A Basic Compost Tea Guide

[CT Guy]

I have used a power jet for fish tanks would this be considered damaging?

V

I'm not sure what a power jet is, can you send me a link? Typically, you can't overaerate, the issue is more the dispersion of the air into the tank (bubbles are too small or too large, or not equally dispersed around the tank, creating dead zones.

 

[Guest]

CT Guy -

Years ago I used a suppliment called BananaMana or something. Don't know if it increased oil and flavour, but I thought why not add banana to my teas? So for a little while I have been doing just that. I have added them mashed up and also after going to ripe to eat. No harm done to the garden. I imagine there is some sugar, K, and other macro/micros.

Any thoughts?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Compost Teas with fruit

Compost Teas with fruit

CT Guy -

Years ago I used a suppliment called BananaMana or something. Don't know if it increased oil and flavour, but I thought why not add banana to my teas? So for a little while I have been doing just that. I have added them mashed up and also after going to ripe to eat. No harm done to the garden. I imagine there is some sugar, K, and other macro/micros.

Any thoughts?

In the book "Teaming With Microbes" in the section discussing aerated compost teas are guidelines for using overripe fruits. In the case of bananas it best to let them go until the skins are completely dark/black when the sugar levels would be highest.

I use berries, bananas, apples, pears, melons, etc. all the time.

HTH

 

[CT Guy]

Good question...to tell you the truth, I have no idea as I've never used them. I would think they would be a good sugar source for bacteria. If I get some free time in the next couple of months, I'll do some experimenting with it as a food source and post the microscope video.

That's our brewer in Jeff's book by the way, and our lab results.

We'll be at the NW Flower and Garden Show in Seattle next week and Jeff is also talking on Friday if anyone is in the area, you should swing by and check it out.

 

[CT Guy]

Wanted to mention that Paul Stamets company, fungi.com, will be there too. He's the mycorrhizae expert.

 

[Guest]

I can't make it being on the other side of the world but I have some questions if you could answer them or ask an expert for me would be most appreciated.

What is the 'typical' radial growth rate (in soil medium) of m and s fungi.

How long does it take from spore before hyphae begin to form so radial growth begins.

Do the temperature preferences for fungi alter from liquid medium to soil.

What are the optimal temps and pH for mycorrhizal and saprophytic fungi.

What other species are positively identified as beneficial to garden plots.

I got plenty more but the above would certainly help for starters. If you know a resource I don't have to pay for where I can learn this species specific type stuff I'm all ears.

 

[Guest]

With regards to the water quality article where ditchwater was the best. I've e-mailed the author hopng to hear back more as 'ditch' tells me little about the environment. I'm thinking moving stream water will be a winner for making teas as much micro-flora and fauna diversity is there in a highly oxygenated environment.

Want to know what lived in the ditch, what plants/shading, waterflow, etc.

 

[Scay Beez]

Azeotrope: Banana Mana and Coco Cat by Tropical Organics are great products. I think they contain enzymes, some sugars, some K. BM has bananas, mangoes, papaya, and other tropical fruit extracts. Coco cat is some kind of coconut milk and water mixture. Adding too much will change the natural flavor of the herb so don't use too much. Coconut water & milk is some awesome stuff for humans and plants. One time I used 1 TBSP/Gallon all throughout veg and flower and my schrom came out normaly but with a slight cherry flavor and smell (~77-80 days). Normally it smells like lemon lime tequilla. Weird.

Azeotrope: Be careful using indian herbs in compost/compost tea because they can be anti-bacterial. Coco cat use to have fermented ginger and garlic in it but has since been removed.

Paul Stamens is the authority on mushies. He is a huge asshole unfortunately.

That's our brewer in Jeff's book by the way, and our lab results.

Nature's Technology or Simplici-tea?


- sbz

 

[Guest]

All my previous questions are now answered - thanks Scay Beez than was an awesome resource exactly how I like it - walked me through with laymans terms. Was it an OFC link I've skipped?

I'm still thinking re-innoculation is a waste of resources if the fungi are already present, unless you are introducing variety. And mono/select cultures seem easier to produce in jars as opposed to petri dishes and liquid.

Innoculation at the point of seed entering soil seems an excellent way to ensure the target miccorhizae associations are formed. However - would sprouting seeds in a damp container with mycelium present be better? This is easily doable for me.

 

[Guest]

Here's what the water quality Author had to say

"The ditch is a concrete trough in a desert from the Columbia River. There is some aquatic plants growing in it and some fish since the Corp of Engineers quit nukeing the trough. Your water sounds great and I would say where you observe the most aerobic aquatic life is the best water to begin with. I hope this answers your questions and helps you produce the greatest number and diversity of microbes."

The ditch was where the best compost tea water came from.

So, who wants to see an ABC of making a basic aquaponic set-up put in this forum. My other thread is long and sidetracked and... y'know, I can do it abridged.

 

[CT Guy]

For the mycorrhizae questions, I'd ask them at www.mycorrhizae.com. They're one of the leaders in the industry.

Simplici-tea is our brewer. In fact, I believe the article you're referring to on the ditch water was written by my father. The info. to really glean from it is that the biology is effected by your water source, so water becomes an important variable when making good teas. Their isn't enough data from what he did to determine which is best based on the one result, but rather that you will have significant variance when using different water sources.

 

[Guest]

Agreed there isn't enough data...

Stream water has long been a 'secret' of good gardeners and some go out of their way to get it. For some a clean stream is too far out of their way - I'm offering the chance to make your own 'stream'.

Stands to reason water with a healthy micro-herd established will seed tea faster.

Very interesting note on Aquaponics. Plants with no micorrhizal connections don't do well at all.

 

[jaykush]

Stream water has long been a 'secret' of good gardeners and some go out of their way to get it. For some a clean stream is too far out of their way

i know when i can i go out of my way to haul gallons of water back for tea and plants. its all about collection site too as each stream has its own microlife i have a few favorite spots that produces quality water for plants and teas year around, this one spot is abut 50ft downstream of this GIANT nettle patch and they are healthy as can be. every plant downstream from that spot for about 1/4 mile is noticeably healthier.

 

[Guest]

Just been at gardening store trying to get nettles. Lady told me she is looking for same thing as certain butterflies breed on them too. Be interesting to grow them in AP and see how that water works...

Jaykush - I know it's posted but there's so much to read I have trouble finding things I've seen but not digested....

Alfalfa and rejuvelac - what do you do, or resource to learn to do, with it. I think it's tea associated. The sprouts are yum with the aqua goodies...

And Smurf - DAMN! You are one seriously skilled dude. Please tell me where I can get recipes for Dandelion Wine, Nettle Soup, Comfrey Tea - that apply to teas. If you had fresh yucca, what would you do to it? And mushroom/fungi compost - do you just get the compost from a mushroom farm for this, or brew your own. I want to brew some, got p. cubensis and mokororae mycelium to start with, and some mushroom compost...

The only fungi products I found were specifically for evergreen trees and were a monoculture (forgot name doh). So, home brewin it is.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Well I finally picked up a bottle of liquid karma today.

My question is is this a product you can use through flowering?

The bottle labels reads you us it in flowering but some find its use optional and VonForne does not use it in at all in flower (according to the recipe).

Also, Can I just continue to brew my ewc/guano/dry molasses teas and add the LK in at serving time like I do with liquid kelp, dry milk and liquid ferts (as needed)?

Also, it was my intention to to alternate between teas with just LK and water.

I am trying to simplify my grow.

So anyway I am going to be blown away from the results of the Liquid Karma?

Thanks,

minds_I


PS. I have noted that the bat guano I first used when bubbled produced a pH of around 8.5.

The bat guano I am using now is a different brand and when bubbled has apH of around 6.5 to 7.

I discovered the error only after giving a tea mix that I thought was a pH adjusted tea to find I had an extremely acidic solution and the plants reacted badly even though they are in orgainc soil with D.lime.

I am hoping the humic acids in the LK will help.

 

[Guest]

I'm making my first fungal tea, and being me, I'm modifying. So lets call this my first fungal tea experiment.

The obvious change is Aloe Vera. What I want to do is cut down the bacteria and encourage fungi. I know the Aloe is anti-bacterial, but will it work in favour of mycelium and fungi?

"Aloe Vera - a mixture of antibiotic, astringent, coagulating agent, pain inhibitor, cell growth stimulator and scar inhibitor. It contains a total of 70 "essential ingredients" including most vitamins including B12, minerals, enzymes, protein and amino acids"

I added mycelium of several types, some of it dry and depleted torn off deadwood. I want to see if it revives or dies in this mix. Some on straw, some on bits of bark, some strands from soil and strands of infected grass roots, and hopefully the spores of many more from the composts.


The Recipe

30 litres of 50/50 rainwater/pondwater
1 kg compost - 3/4 mushroom compost 1/4 assorted mycelium and surrounding material (coffee grounds, sticks, grass, dirt, clay)
25 ml liquid kelp
25 ml fulvic acid
25 ml (approx) fresh squeezed aloe vera gel
25 ml (approx) fresh squeezed alfalfa sprout juice
Small handful rubbed (in hands) oats
Tablespoon skim milk powder
An over-ripe banana skin in chunks.

All biffed in a container with a bubbler, I hand turn it a few times a day as well.

2 days on. Little bit of foam from start. Goes away when I stir it, back a few hours later. Temps have ranged but around 20 degrees.

So far none of the visible mycelium has died, and the leathery stuff's revived.

There doesn't seem to be a bio-film forming rapidly which is good too.

So, I have added a natural anti-bacterial which seems to have at least slowed bacterial growth (and I've tried hard not to feed the bacteria). It doesn't seem to harm mycelium at all but will spore take and hyphae grow in Aloe's presense? And, once this is added to the soil, will it carry on it's anti-bacterial effects to detriment, or is it neutralised as it acts out in the tea solution.

Tough questions to answer...

I will test some of the final tea on a small container of rainwater with a bio-film and see if the film continues to grow or stalls/diminishes. I will also monitor the insect life that feed on bacteria. This may show if the anti-bacterial effects of the Aloe continue after brewing for 3 days.

There are a few ways to skin this cat.

If not happy with this I could add some tea to a small nitrifying bed, then run some ammonia through it and see if it returns nitrate or ammonia.

I will add some of the tea to a batch of straw/oats/coffee grounds and see what pops up, it's the right time of year.

I will run another tea without any visible collected mycelium and do the straw/oats/coffee grounds experiment again, and see what pops up.
This in case only the mycelium I collected spreads.

This should eventually show if spores and less visible mycelium are cultured in the tea or not. I observe my yard very closely, stoner, I know what fungi grow here, and if I create new fungal arrivals with this method, happiness.

After all I've read about fungi this past week, I'm planning to innoculate the crap out of everything!

Look out behind you, it's me with a syringe of tea!

 

[Scay Beez]

If you had fresh yucca, what would you do to it?

Process with an herb or coffee grinder to get a fine powder. You can buy this at a health store because it is used to making shampoo and also ingesting for a digestive, probiotic, and anti-dehydration aid.

You have to be careful when extracting aloe juice/pulp from leaves. Part of the leaves have some chemicals which are harmful to humans. I use aloe vera in my compost teas but I use fractionally distilled to be sure there is nothing bad in there. I've also never heard that aloe was anti-bacteria before. Black Strap Molasses is anti-bacterial until it is diluted (doesn't go bad in the bottle like maple syrup does). The Vedas use aloe and they are some of the earliest macrobiotic dieters in the world (before the term was invented). They don't cook or eat with onions or garlic because of their anti-bacterial effects and treat them as medicine. I usually associate anti-bacterial food/herb items with things vedas don't consume on a normal basis (and because I love the ayurvedic lifestyle). Ginger is another herb that confuses me. It can be fermented which tells me that it isn't totally anti-bacterial and when I cook dishes with tons of ginger (burmese curries) it still goes bad quickly. Lots of things that need figuring out in this arena.

For making things like dandelion wine you might want to look into a book on Wild Fermentation.

And mushroom/fungi compost - do you just get the compost from a mushroom farm for this, or brew your own. I want to brew some, got p. cubensis and mokororae mycelium to start with, and some mushroom compost...

Mushroom compost is basically ground up mycellium after the mushies have fruited. Just make sure they are not infested with fungus gnats before using. To make your own you would basically start with compost that has fungi in it and mix some corn syrup or oatmeal with the compost and let it sit covered for about three or four days and you should be getting some growth on the compost. Then use that to innoculate your compost tea.
Also depending on what substrate you used to grow the mushies could have benefit for your plants (hint hint barley).

minds_I: Yeah, LK is cool to use throughout the entire plant's life. LK has sugar cane which is a poor sugar to use for compost teas because it makes the bacteria grow too fast. It can be used but I'd add it to the tea after it has been brewed IME. Humics will definitely help balance out the PH of your EWC tea. Guanos make the PH rise in compost teas so just adjust with PH down.


- sbz

 

[C21H30O2]

is it possible to burn plants, already in well amended/rich soil, with teas?

 

[CT Guy]

Add baby oatmeal if you want to get the mycellium. Just mix in and then cover for a week or so.

 

[CT Guy]

is it possible to burn plants, already in well amended/rich soil, with teas?

It is not possible to burn plants with properly made compost tea. That being said, if it's not properly made, depending on your inputs, the potential is there I suppose, but not likely. The idea behind compost tea is adding biology (with some soluble nutrients), however you have to let go of the NPK paradigm because you're not working with things with NPK in double digits, where burning can occur. Instead, the biology makes the nutrients already in the soil available to the plant through nutrient cycling.