts dropping....this will give the femmes a few weeks to catch up and you can then just lightly seed a few lower female branches to get hundreds of seeds.​

Pollen from one cutting of each plant

taking cuttings in the bush can risky..as is, they might fail and then what are you left with?....I used to push down males horizontal to the ground and remove half the branches and most of the tips - this will retard them by a month and then you'll have pollen .​

will be mixed together then applied to the most successful females that have no health or insect problems.

define "successful"......often the plants with the best highs (and that's what's it's all about . right?) are not the pretty, tall, bushy or healthy ones...

the secret to breeding is not to guess during growth, but to taste and select after curing !​

Pollen will be applied from the very earliest stages of flowering to select for plants that show early fertility and allow the plants that show early fertility to produce a larger portion of seeds.

that is a mistake in my opinion......by selecting earlier flowerers, the next generation will mostly probably be weaker...check out a good book on cannabis breeding..as they discuss this at length​

If drought occurs during seed production plants will be allowed to wilt to select for plants that can protect seeds from drought since rain and humidity tend to be less frequent in temperate climate though my climate is still fairly humid.

again, by selecting in that way you are inadvertantly selecting against potency and selecting for those who will survive the early Winter​

After harvest unseeded flowers will be sampled and stored for later generational comparison. Seeded flowers will be dried using a standardized method sieved using a standardized method using an equal weight of flowers for an equal amount of time at an equal temperature and humidity in a tumbler.

just smoke em and keep seeds from the plants that gies the best buzz!​

Resin yield and physical characteristics will be noted. It will be sampled then will be vacuum sealed and stored frozen for future comparison. Leaves will be taken from a standard location on each plant on the same dates and maturity stages every year and will be analyzed with a refractometer. Results will be noted. On predetermined dates and maturity stages samples of floral clusters will be taken from a standardized location on each plant. Trichome height density and gland head size will be noted.

it all sounds very scientific!........but keep in mind that a the best wine is not selected by robots...the prettiest girls are not selcted by a mathematical formula.....and the best bud is not selected by a guy in a white lab coat ...in addition to science...try to smoke em and then note the results, then hand some out to mates and let them tell you which ones are best!..that's how it's done​

Any of you guys have any suggestions on things I should do differently? Any advice or reasons why this experiment might not produce usable results will be welcomed.

best of luck!