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Yankmychain
wow those last 4 pics are beautiful
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3 weeks in with Aptus shits blowing up around here..
- Thread starter jackmayoffer
- Start date
michaelswines
Member
Jack-I’ve been growing for sometime now, and had the privilege to see a great deal of large light shows, but your yields and complete uniformity is unparallel. Attention to detail is paramount in our industry and you are right at the apex. The closest we can get to your yields and flower development is via sea of green technique at 25 plants per 1k. The weaving of laterals between the trellis must be arduous work. Hats off to you and your team.
Until you live the dream and realise the hours he puts in.. Harvest must suck with those coco beds.
Killer rooms filled with killer plants dripping with resin 
KeepItPushin
Member
Jack,
I don't remember it being discussed earlier in the thread (yes, I read the whole thing at one point), but what light timers are you using? I've been using the gray boxes with the yellow dials (3x lights per timer) for 51x lights, but have had issues with the damn things many times..
If there are any spikes or power surges, one timer can offset by several hours causing serious harm to the girls. I have 17 of these timers and the weak link is that if any ONE of these fails, the whole room fails. It's happened several times (fortunately never total catastrophe) but I'm curious to hear from a guy like you what is the best solution for timers to be used with 50+ light rooms. I want something consolidated and digital so that there's only one place something could go wrong, and yes I'm familiar with most of my options, but I just want to get your advice. What do you use, and how do you avoid mess ups?
I would guess that you're going to tell me to just check them every day, but since we often go in only every other day (to water during flower unless there's other work to be done) there is one 24hr period where things can go wrong. Any thoughts or input? Thanks!
I don't remember it being discussed earlier in the thread (yes, I read the whole thing at one point), but what light timers are you using? I've been using the gray boxes with the yellow dials (3x lights per timer) for 51x lights, but have had issues with the damn things many times..
If there are any spikes or power surges, one timer can offset by several hours causing serious harm to the girls. I have 17 of these timers and the weak link is that if any ONE of these fails, the whole room fails. It's happened several times (fortunately never total catastrophe) but I'm curious to hear from a guy like you what is the best solution for timers to be used with 50+ light rooms. I want something consolidated and digital so that there's only one place something could go wrong, and yes I'm familiar with most of my options, but I just want to get your advice. What do you use, and how do you avoid mess ups?
I would guess that you're going to tell me to just check them every day, but since we often go in only every other day (to water during flower unless there's other work to be done) there is one 24hr period where things can go wrong. Any thoughts or input? Thanks!
thanks for the reply. I am interested to see what your impressions of H&G are.* I will continue to try and find somebody reputable with a comparison.
i am with u 99% on Cap's supremacy over Great White and the 1% is just my natural skepticism of everything.* I am going to wait to order my kilos of Cap's until my last great big jar of GW is done because otherwise I know I will just not use it... and then its REALLY a waste of money.* I do have a box of stuff I have discontinued use of or that was given to me as a sample etc that I donate to new and broke growers I know... that's a pricey one to toss in though...
What I am crunching now is how to manage my automated flood and drain system to accommodate both the Aptus (3 day life in rez) and the Cappies which will make my rez froth bring in lots of biofilm etc...
Don't know if I said, but i am in pure atami coco in mesh bottom pots.* right now i am flooding over the little root ports on the bottom sides of those and letting the system drain (4 tables on 3/4" drain line makes it nice and slow- tables stay wet for a total of about 40 minutes)
So NOW I just mix a new 400 gallon rez with H&G and their additive program without Amino Treatment which is half the cost of the run if you follow their directions.* It didn't exist when I started my run.* That plus the GW and CalMag+ and BTi.* Anyhow... I mix that up once a week.* Usually, I have to top off after 3 days.* On the first top-off, i add what's needed and also top off the base nutes.* On any subsequent top-offs, i just add well water and pH adjust.* After the 7th day of 1 feed per day, I clean the reservoir with H202 and refill with the next week's nutes.
From there, the system is completely automated and the parts that are not, will be soon.* It floods and drains on a timer and recirculates 4 times a day for 15 minutes (i might up that time) and after the last feed on day 7, it dumps the remnants.* I have a master kill for the pump on a float switch so it doesn't run dry.* By the time I get to the system to clean, its just sitting there ready to be cleaned.* I can monitor everything by sound while I do more important things.
I have figured out that my greatest leaps in yield and quality come from canopy management and efficient cloning and vegging operations so any time that can be saved by the watering droid is more time for me in the canopy, fluffing out new tops and looking for problems to get ahead of and having the next run ready...
basically all things other than watering/feeding.
SO... to get to the point.* I would like to come up with a solution whereby I can add these things in succession without additional dump/fill cycles in my weekly plan.
What do you think of adding Cap's tea to a rez that is filled with 5-day-old nute solution watered down by a third with fresh well water?*
My thought is this:*
Day 1:* FResh Base + Cal Mag
Day 2: No change
Day 3: Add 50% H2O+Base, Add Aptus
Day 4: Add required H2O
Day 5: Add Required H2O (start Capulator 24h brew)
Day 6: Add H2O + Capulators Tea @ 2cups/5gallons
Day 7: Add H20 + leftover, overbrewed capulators tea
Another option is splitting my reservoirs which is right now 2x200 tanks.* The automation of which is fully possible, but I am unsure that I will be able to find the kind of low pressure automated ball valves that I need to work with my sprinkler timer.* Taco brand EBV's are perfect for the job but standard sprinkler timers only work with diaphragm style valves that close on their own and only need a signal to open.* Might need a boiler controller on a separate timer to accomplish a double rez system that I will only have to clean once a week.
I blather on, jack, because you are one of the few growers (showing it) out here who is really an inspiration.* The shots I have seen of your systems has made it plainly obvious that you, like me are a systems guy, and grows like this are all about systems, tight organization and a mind for problem solving.* I appreciate your feedback.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38671&pictureid=914997
I have found timers, in general, are the weakest link in the grow room. Using 17 timers compounds that weakness. 17 timers makes it AT LEAST 17x more likely, for the most likely to fail part of your room to fail. Bad juju.
i have learned in my short tenure as an indoor grower to never have any kind of serious electrical load on any timer. Relays only. This is where commercial lighting controllers come in handy as they have reliable relays built in. Hence, miniscule 110v load on timers.
A new timer of the most reliable variety each run at a cost of under 20$ per run increases the odds, unless failures for a given timer are usually experienced right out of the box... Technically, you can use a single 110v timer for 48 lights with 2 24 light controllers.
guess u didn't ask for my opinion, though.
headees
Active member
You have to start with only fresh water when adding the fasilitor or it will cause problems. Ive been having problems with aptus clogging my drip system after 2 days, but I have been using silica as a PH up, which I think has been reacting with the aptus causing excess bio growth, either that or Im introducing too much air with multiple air stones. Also I think the silica has caused major PH instability, my PH would rise 2+ points in 24 hours, at least I hope thats the problem, because that is ridiculous if aptus is that unstable. So I got some regular PH up(aptus will drop your PH way down) and mixed a batch today, hopefully it will fix those issues.
Really important not to use ANYTHING other than your base nutes with the Aptus line or you will see issues.
Also I wouldnt run caps tea through a drip system, and definitely dont mix with aptus and let it sit in your res for a length of time. I water it in by hand.
I am interested to know how it goes with the silica-free batch.
This info bodes ill for my hopes of not having to split my res or mix more than once a week.
My entire watering system from end to end is 3/4" tubing, except the tank manifold which is 1". I am scared of dripper tubing, individual emitters, etc... I just flood my tables, plants are in 6 and 8" mesh bottom pots. Magically, very little coco gets into my recirculating system... its filtered out at the return pump with a paint strainer.
hmmm... aptus says "for best results use within 3 days." not "don't use after 3 days..."
seems i could just mix in with base at the beginning of the week and just won't be getting best results from it by the end of the week.
The question now is whether Cap's teas ALSO have to be mixed into a fresh water res. Right now I am just dumping Great White into the res with the rest of it. I don't know if that program is effective because I don;t have a scope (soon come.)
seems i could just mix in with base at the beginning of the week and just won't be getting best results from it by the end of the week.
The question now is whether Cap's teas ALSO have to be mixed into a fresh water res. Right now I am just dumping Great White into the res with the rest of it. I don't know if that program is effective because I don;t have a scope (soon come.)
headees
Active member
I just got off the phone with the aptus tech support and they seem to think the air stones are causing the PH instability and excess bio film, which totally does make sense. This stuff bubbles crazy as soon as the fasilitor is mixed in the res, more so than when Im brewing tea lol. Thing is one of the other Aptus guys I talked to told me the more air the better, go figure. I guess a recirculating pump is all you need.
If you are just flooding your tables with 3/4", then yea I would think you could run caps tea through no problem. Its the drip line and emmiters you need to worry about. As far as overlapping Aptus on top of base, on top of caps tea, I wouldnt do it. I think a split rez is the only way, along with mixing a couple fresh batches a week. You might be able to get away with it, but you could just cause a bunch of issues. Talk to the Aptus guys and see what they say...
It is a bunch more work running this feed schedule. Much easier just to mix a giant dead, or semi-dead rez once a week and just set it and forget it. If I dont see a huge difference with the aptus, Im going back to doing just that. So far, aside from the user error issues, at week three things are looking good, but not even close to what Jacks results are.
If you are just flooding your tables with 3/4", then yea I would think you could run caps tea through no problem. Its the drip line and emmiters you need to worry about. As far as overlapping Aptus on top of base, on top of caps tea, I wouldnt do it. I think a split rez is the only way, along with mixing a couple fresh batches a week. You might be able to get away with it, but you could just cause a bunch of issues. Talk to the Aptus guys and see what they say...
It is a bunch more work running this feed schedule. Much easier just to mix a giant dead, or semi-dead rez once a week and just set it and forget it. If I dont see a huge difference with the aptus, Im going back to doing just that. So far, aside from the user error issues, at week three things are looking good, but not even close to what Jacks results are.
KeepItPushin
Member
Hey why not just apply the caps by hand (or wand via pump) an hour or two after last watering, in amounts just enough to saturate each mesh pot. Then let your plants sit overnight while the bacteria takes hold in the coco. By next day's 1st watering they will have sunk their teeth in, so to speak, and should stay put during the following flood cycles. Everything I know about bacteria tells me this should work. Do this once or twice a week, and I'm sure you'll be getting results similar to or better than the flooding for two days idea.
Additionally, you could foliar the caps and still get some benefit.
Additionally, you could foliar the caps and still get some benefit.
KeepItPushin
Member
Oh yea and just call Aptus to ask them about all of this. They will be more than happy to explain.
KeepItPushin
Member
Jack have you ever checked out your teas under the scope to get a bacteria count and/or had a colony diversity report? It would be nice to have as a comparison for other growers. I work in a lab and bring samples to work all the time, it's definately beneficial to be able to track a tea's life.
^Good idea. Its occurred to me. We top feed with a wand every 10-14 days just to make sure we have ample BTi in the top two inches.
The problem here is volume. I need a significant volume of water to deliver the teas in OR in the case of feeding full strength teas, a BIG brewer. Bringing in a 3rd tank/big brewer seems like the way to go.
The problem here is volume. I need a significant volume of water to deliver the teas in OR in the case of feeding full strength teas, a BIG brewer. Bringing in a 3rd tank/big brewer seems like the way to go.
I read on the last page I think headees? said to only use base with Aptus and that's just wrong. I've been using an array of products along side my Aptus+H&G base....Amino Treatment, Roots Excell, B vitamins, Hygrozyme, Liquid Karma, Bloombastic, drip clean, +PHup&down...without any problems thus far (day 33) The Top shooter will start to be incorporated at the start of the next week....I'm around 1300+ PPM in a really hot batch, and I'm running a strain (GSC) that's sensitive and not a heavy feeder and I'm seeing no problems.
This is the smallest of 48 GSC at around day 25, also I have to say the aptus DID NOT control stretch and yes I doubled the dosage for 6 straight days feeding daily, probably wasted $100 just being the guinea pig on that one. To be honest I don't know how much is placebo and how much is my dialed room...I'm leaning towards the room.
Also Nomaad you wouldn't technically have a run without silica when using aptus and base solely...there's Silicic Acid in the Fasilitor (Si) which is a nutrient transporter. But the more important micros are Boron and Molybdenum.
This is the smallest of 48 GSC at around day 25, also I have to say the aptus DID NOT control stretch and yes I doubled the dosage for 6 straight days feeding daily, probably wasted $100 just being the guinea pig on that one. To be honest I don't know how much is placebo and how much is my dialed room...I'm leaning towards the room.
Also Nomaad you wouldn't technically have a run without silica when using aptus and base solely...there's Silicic Acid in the Fasilitor (Si) which is a nutrient transporter. But the more important micros are Boron and Molybdenum.
