3 plus 3=?

[Strains]

It was my understanding that most triploids and tetraploids stayed bifoliar, wheres as theres a trigger for the trifoliar trait, the trigger for polyploidity is a poison wich restricts the cells from multiplying normally, so that when the cell is about to divide these poisons restrict them so the division fails but the chromosomes doubled up in the attempt to divide and thereby becomming tri/tetra ploid! It was also my understanding that usually these poisened plants exhibit multi ploidity, some places on the plant they find normal diploid cells and other places they are triploid and tetraploid! (some plants do however become triploid/tetraploid naturally on theyre own)

I remember seeing those, they look awesome, but i think that manicuring that top bud would be a pita how are yours comming along GMT?

 

[GMT]

I'll add what I can remember to that, though my stoner memory isn't as good as it could be, and I'm talking about stuff that I read and am repeating not speaking from personal knowledge here. As I understand it, one thing that the poison does (I use poison as I can't be bothered to look up the speeling each time I write it lol) is to inhibit the splitting of the 2 strands of dna as the haploid cells form. This means that rather than one parent donating 1 strand of dna, both strands are passed onto the offsring, which bond with either one or 2 strands of dna from the other parent, creating the triploids etc.
This happens in humans too, around 5% of the time from each parent (normally without the use of poisons), which results in 10% of pregnancies failling as in humans triploids are not viable organisms. 0.25% of the time it hapens with both parents, resulting in the same fate.

Mine are doing fine, just kinda sitting there, which is all they ever do lol. The wait is the worse part of growing. I have a pheno that I didn't clone as it didn't keep its trifoliar pheno throughout, but I'm liking the way its putting out its buds, the worse part is there was another plant of the same pheno that did keep its triness and I killed it off due to insufficient room for it and not expecting it to be a keeper, which now seeing the other one may have been a bad move. Far less leafy, though I dont mind leafy so long as the buds are underneath. I almost enjoy the undressing experience at the end of the grow and revealing the buds underneath. Its like unwrapping xmas pressies.

 

[damakkus]

Heya GMT,

Just stopped in to say Hi my friend. See how things are.

those are some wild pics from Jonas. Anyone know how somethin like that would smoke?

GROW UNITED

 

[Strains]

I'll add what I can remember to that, though my stoner memory isn't as good as it could be, and I'm talking about stuff that I read and am repeating not speaking from personal knowledge here. As I understand it, one thing that the poison does (I use poison as I can't be bothered to look up the speeling each time I write it lol) is to inhibit the splitting of the 2 strands of dna as the haploid cells form. This means that rather than one parent donating 1 strand of dna, both strands are passed onto the offsring, which bond with either one or 2 strands of dna from the other parent, creating the triploids etc.
This happens in humans too, around 5% of the time from each parent (normally without the use of poisons), which results in 10% of pregnancies failling as in humans triploids are not viable organisms. 0.25% of the time it hapens with both parents, resulting in the same fate.

: good stuff

Well as i understood it (im also just speaking from what ive read) they apply the colchine (spelling? the poison) to plants thats allready live and well and after the poisening they start to form triploid/tetraploid cells. im not sure need to read more.

I love the waiting, i just sit there watching my plants grow, sometimes i even meditate with them but yes it can be a drag when youre getting close to harvest! cant wait to get going again and start unwrapping my presents The one you killed off, dont you have more seeds from that cross? if so chances are youll find another keep your hopes up, im going to try and find the info where i read the cells not being able to divide!

- Strains


*edit* allready found some of the info ive been reading :
Polyploid plants not only have larger cells but the plants themselves are often larger. This has led to the deliberate creation of polyploid varieties of such plants as watermelons, marigolds, and snapdragons

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Polyploidy.html


This in particurlar could be interesting for you GMT <-:-> However, the tetraploid plants can breed with each other. So in one generation, a new species has been formed... In 1928, the Russian plant geneticist Karpechenko produced a new species by crossing a cabbage with a radish. Although belonging to different genera (Brassica and Raphanus respectively), both parents have a diploid number of 18. Fusion of their respective gametes (n=9) produced mostly infertile hybrids.

However, a few fertile plants were formed, probably by the spontaneous doubling of the chromosome number in somatic cells that went on to form gametes (by meiosis). Thus these contained 18 chromosomes — a complete set of both cabbage (n=9) and radish (n=9) chromosomes.

Fusion of these gametes produced vigorous, fully-fertile, polyploid plants with 36 chromosomes. (Unfortunately, they had the roots of the cabbage and the leaves of the radish.)

These plants could breed with each other but not with either the cabbage or radish ancestors, so Karpechenko had produced a new species.

 

[Strains]

Plant polyploidy: gene expression and genetic redundancy

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v91/n2/full/6800317a.html

 

[GMT]

Hi Damak, its all rolling along nicely here thanks mate. What have you got going at the mo? I would assume that Jonas' NYCD would smoke pretty much like anyother NYCD and that the pheno is merely a grow thing, though I'll be able to tell ya more after I smoke mine

Hi Strains, I'm not sure how cells are formed in the body of a plant to be honest. I know as a baby grows, its splitting it cells and so one becomes 2 etc, but not sure if plants do the same thing or if entirely new cells are created somewhere. If they are done in that way, then it would make sense for a poison that interferes with that natural process to prevent a cell from replicating even after the cell info being doubled up ready to form a new cell. Then as that cell eventually does double up, the double will contain the already doubled info.

 

[Strains]

that was about how i understood it, but remember that im also just repeating what ive read somewhere! still i find it interesting that they state on that site : However, the tetraploid plants can breed with each other. So in one generation, a new species has been formed

- Strains

 

[Strains]

CELL DIVISION: MEIOSIS AND SEXUAL REPRODUCTION

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookmeiosis.html

this is some info on cell division in plants, i dont fully comphrend it, so im just gonna cut and paste this bit :
Two successive nuclear divisions occur, Meiosis I (Reduction) and Meiosis II (Division). Meiosis produces 4 haploid cells. Mitosis produces 2 diploid cells. The old name for meiosis was reduction/ division. Meiosis I reduces the ploidy level from 2n to n (reduction) while Meiosis II divides the remaining set of chromosomes in a mitosis-like process (division). Most of the differences between the processes occur during Meiosis I.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgV...6880441F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh7c8YbYGqo&feature=related

 

[GMT]

I can now clearly see why the early poisoning experiments were carried out on cannabis plants; in an attempt to create larger plants. However since they resulted in largely dead seeds (known), and those that were still viable clearly didn't pass the multiploidy on to their offspring, or were infertile, (assumptions that may be entirely false, though in the absense of their pressence today, it seems a reasonable assumption to make), I guess the attempt failed. What I'm interested in now is whether on a successfull attempt, it only takes one male gene to make an entire plant male, or since in diploid species, 50% of the gametes are male, it would take 50% of the gametes to contain a male gene in a polyploid to make a male.

 

[GMT]

 

[Strainbrain]

GMT, here's an interesting post from DocLeaf, couple of pics and an explanation:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2420622&postcount=759

-s

 

[GMT]

Lol, they're becoming more and more popular as time goes by. There was a time they were considered freaks and disposable.

 

[BENJI]

Looking good GMT bro...

 

[GMT]

thanks Benji

 

[BENJI]

No probs GMT credit where credit's due what strain is that in the bud pics..?

 

[GMT]

all 4 visable plants are bruised nuts.
the 2 just entering flower are the latest generation, the other 2 are from a backcross to a previous generation.
All bud pics are from the ex quad. (the backcross). As that's the furthest along. As the others start to put on the bud I'll take pics of them too.

 

[shaunmulok]

looking good there GMT nice and healthy

 

[jonas@diesel]

just a quick look at the bud formation at the growth tip of the quad, very odd.

looks like u got a polyploid plant
beautiful phenos
i had one in my last grow...

 

[GMT]

Hey Jonas, take a look back a bit, and you'll see a few of your photos here. We discussed your plant when I found mine. Tell me though, what makes you think its a polyploid?

 

[shaunmulok]

Hi GMT thanks for the Rep,smokin some of my tri at the moment, not bad has a fruity sour smell, it was a pleasure to trim& i must say i liked the way the buds grew around the stem in 3 directions made the top cola nice and fat.

I'm poppin my Karma test beans at the moment so looking forward to this grow

I have to pull down my flower room as i have a rental inspection in 10 days then it will be back up with an extra 400 watts, i wish i could afford the 2 600w digi's for $450 they would be better but they will come in time

That all for now speak again soon stay safe and well