3 plus 3=?

[Strains]

Sounds like a plan

But yes the capitalism is spilling out everywhere, even here.
I have a dream of living way out in the bushes with some acres to go with it,
and then just go into exile! i hate politics, they are a mere "trick of the trade" and the trade being - fooling you out of your money! but yeah lets keep that talk elsewhere as i would hate for this thread to be closed!

- Strains

 

[Strains]

oh yeah and BTW i read you saying somewhere that the genetics where you found the first tri,
was in some of DJ blue genetics, since i have no clue who he is, could you point me towards
lines where i could find some! Then i would love to start a seperate line of tris wich then later could be crossed with yours for a decrease in the deprimental effects inbreeding can have!

Merely throwing ideas out there

- Strains

 

[GMT]

Well, big topic, ok, the first anything tri (that I had) was one of the tops of an orangeberry plant I grew, Blueberry x orange bud. I cut the top off and grew it on its own, pollinating it. And then the search began. The majority of stuff that I have seen that has had a tri trait has had some blueberry in it, though not everything. The odds of you buying a pack of something with the tri trait in it, makes it very unlikely. I like the way you think, and if it was that easy, then I'd be very happy to work with you on that aim. It would certainly be good for me and my plants. But if it was as simple as buying a pack of something tri, then I wouldn't need to be doing all this. Perhaps when I'm finished, it will be that easy, but in the mean time, I'm afraid you'l have to wait for me to finish. On the other hand, there is a guy called Ricky (I think thats his name) who sells tri seeds, though really they arent tri seeds (just seeds from a single tri plant) and he used to put a price tag of $10,000 on them for a pack of 10. Whiskey (see above^) has some tri's he's sprouted, I can't remember what strain he said they came from. The standard odds are 1 in 10,000 seeds. In the blue lines they are higher. I'm afraid you'll have a wait till my tri lines are out. Once they are, if you still have that goal, then I'll try to get a pack or 2 to you (through seedbay) and we'll see how well you do with them.

 

[Strains]

Good enough for me, in the mean time, if i should ever stumble over a tri (i have had one back in the younger days) then i will try and do something similar to you and then trade that line to yours so it could have a more diverse geenpool!
btw youre dead on, on the polyploidity thing, or at least to the extend that i understand it, triploid and quadroploidity in plants dont show as extra leafs and such but in size, meaning a quadroploid plant should be roughly 3 times as big as a normal plant(edit* as in the single cells of the plant is enlarged *edit)! take the seedless watermelon, its a polyploid plant ( ancestors are at least ) it was no bigger than a handball i original state, biggest problem with polyploid plants is they are usually sterile!

- Strain

 

[GMT]

Oh that's very interesting, I hadn't considered the effects of "additional ploidy" on each cell within the plant. I guess each cell would have no way to measure the relative size of it's host plant, and so the instruction sets would all act as if it was a normal diploid. Fascinating. Great point, thanks for bringing that up.

 

[Strains]

np

- Strains

*EDIT*
-->
Just noticed my failure in spelling.. not qadroploid but TETRA ploid! sry my mistake

somthing interesting found on bookrags.com =

Polyploidy in Plants

Polyploidy can be induced with chemicals such as colchicine, as O. J. Eigsti first demonstrated in 1935. His work extended that done by F. A. Blakeslee, and the technique he used has been adopted commercially to produce products such as seedless watermelon. The seeds are missing because the embryos abort from aneuploidy before they can form seeds.

In nature there are different kinds of polyploids. An autopolyploid plant has all its chromosomes derived from one haploid set. An allopolyploid plant has its sets derived from two different plant species. In general, allopolyploidsare fertile and survive, whereas autopolyploids are sterile and must be propagated as clones (identical twins), by cuttings.

The difference between autopolyploidy and allopolyploidy can be appreciated by an example. No one knows the reasons for mitotic failure leading to spontaneous tetraploids, but artificial ones are induced by mitotic poisons, like colchicine, that prevent spindle fiber formation. If one species has chromosomes ABCD in a (haploid) gamete, and a related species has chromosomes FGHI, the resulting (diploid) zygote will have a chromosome set consisting of ABCDFGHI. If that collection of chromosomes undergoes a spontaneous doubling, the resulting plant is AABBCCDDFFGGHHII. Such a plant will produce ABCDFGHI gametes and by self-pollination, which is common in many flowering plants, the new allopolyploid will be fertile.

In the case of autopolyploids, by contrast, the chromosomes ABCD become triplicated (3N: AAABBBCCCDDD) or quadruplicated (4N: AAAABBBBCCCCDDDD). This may lead to nondisjunctional separations during meiosis, wherein the chromosomes will divide improperly or incompletely. In the 3N plant many of the gametes may be AABCDD or ABCCD or other variations of aneuploidy that will disturb embryonic development.

Among familiar plant polyploids are strains of wheat with chromosome numbers of 14 (2N), 28 (4N), and 42(6N), all of which are based on an ancestral form whose haploid number was 7. Chrysanthemums have a series of varieties with a range of chromosome numbers: 18, 36, 54, 72, and 90. The ancestral haploid is assumed to be 9. About half of all flowering plant species are believed to have polyploid varieties. If an accidental doubling of the zygote chromosome number is the major mechanism involved, most of these forms are tetraploid.


Genetic Analysis

The transmission of genetic traits in polyploids is more difficult to calculate than in diploids because a gene for a recessive trait in a triploid, for example, would have to appear in the same location on all three of its homologous chromosomes in order for it to be phenotypically apparent. Such calculations, when done for diploids, rely upon binomial equations and generate a familiar ratio of 9AB:3aB:3Ab:1ab, whereas the calculations for polyploid plants require the use of trinomial equations for triploids and quadrinomial equations for tetraploids, instead of the traditional binomial (A + B)2 that generates the familiar 9AB:3aB:3Ab:1ab ratio for diploids. Thus for a trinomial (three gene) the equation will be the expansion of (A + B + C)3.

The use of polyploids in laboratory research has allowed research into the function of specific genes. For instance, triploid female fruit flies crossed to diploid males were used to create a diploid offspring with a chromosome of a sibling species. In this experiment, the tiny fourth chromosome of Drosophila simulans was inserted into an otherwise diploid D. melanogaster offspring. This permitted analysis of the genes shared in common (most of them) as well as gene differences that led to visible malformations in the hybrid fly. Triploid flies have also been crossed to irradiated diploid males to prove that X rays induce breaks in chromosomes, causing apoptosis andembryonic abortion.

<--> Theres more on the site, i just took this part becuz this was something i havent read before

http://www.bookrags.com/research/polyploidy-gen-03/

 

[GMT]

wow, thanks again strains, I'm going to study that link in detail tomorrow. I don't have anything intelligent to add at this point, I need to study it first, and then may still not have lol. How well do you know your genetics? Just to be interested enough to look for that makes me think that we're gonna have a few interesting chats over the course of this thread.

 

[Strains]

Well im not capable of understanding it if you go into the (3N: AAABBBCCCDDD) so steer clear of them and ill be able to understand most, Im like omnivores is with food, just with knowledge. it doesnt take much to interest me on a subject and then i try to educate myself as much as possible on the matter, ive read many pages concerning the ploidity of plants but i fell like im only two steps along a path that stretches for miles, if you get my drift!
hehe when i first started reading this thread, the day before yesterday i think, i was immediatly drawn by that talk of ploidity and was well in on my way to respond when i noticed, 2007 on that post

Im sure we are gonna have some interesting chats, im actually quite confident at that, seeing that you can actually cope with me asking all these Q's about everything

- Strains

 

[GMT]

yeah I know what you mean, I have a hell of a long journey ahead of me on my study of such things too. It's gonna be a more enjoyable journey though the more peeps I meet on the road with the same destination in mind.
This thread has been around a while I know, I keep taking a break and doing a bi grow every now and then, then coming back and doing a pure tri grow with a view to making seeds. I didn't find any usable males this round though, so I get to post tri buds for a change, which is unusual for me as I normally seed them.
I love Qs, I love "nice pics" comments, I love, any comment anyone leaves, anyone running a thread loves a comment, (and now I feel guilty for all those threads I should be leaving comments on and havent for so long). But Qs in particular give me something to focus on.

 

[Strains]

Hehe thats understandable, also the breaks with bifoliars, otherwise you would prbly go insane Well as a change it must be nice to see what they are actually capable of when grown sensimilla, any idea if that phenomona with that top, looking like its the top of like 10 plants in one, is also something that follows in your line, or is it a first?
uhm time to light up my fattie its been laying there for 20 minuts now!

- Strains

 

[Strainbrain]

There have been other photos of similar top buds on IC in the past... I think GMT's got the best pics of them though. (There was one a couple months back, a Sour Diesel was it?)

But the others looked just the same, so I would assume that it's a pretty typical formation.

-s

 

[GMT]

I've had something do something similar but on a far smaller scale, more like a topped bud than what is happening to that one. The stem is really flat, well not really, but standard depth and width of about 2 or 3 plants worth. So that top is just following the natural form for the plant, which is unatural lol. So this is really a first, I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.

 

[GMT]

that's interesting SB, I havent seen one to my knowledge. If you come accross one on your travels, link me to it if you remember when you see it please. I'd like to see it and also see how it turned out in the end.

 

[shaunmulok]

Polyploidy in Plants

Polyploidy can be induced with chemicals such as colchicine,

I have a Friend who works at a farm growing seedless watermelon seedless cucumber and some other varieties, Their common practice is to use a product called florel which can be purchased, it is used in the first week third week and at the start of flowering as it also induces female flower production, he has stated after seeing my tri and quad that they are a familiar site to him at work he said that the tri trait does come from the dna but can be reproduced with the aid of colchicine which i think is the technical name for Florel as it makes the cells reproduce/multiply now i think this product can also be found in Dutch Masters Reverse, But he did say that the plant he sees are nearly always normal plants at the start so in breeding i dont thin kit would be passed on ? i dont know

He is in no way qualified he has just made these observations in the last 8 year growing seedless varieties commercially

 

[shaunmulok]

Wasn,t there a pic of a bud like GMT's on the front page of icmag around Jan or Feb i think

 

[GMT]

yes, and yes. poisons can be used to create triploids, and trifoliars can also show themselves after this process, but that isn't to say that they are the same plants. A trifoliar plant may be diploid, triploid, or anyploid that you can imagine almost. Species of 3 leaf clovers are many varieties of ploids, yet all have 3 leaves (appart from the lucky ones ). A trifoliar weed plant is most probably a diploid plant. Though bifoliar triploids may also exist.

 

[shaunmulok]

Are these products poisons

 

[GMT]

yes, I'm amazed it is used in the production of foods.

 

[GMT]

Since MyAssisGrass made it easy to search the past photo of the month entrants, I found the pics refered to. They were from Jonas and the strain was NYCD

Just be clear, NOT MY PICS

 

[Strainbrain]

Those are the ones! I'd just sat down to dig 'em up myself, and saw this post. Nice work.

-s