205w LED vs 400w HID Let the battle begin!

[LEDGirl]

I won't reply to anything more as this thread belongs to Blazeoneup.

Wow, didn't take long before you turned into a hypocrite now did it? All for what? To make another jab at me? Until you PAY for your own forum, or give lights away to people on this board for free, shut it. You're not the one spending thousands to "put your money where your mouth is", you simply put your mouth everywhere it's not asked to be. So Mr. 20 posts, please let Blaze get back to his test using our 205W that we supplied for free, and let the rest of the members here watch his grow in peace.

As for sponsored threads - does your sponsorship entitle you to market your product in every thread on icmag, or just your own vendor forum?

As far as sponsored threads, when you are NOT a sponsor, and have not given money to this site in any way, what entitles YOU to market someone else's product on this forum? Or better yet, a thread we sponsored? Don't sit here and pin questions on me when you're the one butting into another user's thread, simply to advertise for another company, on a forum where their lights have been banned due to their shady business and marketing practices. I'm free to post here just like any other member, except I also pay to be here. You DON'T. So if anyone has entitlement in this situation, it's certainly not you.

 

[danimarie193]

would you guys leave this poor guys thread alone. i was trying to learn something here, but now all that can be found here is bitching.

 

[blazeoneup]

would you guys leave this poor guys thread alone. i was trying to learn something here, but now all that can be found here is bitching.

I'm sure the dust will settle...

Were gonna find out over the next 8 weeks what produces better yields.

Will the LED plants with more tops and tighter nodes and smaller stalks
(OUTPERFORM)
the HID plants which have fewer shoots and tops and more spaced out internodes with thicker stalks?

Only time will tell, Both have advantages...

HID advantages, Thicker stalks can support thicker buds, Less tops equals more light penetration and less cola's.

LED advantages, More tops and tigher nodes, More tops equals more cola's tighter nodes equals tighter nugs.

Sounds the bell, DING DING

 

[blazeoneup]

I like the idea of comparing a 400w led with a 400w hid that would show us the true watt for watt comparison that is the best way to get the facts.

Cause lets face it if the HID does outperform the LED well at half the wattage its kinda unfair as is, But I have to admit for being 185w roughly its sure performs well...

Closest I can compare with watt for watt is a 175w mh I used many many years ago and surely I couldn't get six plant the size I have them now with a 175w mh. watt for watt I would have to assume the LED would win hands down!

I'd be interested in seeing how much heat difference it would be watt for watt also. Does 400w of leds produce the heat of a 400w hid.

 

[MedicalMan]

I like the idea of comparing a 400w led with a 400w hid that would show us the true watt for watt comparison that is the best way to get the facts.

At least then people can get a worthwhile comparison.

Cause lets face it if the HID does outperform the LED well at half the wattage its kinda unfair as is, But I have to admit for being 185w roughly its sure performs well...

I agree. I've seen some decent LED grows that if watt for watt could very well outperform HPS. As mentioned above, be nice to see a worthwhile comparison.

Closest I can compare with watt for watt is a 175w mh I used many many years ago and surely I couldn't get six plant the size I have them now with a 175w mh. watt for watt I would have to assume the LED would win hands down!

I've never ran MH but from what i know it has alot more blue in it's spectrum than HPS. I remember some fellow growers at OG used MH for flowering and produced some heavily resined buds. Definitely not a big producer.

I'd be interested in seeing how much heat difference it would be watt for watt also. Does 400w of leds produce the heat of a 400w hid.

I had a word with a fellow grower the other day about heat from that 740w LED. He said without venting the temps went up 8 degrees - of course every growroom will be different, but 8 degrees celsius is quite a rise.


Have a good day Blazeoneup and keep us posted.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

At least then people can get a worthwhile comparison.

This is the most worthwhile comparison I've seen. Something doesn't have to conform to your pointless standards in order to be worthwhile.

Even a watt for watt comparison would be difficult, as LED lights use less watts than their advertised wattage, and HIDs use considerably more.

 

[MedicalMan]

This is the most worthwhile comparison I've seen. Something doesn't have to conform to your pointless standards in order to be worthwhile.

Even a watt for watt comparison would be difficult, as LED lights use less watts than their advertised wattage, and HIDs use considerably more.

Ok i'll rise to the bait mr Hydro-Gro.

Just go with 2 x 205w (370w?) LED's v 400w HPS - that way you won't have to conform to my pointless standards. Let me know when it's up and running.



Check the link Blazeoneup (tried to PM) - now that's productive:
The guy has 50-60 180w LED UFO's rigged. Think he's pulling 2lb per 4 x 180 led.
http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/464971-growing-180w-jumbo-ufo-13.html

 

[Dorje113]

I'd be interested in seeing how much heat difference it would be watt for watt also. Does 400w of leds produce the heat of a 400w hid.

400W = 400W, it all turns into heat eventually. The only exception is if the light is vented, then some of that wattage will get moved outside the room.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Ok i'll rise to the bait mr Hydro-Gro.

Just go with 2 x 205w (370w?) LED's v 400w HPS - that way you won't have to conform to my pointless standards. Let me know when it's up and running.

I'm not sure why feel the need to affiliate me with HGL, maybe it was supposed to be a dig?

The footprints of a single 400w HID and two 205w LED panels would be quite different, around 12~sq ft for LEDs vs 5~sq ft for the HID. If that's the test you want to see, don't tell other people to do it, do it yourself.

I'll be putting a 205w and a 126w panel in a 5~sq ft space, I won't be doing any side by sides.

Have you seen the PAR ratings of the LED panels? You should check it out.

 

[MedicalMan]

I'm not sure why feel the need to affiliate me with HGL, maybe it was supposed to be a dig?

The footprints of a single 400w HID and two 205w LED panels would be quite different, around 12~sq ft for LEDs vs 5~sq ft for the HID. If that's the test you want to see, don't tell other people to do it, do it yourself.

I personally would stick within 30w-50w per square foot (50w is preferable, though not always practical) - that's usually good to go. So 8sq ft per light would suffice.

A mate is considering buying some LED's... see how they perform - if it goes in that direction i'll get some pics/info up.

I'll be putting a 205w and a 126w panel in a 5~sq ft space, I won't be doing any side by sides.

Have you seen the PAR ratings of the LED panels? You should check it out.

That's 66w per square foot. Should do nicely. Will you be putting up a grow diary?

Yeah i've seen the PAR ratings - looks good, but real world results are what count, right?

If you haven't done so already you should check that link i posted for Blazeoneup. Best LED setup i've seen.

 

[treefrog]

I have been subscribed to this thread, but abstained from comment until now.

medicalman's name dropping and bashing of LEDGirl is getting quite redundant, not to mention disrespectful.

Even if the LED is CLOSE to the 400 in yield, (at half the wattage) it's the clear winner.

But, but, but.....no buts! Judge the performance based on money in and money out, the true test of efficiency. So, as you see, at half (close) the cost in electricity, if the LED is even close in yield, it is the winner by a long shot.

 

[Frozenguy]

400W = 400W, it all turns into heat eventually. The only exception is if the light is vented, then some of that wattage will get moved outside the room.

Thats a very general way of looking at it.
But watt is not a measurement of heat. So just because one thing is 500 watts and another is 500 watts does not mean they will produce the same heat. It has more to do with their efficiency, in terms of doing the work they were intended to perform.

LEDs are VERY efficient compared to HID and incandescent bulbs, essentially meaning they put out much less heat per watt and more light (their intended purpose) per watt.

 

[JJScorpio]

I've seen 3 grows with these lights so far so I know the LED'S are going to do a good job. If these follow suit Blaze is going to be surprised how hard the main cola gets with these lights........ I know I was. The guy I know is growing 4 of DutchGrowns strains at the moment and just started flowering....

Lets not clutter this with any more arguments......

 

[gunslinger]

hi blaze truely a nice test u have here i wanna c how it goes thumbs up man

 

[Dorje113]

Thats a very general way of looking at it.
But watt is not a measurement of heat. So just because one thing is 500 watts and another is 500 watts does not mean they will produce the same heat. It has more to do with their efficiency, in terms of doing the work they were intended to perform.

LEDs are VERY efficient compared to HID and incandescent bulbs, essentially meaning they put out much less heat per watt and more light (their intended purpose) per watt.

A Watt is a measurement of power, or energy over time. Heat generation is measured in Watts.

In this case, the laws of thermodynamics will tell you that a device that consumes 400W will produce 400W of heat. Doesn't matter whether it's LED, HID, toaster oven, or hammer drill. It all turns into heat in the end, unless you have a way of doing work or moving heat outside the growing area, which is why we vent hoods or co2 generators, to remove heat. While a LED is more effecient at generating light, eventually the light is absorbed by something and turns into heat.

As far as temps in a growing room, 400W LED = 400W HID, but the plants may receive more radiant heat from a bare HID bulb than from LEDs, but radiant heat decreases at the 4th power of distance, so it's only a factor for plant temp at the canopy, which can be significant... again, vented hoods help.

 

[MedicalMan]

I have been subscribed to this thread, but abstained from comment until now.

medicalman's name dropping and bashing of LEDGirl is getting quite redundant, not to mention disrespectful.

Even if the LED is CLOSE to the 400 in yield, (at half the wattage) it's the clear winner.

But, but, but.....no buts! Judge the performance based on money in and money out, the true test of efficiency. So, as you see, at half (close) the cost in electricity, if the LED is even close in yield, it is the winner by a long shot.

The only reason i listed those usernames off of OG was to verify what i stated. I wouldn't necessarily call it name dropping. The only username you will have heard of would be BOG - it was along time ago.

 

[Frozenguy]

A Watt is a measurement of power, or energy over time. Heat generation is measured in Watts.

In this case, the laws of thermodynamics will tell you that a device that consumes 400W will produce 400W of heat. Doesn't matter whether it's LED, HID, toaster oven, or hammer drill. It all turns into heat in the end, unless you have a way of doing work or moving heat outside the growing area, which is why we vent hoods or co2 generators, to remove heat. While a LED is more effecient at generating light, eventually the light is absorbed by something and turns into heat.

As far as temps in a growing room, 400W LED = 400W HID, but the plants may receive more radiant heat from a bare HID bulb than from LEDs, but radiant heat decreases at the 4th power of distance, so it's only a factor for plant temp at the canopy, which can be significant... again, vented hoods help.

I thought it did work to make the light. Then the light did work on the leafs and on the surrounding areas, which basically brings all the heat into the room at the end of the day.
Either way, I was talking more along the lines of immediate radiant heat. My cab with the 126w LED unit stays cool almost all day but slowly heats up. My cab with a 150HID unit is 90deg + within an hour (if no ventilation on both).

I mean, isn't that kind of like saying that my car did 0 mechanical work throughout the drive if I parked it where I departed from (x,y,z) and so all that gas burnt just made heat? Its true, but ok..

 

[Hydro-Soil]

so I hit them with floramite 3 times 5 days apart

Although I use Azamax.... the breeding/hatching cycle of the mite is around 2 weeks.... hitting them with floramite 3 times 7-10 days apart would have been much more effective. You hit them with the floramite the last time... right before they hatched again.

I'm not a big fan of the pest strips either, especially if I have plants in flower... or I have to be in the room at any time. Chemical nasty that just messes up my lungs.

Stay Safe!

 

[blazeoneup]

Although I use Azamax.... the breeding/hatching cycle of the mite is around 2 weeks.... hitting them with floramite 3 times 7-10 days apart would have been much more effective. You hit them with the floramite the last time... right before they hatched again.

I'm not a big fan of the pest strips either, especially if I have plants in flower... or I have to be in the room at any time. Chemical nasty that just messes up my lungs.

Stay Safe!

From my understanding floramite kills the eggs and the mites...

But of course the rate at which mites hatch and mature is based directly on the environment they are in, They breed and mature at faster or slower rates depending on your environmental settings.

If they was truely taking 2 weeks to mature and produce eggs and hatch new, Then how in the world could they have gotten the numbers high enough to cause such a severe infestation? Think of it like this at week 1 flower there was no sign of mites at all, Week 5 I noticed the first little spotting, By week 8 there must have been 10,000+ mites to form such a nest, So how in the world can the numbers go from very very little to massive in 3 weeks time if it takes 2 weeks for one cycle to take place?

Thanks for sharing your experience but I believe its far off from what my experience was.

 

[wg1750]

Comparing apples to oranges

Comparing apples to oranges

I like the idea of comparing a 400w led with a 400w hid that would show us the true watt for watt comparison that is the best way to get the facts.

Cause lets face it if the HID does outperform the LED well at half the wattage its kinda unfair as is, But I have to admit for being 185w roughly its sure performs well...

Closest I can compare with watt for watt is a 175w mh I used many many years ago and surely I couldn't get six plant the size I have them now with a 175w mh. watt for watt I would have to assume the LED would win hands down!

I'd be interested in seeing how much heat difference it would be watt for watt also. Does 400w of leds produce the heat of a 400w hid.

Gentlemen the discussion regarding comparison with like wattage lights, would not be valid for this evaluation. Let me explain, HID lights are like a shotgun with an open bore spreading shots “or light” all over the place. It puts out a very wide spectrum of light, which a good percentage of the light is not used in the process of photosynthesis by the plant. The beauty of the LED is that it can be constructed to produce a spectrum of light that is proper for maximal use by Chlorophyll A & B to provide maximal photosynthesis. If designed properly every watt of energy used by the LED is useable light for the plant, where as only 50 to 60% of the light produced by an HID bulb is useable by the plant.
A correctly designed LED light is designed to meet the requirements of Photosynthesis for the plants we love.