A Basic Compost Tea Guide

[CT Guy]

If you Google a bit you will maybe find a chart that graphs Dissolved oxygen vs. Water Temperature, as heat increases water's ability to retain Oxygen dissolved is lowered, it's why alot of closet hydro growers fail.

70-80 deg is pretty optimal, everything brews nicely in my garage and it's chilly in there, Canada gets real winters lmfao.

Peace

Suby[/QUOTE]

Sorry, if I don't have time to go back and read the entire thread. However, in regards to temps., you want to brew at the ambient temps. at which you will be applying the tea. 70-80 F is optimal, and you will have to adjust your nutrients and brewing time as you all out of that range.

Dr. Ingham (not me Vonforne) has stated that you want to select for the organisms that will be successful at the temps. at which you're applying.

And Vonfore, again....what have I tried to sell you?

Bacteria is the easiest to grow, but why stop there. Protozoa and fungi are easy too, you just need to maintain O2 levels and not overfeed.

 

[vonforne]

Cool looks like we will all get along now.

And most around here call me V or V-man.

V

 

[Suby]

Yeah Tad alot of folks overdo sources of sugar that mainly feed bacteria, molasses more often than not.
I have gone from 1 TBS of BS molasses down to 1tsp and the teas brew up just as nice.
I have been playing with fish hydrolysate (neptunes Harvest) for a better fungal count as well.

S

 

[CT Guy]

V,

Glad to hear we're cool now.

Suby,

I remember reading in Dr. Ingham's field guide (and I'm doing this from memory) that .5-1% solutions of molasses will feed bacteria and 5% or higher will feed fungi. It's the 1-5% range that is dangerous in terms of going anaerobic with bacterial bloom. I fairly confident on the %'s but I'll have to go back and check.

~Tad

 

[CT Guy]

Yeah Tad alot of folks overdo sources of sugar that mainly feed bacteria, molasses more often than not.
I have gone from 1 TBS of BS molasses down to 1tsp and the teas brew up just as nice.
I have been playing with fish hydrolysate (neptunes Harvest) for a better fungal count as well.

S

What about a good humic acid to boost fungal growth or some alfalfa meal? Make sure the humic acid is a high % humic. There's alot of inferior humic products out there on the market right now.

~t

 

[Suby]

`Hey Tad,

Yeah I hear you on the humic acids, I find the granular kind are the best.
I have also been using fulvic acid as a foliar and have been tempted to try it in a tea, any idea on ratios?

As for what you mentioned about the use of molasses, I was under the impression that higher levels of molasses caused a more bacterially dominant tea?

Your saying about 5% of my mi for a more fungal count?

I have alfalfa meal, I will try that for sure, I have also heard soya sauce is a good fungal food but the Na levels are high with soya so I've yet to try it.

S

 

[CT Guy]

Hey, I found the post I was thinking of. It's pg. 190-192 of Dr. Inghams' Field Guide II.


Here's the pertinent info:

Humic Acid: "Humic acid extracted using harsh chemicals (strong acid and strong base) are not as good sources of food for fungi as humic acids extracted using hot water, or less harsh chemical means."

Worm Compost: "Most worm compost has lots of sugars in it, and so you don't want to add molasses if you are using worm compost. Kelp is a good addition, as is fish hydrolysate, casein (milk protein), oatmeal (finely ground), or other protein meals."

Molasses: "We found that lower concentrations of molasses just grew bacteria. Fungi were in fact HARMED. But at 5% molasses, that bacteria were reduced, and fungi grew like gang-busters. The trick is to maintain aerobic conditions, however. Probably, right at first, the shock of that much concentration of sugar, puts the bacteria to sleep. If you have good fungal biomass in the compost, the fungi probably start growing and the bacteria are out of luck. But, if you don't have adequate fungi in the compost, then the bacteria recover, and you better have SERIOUS aearation capacity to keep up with their oxygen use.....That much sugar! Phew! You're brewing beer......"

 

[CT Guy]

She also goes on to reiterate that this only works if your compost has high fungal biomass. You need to work on getting enough fungi growing in your compost first before trying such high concentrations of molasses, and you don't have any pathogens like e. coli in your compost. I also remember her saying this is not the best way to grow fungi.

We use molasses in our larger brewers 100 gal. and up, but not in our 5 gallon units. Bacteria is the easiest thing to grow in a brewer, I would focus on fungal foods like you've mentioned in previous posts, and work on getting your fungal counts up.

Here's a bit more from her on pg. 276:
"The data on which I based the 5% molasses test growing more fungi was with the 5 gal. KIS (Keep It Simple) brewer. The data have been submitted to journal, and I'll let you know when the paper is published. Maintaining aerobic conditions can be a problem. Both bacteria and fungi grow with higher molasses content, but fungi grow more than bacteria, relative to a 1% solution. E. coli did not occur in the 5% tea, they were present in the 1% tea. Same compost source use in both teas. Same machine. Same water, etc."

 

[Suby]

Interesting, it seems like I need to expand my library a bit.
I use a huge airstone and air pump when I bubble my teas.
You have mentioned agitation and after watching a show on Discovery about the small pox vaccine they showed agitation for culturing and it rang a bell with your description of a commercial brewer.

My fungal culture would probably come from forrest soil humus, it`s too cold here in the winter to keep a grow worthy source of compost out of my shed, it just stalls until spring at which point I can compost outside...

This really conflicts with that article I posted earlier with the reference to brewers yeast, I think he had 10% listed wich was IMO also too high.

I`m trying to nail down a good fungal and bacterial balanced tea brewed out of a 5 gallon bucket, it`s what the average grower needs.

What quality water do you consider best, well water or plain RO water or even filtered water?

I have been brewing with a lower ppm water source and I am curious as to what you think about ppm's, ph, and starting water quality.
We recommend leaving water sit to evap chlorine but some have read that contact with organic molecules eliminated clorine but again we are not scientists so we are guessing at best.

I appreciate you sharing your time and experience with us, I'm sure the ?'s will pile up fast around here lol.

Peace
Suby

 

[CT Guy]

My father wrote an article on water quality in compost tea. While not replicated, it demonstrates how different water sources have an impact on biology. Chlorine and chloramines can be a huge issue. You can view the article by going to simplici-tea dot com and clicking on the article section, then on the one are water quality. There's also a good one on humates and humic acid.

You're right that chlorine will evaporate or you can aerate you water to speed up the process. And coming in contace with organic matter will also eliminate it. We want the organic matter to not be sterilized for our teas though.

You might look into a small vermicomposting system like a can o worms or something that you could just use for kitchen scraps. Would give you much in compost, but you don't need much for a 5 gallon brewer.


As for your recipe, it's going to be dependent on the amount of aeration your brewer is able to produce. More air = more inputs/nutrients = better final tea.

 

[judas cohen]

Great info! My limited understanding of chlorine/chloramine treated water is that chlorine will evaporate from an open container of water, but that chloramine is resistant to evaporation/boiling and must be chemically removed.

When chloramined water is contacted by organic material, (such as compost), it undergoes a chemical reaction and becomes chlorine gas and evaporates. (It seems logical that some beneficial bacteria/fungi would be destroyed in this process.)

www.simplici-tea.com/water_quality_article.htm is link I found following above post by CT Guy.

BTW, I have ZERO connection with any business, CT Guy, or his friends/relatives. I never heard of this link or business until reading the above post.

 

[CT Guy]

Great info! My limited understanding of chlorine/chloramine treated water is that chlorine will evaporate from an open container of water, but that chloramine is resistant to evaporation/boiling and must be chemically removed.

When chloramined water is contacted by organic material, (such as compost), it undergoes a chemical reaction and becomes chlorine gas and evaporates. (It seems logical that some beneficial bacteria/fungi would be destroyed in this process.)

www.simplici-tea.com/water_quality_article.htm is link I found following above post by CT Guy.

BTW, I have ZERO connection with any business, CT Guy, or his friends/relatives. I never heard of this link or business until reading the above post.

You're correct about cholorine and chloramine. 2 popular options for removing chloramine are ascorbic acid and humic acid. With humic acid, you want to add enough that the water turns dark brown. Not terribly scientific or quantitative but should get the job done. It may effect your tea recipe too. With ascorbic acid they have tested rates so you know how much to apply. There is a calculator for ascorbic acid per gallon of chloramined water on the vita d chlor website (try googling it). You don't need very much.

 

[Smurf]

I’ve thrown together some bits and pieces from different pages/chapters of Dr Ingham’s tea manuel, some of it’s only the basic stuff, but I wanted to share it regardless,,,, sorry its taken me so long to post,,,,, my excuse - the silly season. :friends:

”Compost Tea Brewing Manual IV” by Dr. E. Ingham......

Early Methods Of Compost Tea Production

Bucket Method. Bucket methods date back to early Roman, Greek and Egyptian times (Brehaut, 1933, Cato’s De Agricultura, Varro’s Rerum Rusticarum Libri Tres). Many versions of “compost in a bucket” are still used today. Typically, the compost is either free in the water (which means that the non-soluble chunks have to be strained out of the tea if you want to put it through a delivery system) or suspended in a sack or bag, along with other non-soluble ingredients.
Fill the bucket half-full with water and stir vigorously for 10 – 20 minutes to degas any chlorine. Add the compost until the container is full, within an inch of the top for stirring to occur. Stir periodically with a stick, which mixes the solution as well as adding a small amount of air. Brew times need to be several weeks long, in order to get any of the organisms extracted from the compost. A few organisms will grow but biofilm formation on surfaces is not usually that great, because there isn’t much food for the organisms in mature compost and the bacteria wont grow rapidly enough to use up oxygen more rapidly than it can defuse into the water.

Brewing time. The brewing time must be long enough and/or have enough mixing to extract the desired soluble nutrients (food resources used by the microorganisms and micronutrients). If brewed too long, the microorganisms may go to sleep and not be active.

When to Add Materials. Soluble materials should be added to the water at the beginning of the brew cycle, unless otherwise noted in the recipe. If mechanical parts can clog, non-soluble materials should be placed in the compost container. Mycorrhizal spore suspensions should be added to the tea at the end of the brewing cycle, not at the beginning, because spores will begin to germinate in the tea after several hours. Mycorrhizal spores are sensitive to pressure just after they germinate and the pressure involved in mixing will kill them.

The following recipes are all based on 50 gallons of water, degassed if required to remove chlorine, and checked for extraction of the compost (brown color released into the brew before adding molasses or kelps).

The Basic, Starting-point, Bacterial Tea (based on 50 gal tea maker)

15 pounds (7 kg) bacterial compost
16 oz (500 ml) black strap molasses (dry molasses does not substitute)
8 oz (250 g) soluble cold-water kelp (additional proteins)
1 - 6 oz (30 - 200 ml) liquid, filtered plant extract material (for example, yucca extracts, nettle soup, dandelion wine, comfrey tea), proteins, fruit juices, fruit pulp, fish emulsion​

Add nothing with a preservative or antibiotic in it!

Concoctions that become anaerobic can be added to recipes like this one that call for plant extracts, because the anaerobic decomposition products will be consumed and converted into aerobic, plant beneficial compounds during the brewing process. Of course the brewing process must remain highly aerobic, so use a machine or method that provides a high rate of aeration and thorough mixing.

Dry molasses lacks a significant component of more complex sugars, so if using dry products, add a greater amount of dry molasses. There are fewer types of sugar in dry molasses, so use a second type of sugar such as corn syrup, maple syrup, or starch.

This yields a moderately bacterial tea. Addition of kelp adds micronutrients and some bacterial as well as fungal food.

Equal Ratio Fungi to Bacteria Tea (based on 50 gal tea)

15 pounds ( 7kg ) 1:1 fungal to bacterial biomass ratio compost
16 ounces ( 500mL ) humic acids
8 ounces ( 250 g ) soluble kelp
Fish hydrolysate, soybean meal, feather meal, oatmeal, or other high complex protein materials ( see labels on packages ), fruit pulp.​

Add nothing with a preservative or antibiotic in it!

Humic acids select for beneficial fungi, but any fungal food could be substituted here. Make certain to obtain a mixture containing many humic acids, rather than a limited set ( i.e. 3 to 5 humic acids). Rock dusts, rock powders, or rock flours can be beneficial as well, although these grainy materials can harm mechanical pumps. Fish hydrolysate should be tested for their ability to serve as fungal food resources before using extensively. Fish emulsions do not have the oils that help fungi grow, so an emulsion is more beneficial as a bacterial food than a fungi food.

Fungal Tea

20 pounds (9 kg ) fungal compost
1 pint humic acids ( 600 mL )
4 ounces ( 100 mL ) yucca high saponin content ).
8 ounces ( 250 g ) soluble kelp,
8 ounces ( 250 g ) Fish hydrolysate, addition proteins​

Add nothing with a preservative or antibiotic in it!

Make sure the compost is mature and has not been disturbed for a week or more.

Mycorrhizal Inoculum
The concentration of spores needed has not been well established for the different species. A range of 50 to 100 spores per gram soil is probably adequate to establish colonisation. Since mycorrhizal spores germinate and begin to grow within a few hours of addition to most teas, add the spores to the spray tank, holding tank, injection system, etc. For row crops, vegetables, grass, most berries, shrubs, and deciduous trees, vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (VAM) are the mycorrhizal fungi of choice, while conifers and some late-successional deciduous trees require ectomycorrhizal fungi.

Don’t forget to adjust these figures to suit the vol of tea you're making.

smurf

 

[CT Guy]

One thing we've found is that it's not a direct ratio based from ingredients to gallons of water.

For example, in our 5 gallon brewer we use:

1/2 c. foods
1 heaping cup compost

28 gallon brewer:
3 c. foods
1 gallon compost

100 gallon brewer:
6 c. foods
3 gallons compost


We've found with our lab tests that you need to scale back the food as you get to high quantities of water.

Great post on info. from Elaine though. Here's some more recipes from her:

Keep the ACT recipe simple.

100 gallon brewer
7 pounds of good compost (or 15 pounds of not-so-wonderful compost)
1 gal humic acid (Turf Pro for example)
1 pound kelp (please make sure it is organic approved)
MAYBE half gallon of non-sulfured blackstrap molasses (again organic please!)

No molasses once temperatures are above 85 F, increase the molasses if brewing in cold weather

If you brew in a 5 gal container, then,

5 gal brewer
1 pound compost
A half cup of humic acid
1 to 3 tablespoons of kelp
a teaspoon of non-sulfured, blackstrap molasses

check biology when you are done. If fungi are too low, up the humic acid, or lower the molasses

Bacteria and fungi compete for food. High bacteria mean low fungi, unless you get the right balance of foods for them to both do well.

Hope this helps!

Elaine

 

[Smurf]

There are some answers here for most of us. It’s often the stuff I think about but usually too bent (I get side tracked) by the time I get on my pc. A few bits are already in the OFC,,,, hope this helps some of you ,,, cause it cleared up a few things for me.

------------------------------------------------------

Extraction and mixing. Mixing needs to be not too much and not too little. Too rapid mixing will physically destroy beneficial microorganisms in the tea. Think about yourself impacting the wall of the container going 320km (200 miles) an hour. If the speed of the impact would kill you, it will kill the organisms in the tea.
Too slow mixing means a lack of organisms pulled from the compost, allows biofilm development to be rapid, and the surface of everything will develop anaerobe slime with resulting phytotoxic materials present in the liquid.

There are two things to understand about mixing.

1. Enough energy has to be imparted to the compost to physically remove the bacteria and fungi from the surface of the compost. Bacteria can glue themselves onto the surface of any particle in compost, and it takes significant energy to remove bacteria from these surfaces. Fungi wrap around particles and the hyphae have to be broken enough to let the strand be pulled out of the compost, but not broken so much that they are shredded into little pieces. Thus, most extraction methods that involve blades, whirling mixing bars, or blender actions can break up the hyphae, or the bacterial cells, too much and result in poor fungal and/or bacterial biomass in the tea.

2. Uniformity of the end product, the tea, is necessary. Good mixing – enough but not too much – produces both effects. Most of the commercially available machines were developed around the principles of enough aeration and enough mixing to get the organisms into the tea, but not shred them to death.​

If brown color comes from the compost, then fungal extraction is probably good. Add fungal food resources and surfaces that will allow fungi to grow in liquids. So BEFORE placing any dark colored materials in to the tea water at the beginning of the cycle, add the compost into the tea-maker, what ever container you have, and make certain the compost tea maker is mixing the water well enough to pull the humic acids (brown color) from the compost. No brown color out of the compost in the holder should instantly indicate that adequate extraction is not occurring. Additional mixing of the compost in the container will be necessary.

Foam. The presence of foam on the surface of tea is considered a positive sign, but just means there are free proteins, amino acids or carbohydrates present. This can occur from the result of adding fish hydrolysate, certain organic acids or carbohydrates. If worm compost was used, excessive foam suggests a few earth worms were in the compost and their dead bodies were supplying this source of protein/carbohydrate. Excess protein or amino acids should not occur if bacteria are growing well, although dead worms may continue to release proteinaceous materials throughout the brewing cycle. Foam can be suppressed by using organic surfactants, such as yucca or vegetables oil (not olive or canola oil!) Don’t use commercial de-foamers – every single one we have tested kills the organisms in the tea.

Maintaining Compost Activity. If a large amount of compost is bought to make tea during the rest of the year, be aware that the organisms in the compost will go to sleep, become dormant, and don’t extract from the compost easily the older the compost gets. Maintain compost organism activity by adding compost tea to the compost. Even then, we have seen a compost get so “mature” that you can’t wake them up to grow at all in a 24 hour brewing cycle.

Compost for foliar compost tea applications should to be SLIGHTLY IMMATURE! That means, a little bit of temperature is a good thing – about 5 deg - 10 deg above ambient is the desired range.

Mesh size of the tea bag or final filtration material. The opening size in the compost container or any filters through which the tea must pass, can affect the kind of particulate material and organisms that will be present in the tea. Mesh is a measurement of the number of holes in an inch surface area, the smaller the mesh number, the larger the size of the holes. For example, an 80-mesh screen has holes with diameters of 170 micrometers (a micrometer is a millionth of a meter). A 20-mesh screen has holes with diameters of 800 micrometers.

The finer the size of the openings, the more likely only soluble components will be extracted. If the openings are too large, particulate matter in the tea may clog sprayers and irrigation systems.

A variety of materials can be used, as long as they are inert to microbial decomposition. For example, polycarbonates, plastic, nylon, silk and fine-weave cotton work well, but window screening, wire mesh, and burlap may also be used. Fresh burlap should be used with caution, though, as it is soaked in preservative materials which can be extracted into the tea and kill the organisms.

Consider the size of the organisms desired in the tea. The largest beneficial nematodes are around 150 – 200 micrometers (10-6 meters) in length, but only 30 to 50 micrometers in diameter. Thus, a mesh that allows organisms of this size to pass, but restricts passage of larger materials, is desirable. The openings should not be smaller than this size since then a number of the beneficial organisms would not be present in the final product.

Microbes in the tea. A wide diversity of bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes need to be present in the compost and be extracted into the tea. The greater the diversity of beneficial microorganisms, the greater the likelihood the disease-causing organisms will be out-competed on leaves, stems, roots and in the soil.

Nutrient retention will be higher, because all the food resources will be used and the nutrients retained and not leached from the leaf, stem, root or soil. Plant-available nutrients will be cycled at a more beneficial-to-the-plant rate, and soil aggregation will improve, along with water-holding capacity, breakdown of toxic materials and decomposition rates.

When the diversity of microorganisms in the compost is low, the health of plant surfaces will be limited, and one particular set of metabolic products can accumulate to the detriment of plants and other organisms. Thus good compost is critical to the production of good tea (see Wagner, 2000, Rodale books on composting, the Soil Foodweb website, www.soilfoodweb.com for information about the set of organisms in good compost and how to tell if they are present).

....... by Dr. E. Ingham ......

 

[CT Guy]

Good info. Smurf. Just wanted to add that the best form of extraction is to use air directly into the mesh bag that's holding the compost. You can't over aerate, and the protozoa, fungi, and bacteria can handle the agitation. Where they die is when you have blades in your tea or other methods of agitation.

 

[vonforne]

Good info. Smurf. Just wanted to add that the best form of extraction is to use air directly into the mesh bag that's holding the compost. You can't over aerate, and the protozoa, fungi, and bacteria can handle the agitation. Where they die is when you have blades in your tea or other methods of agitation.

I have used a power jet for fish tanks would this be considered damaging?

V

 

[CT Guy]

Wow, this thread really took off all of a sudden! Just wanted to add something really quick as I dont' have time right now for a long response.

A good solution to foaming is to at 1 T. of vegetable oil to your tea. It won't effect biology but should keep the foaming in check so you don't have a huge mess to clean up after brewing. (We have tested the biology on this so I know it doesn't damage the microbes).

~Tad

 

[Guest]

CT -

I added a TBS of olive oil to my tea along with two overripe bannas, some ginger, basil, and cardiman(sp?) pods just for fun two weeks back and could not figure out why it did not foam! Now I guess I know. Thanks.

 

[Guest]

Great tread