2024 US Presidential Election

[moose eater]

in eugene, or they have mental health intervention teams that are out patrolling at all times. they are law enforcement officers but are psychiatrically trained and their job is to de-escalate before the shooters show up.

i have seen cops beat an un-armed drunk almost to death with nightsticks so bad he was taken away on a stretcher on bourbon st back in the late 60's.

in san francisco during the 1968 halloween riots on haight st, i saw cops in full riot gear beat a very pregnant girl senseless and we later heard she lost the baby.

i watched uniformed officers steal thousands of dollars from a old chinese gentleman in the booking area of the hall of justice. "hall of justice", what a fucking joke! this was while i was waiting my turn to be booked.

there were these two undercover narcs in frisco that were famous for planting evidence and then taking bribes to let you go.

in memphis in the early 70's two more undercover narcs kicked in the door of a house i was staying at with no warrant. a big old run down victorian with 9-10 people living there.

they did it when nobody was home and stole all the tv's and stereos, watches, jewelry, and legal guns. and then left a note saying that they had found narcotics in the house and anyone who wanted to come downtown to claim their stuff would be arrested for it.

i could go on and on with instances of bad cops being bad if i could remember them all. oh, yeah, in the florida keys late 70's there were a bunch of monroe county deputies who, for the right price, would come down to the dock where you were unloading dope from a boat onto trucks. they would block the roads coming in and monitor radios and give advance warning if other cops were heading that way.

one night the coast guard caught a large sailboat stuffed with colombian weed, maybe 10-12 thousand lbs. they brought it to the dock at truman annex and had monroe county deputies "guard" it for them. the next morning the boat was gone and no one knew anything about it.

the evidence locker at the monroe county sheriffs dept. downtown got about 20 kilos of coke removed from it one night. one of the deputies and the key west fire chief, who were cousins, disappeared the same night.

the mayor's son got caught with a winnebago full of weed by the state highway patrol and the case never went to court, the local cops said they didn't find any evidence in it after it was impounded.

key west was a seething hotbed of criminal enterprise when i lived there from 75' to 80".

a travel writer from new york described the attitude of local law enforcement as one of "sleezy indulgence".

There's a trend to train cops and others for MH crises, but when examining MMPI scores for those who seek positions of power, the Bubba Brigade isn't always the best pool for such resources, either.

 

[moose eater]

Are froglegs any good? Ive never tried them. Heard its like chicken but so is rabbit

"Tastes like chicken". Deep-fried and breaded or sauteed.

And many/most of the legs on the market these days are raised in China as farmed product. Imagine that image in your mind for a moment.

Otherwise, they're pretty decent. I still have a lb. of those in the freezer as well but those were bought for me by my daughter at a really good Asian market in Los Anchorage.

 

[RobFromTX]

"Tastes like chicken". Deep-fried and breaded or sauteed.

And many/most of the legs on the market these days are raised in China as farmed product. Imagine that image in your mind for a moment.

Otherwise, they're pretty decent. I still have a lb. of those in the freezer as well but those were bought for me by my daughter at a really good Asian market in Los Anchorage.

Los Anchorage. I told my friend in Bartlett i went to gradeschool with up there about your name for it and he uses it now

Hard to imagine Alaska being a popular place for Californians. With the winters and all

 

[greyfader]

Are froglegs any good? Ive never tried them. Heard its like chicken but so is rabbit

bullfrogs are similar to chicken but with a subtle difference in flavor. more fishy. they inhabit ponds and rivers in the deep south and eat mostly fish. but they will also eat anything they can get in their mouth like small ducklings, lizards and snakes, insects. they get pretty big. i've grabbed 3-4 lb frogs before. i got 72 out of 75 attempts one night hand grabbing from a boat. along the mississippi river there are these sloughs that are like small rivers that branch off the big river and run 10-15-20 miles sometimes before they re-enter the main river.

they are loaded with big frogs. the technique is two guys in a 12 ft jon boat with a 25 hp on it. one guy runs the boat and holds a powerful spotlight, searching the banks for the red eyes. the other guy hangs off the front end of the boat with his feet braced under the seat so he doesn't fall out and get run over.

the driver runs the boat, at speed, onto the bank trying to run over the frog. the guy in front has to grab the frog before it realizes what's happening and then push the boat off the bank with a paddle.

we used trash cans with overlapped old inner tubes stretched across the top so we could just shove the frog in without having to open a lid.

we used a 707 landing light hooked to a big truck battery.

it was a little dangerous because you could fall out of the boat and get pressed face-first in the mud and sometimes the red eyes were not frogs but big poisonous cottonmouth moccasins. you had a split second to make the decision to grab or not to grab.

we also shot beavers for the reward from the army corps of engineers. the beavers were cutting down all the trees along the banks and were messing up the erosion control. they paid 10 bucks per tail no matter what size.

we started out shooting them with .22's but they would make it down the bank and into the water after being shot and you would never see them again. so we moved up to 12 ga shotguns with #4 buckshot and that did a better job but some would still make it to the water. usually about 10 yards or so.

so then we bought a ruger 44 magnum carbine and that did it. no more lost beavers. the shock stopped them in their tracks.

at first we thought that we could skin them and sell the fur but beavers in the deep south don't have quality fur. it's too coarse and not dense enough.

 

[armedoldhippy]

in eugene, or they have mental health intervention teams that are out patrolling at all times. they are law enforcement officers but are psychiatrically trained and their job is to de-escalate before the shooters show up.

why these are not required everywhere beats the hell out of me. sending (visibly) armed officers to "assist" someone having a mental breakdown is just asking for trouble. WTF ???

 

[armedoldhippy]

sometimes the red eyes were not frogs but big poisonous cottonmouth moccasins. you had a split second to make the decision to grab or not to grab.

idiot (drunk guy) i took frogging one night stuck a gig between what he thought were a pair of bullfrog eyes, but actually belonged to a BIG f'ing snapping turtle with just the eyes showing in the pond scum... took me twenty minutes to get the gig back out. big bastard 'bout got me three or four times.

 

[xtsho]

Behavioral Health Unit

The mission of the Behavioral Health Unit is to coordinate the response of Law Enforcement and the Behavioral Health System to aid people in behavioral crisis resulting from known or suspected mental illness and or drug and alcohol addiction.

www.portland.gov

 

[moose eater]

Los Anchorage. I told my friend in Bartlett i went to gradeschool with up there about your name for it and he uses it now

Hard to imagine Alaska being a popular place for Californians. With the winters and all

More in reference to the size of population, traffic, and the pull they have in State politics by being approximately half of the population of the State, while often having little clue about the majority of the remote areas of the State and how the people live in those places. Metrosexual yuppie Urbanians making policy for places that don't even have roads, scant economy, and often live off of newer or more evolved forms of subsistence still.

 

[RobFromTX]

More in reference to the size of population, traffic, and the pull they have in State politics by being approximately half of the population of the State, while often having little clue about the majority of the remote areas of the State and how the people live in those places. Metrosexual yuppie Urbanians making policy for places that don't even have roads, scant economy, and often live off of newer or more evolved forms of subsistence still.

Sounds like Austingeles. Ive been around and I can tell you every state has that one city that has little to no regard for what its like for everyone else

 

[moose eater]

Behavioral Health Unit

The mission of the Behavioral Health Unit is to coordinate the response of Law Enforcement and the Behavioral Health System to aid people in behavioral crisis resulting from known or suspected mental illness and or drug and alcohol addiction.

www.portland.gov

That's the way it SHOULD go where these teams work, but the cops are typically trained from a fairly rigid point of view, tend to live there much of the time, and adherence to policy can sometimes be too much of a priority.

The assessment of who is a danger to themselves and others, potentially warranting a 72-hour ex parte' hold in a psych facility, can vary in perception/assessment, and when you have folks who approach life from a rigid viewpoint and are form the more structured places in life, those ropes can get drawn in more tightly than they need to.

and even in Bonafide high risk cases, if the psych facilities that are utilized for these holds are over-populated, under-staffed, etc., I've seen a valid ex parte' hold get kicked loose in less than 24 hours.

But it's a definite improvement.

My former boss at a hippie-meets-sports-bar restaurant in Fairbanks in the early '80s squeezed the trigger when the cops showed up when he was distraught over his marriage ending due to the karma he'd created with fucking around and more.. Had it been left to his friend who was already on-site and quite effectively talking him down, he wouldn't likely have gone at that time in my opinion.

Numerous cases herein the last several years, including the case of a young man by the last name Eyre, who was disturbed by some issues in life, the family had phoned the Troopers to ask for a welfare check as he was walking down the road and had a firearm with him. They wasted him and continued to pump bullets into him even after he was on the ground.

 

[moose eater]

Sounds like Austingeles. Ive been around and I can tell you every state has that one city that has little to no regard for what its like for everyone else

When there's a warm snow (around freezing temps) and the majority of the people on the expressway are still doing 70 mph though the slush, with 10' to 15' between them, indicating they have little common sense or idea of personal boundaries or inertia where driving safety is concerned, I tend to avoid those places like the plague.

Edit: "Lemmings with horsepower and Japanese tin around them."

 

[armedoldhippy]

the family had phoned the Troopers to ask for a welfare check

morons. might as well have shot him themselves and saved the state some gas money... cops think "welfare check" means armed and dangerous (truthfully, sometimes that's EXACTLY what it means), be sure that YOU get the first 5 shots off.

 

[greyfader]

why these are not required everywhere beats the hell out of me. sending (visibly) armed officers to "assist" someone having a mental breakdown is just asking for trouble. WTF ???

the program in eugene was called "cahoots" and they drove around in big white vans without police markings on them. it just said "cahoots" in big letters on the sides. they wore different uniforms than the regulars and didn't wear sidearms. although i'm sure they had one or two around somewhere.

i found a pic of the vans they used. the people in the pic are not the ones that operated the vans. they are state officials getting publicity for the program.

i think about half of the homeless were having a mental health crisis.

 

[Gry]

Have always wondered at what point would the number of police deaths be such that they
can no longer be insured at reasonable cost.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Have always wondered at what point would the number of police deaths be such that they
can no longer be insured at reasonable cost.

Detroit pays out millions every year over unjustified shootings by officers there. one officer i read about had three all by himself... damned overachievers.

 

[moose eater]

W

Have always wondered at what point would the number of police deaths be such that they
can no longer be insured at reasonable cost.

Washington DC PD was sued so many times for violating civil rights, esp. during protests, that for a good long while they actually behaved themselves, and I believe that their insurers had something to do with that.

Though that was spawned by infractions of a different nature.

But yes, when insurance companies have to pay $millions numerous times over for wrongful death, excessive force, personal injury, etc., etc., eventually the folks with the abacuses in the ivory towers come out and say, "STOP" Because, you know, in the US, it's money that matters.

 

[greyfader]

W

Washington DC PD was sued so many times for violating civil rights, esp. during protests, that for a good long while they actually behaved themselves, and I believe that their insurers had something to do with that.

Though that was spawned by infractions of a different nature.

But yes, when insurance companies have to pay $millions numerous times over for wrongful death, excessive force, personal injury, etc., etc., eventually the folks with the abacuses in the ivory towers come out and say, "STOP" Because, you know, in the US, it's money that matters.

having been a registered rep for john hancock financial services in boston and cleveland, i can tell you that the actuaries are closely observing all scenarios for loss. they don't like losing money.

everytime there's an incident where the insurer has to make a large payout to the insured they will jack up rates to compensate.

eventually, in the cases of wrongful death by law enforcement, the insured will decide that it's cheaper to hire more psychologically stable individuals and train and pay them better.

so, i don't think we should defund the police at all. i think we should hire higher quality recruits and pay them more.

but, there needs to be more transparency to go along with it. we can't have cops covering up for each other or planting evidence to further their careers. bribery should be harshly punished.

in states where they don't pay enough, bribery is rampant. in states where the pay is good, you are more likely to be arrested for even trying.

in alabama, in some small municipalities, the starting pay for rookie patrolmen is $16, 400 per year. that's not even enough to pay basic bills and feed the family.

in california,

"The starting salary for a California Highway Patrol (CHP) officer is $8,318 per month, with an estimated yearly gross income of $110,328 when including monthly pay incentives. This salary does not include overtime."

you try to bribe one of those guys and you will be going straight to jail.

thanks for the musical references, moose, i haven't heard either of those in a long time. it's the truth!

 

[moose eater]

having been a registered rep for john hancock financial services in boston and cleveland, i can tell you that the actuaries are closely observing all scenarios for loss. they don't like losing money.

everytime there's an incident where the insurer has to make a large payout to the insured they will jack up rates to compensate.

eventually, in the cases of wrongful death by law enforcement, the insured will decide that it's cheaper to hire more psychologically stable individuals and train and pay them better.

so, i don't think we should defund the police at all. i think we should hire higher quality recruits and pay them more.

but, there needs to be more transparency to go along with it. we can't have cops covering up for each other or planting evidence to further their careers. bribery should be harshly punished.

in states where they don't pay enough, bribery is rampant. in states where the pay is good, you are more likely to be arrested for even trying.

in alabama, in some small municipalities, the starting pay for rookie patrolmen is $16, 400 per year. that's not even enough to pay basic bills and feed the family.

in california,

"The starting salary for a California Highway Patrol (CHP) officer is $8,318 per month, with an estimated yearly gross income of $110,328 when including monthly pay incentives. This salary does not include overtime."

you try to bribe one of those guys and you will be going straight to jail.

thanks for the musical references, moose, i haven't heard either of those in a long time. it's the truth!

Gary pointed out in his comments at the 13th Annual International Conference on Drug Policy Reform in DC in 2000, where and when I met him, that the officers busted in the NOLa case I referenced were all pretty much under-educated, underpaid, and that while the vast majority of their victims were younger Black men, some/many of the offending officers were Black. That while race was at the foundation of the onset of the drug war, and while the arrests of minorities is way imbalanced on a per capita basis, those arrests and shake-downs in NOLa were about power, greed, money, and playing a system that was too easily played, and especially in a world where too many are conditioned to perceive cops inherently as do-gooder Eagle Scouts; they're often not.

But re. your figures, there are many places in California where a small cottage on a corner lot in a postage-stamp lot-size subdivision is well over $1million price tag, so some of that is relative, too.

And more often than not, in the still-rare occasions when LEO are charged, they are typically under-charged, with the Dept of Law in many places merely tossing a bone to the public or those harmed as a matter of -seeming- to require justice.

The case I referred to involving the 2 Troopers in Soldotna who are now charged with 4th degree misdemeanor assault is a clear example of this. In Alaska, merely brandishing a deadly weapon can get you a third degree felony assault. What those two scumbags did clearly meets criteria for 2nd degree felony assault. Yet they're charged with 4th degree misdemeanor assault.

A -part- of the issue here for the Troopers and the State, believe it or not, is the amount of money invested in training these miscreants, and they actually view that as a priority issue in many of these cases; fear of forfeiting a Trooper who has had X amount of training on the State's dime, and the fact that a serious conviction for a felony casts doubt on all of that Trooper's/cop's past testimony and activity in previous cases.

But, like with the military, there are also verifiable cases of would-be cops applying for a job and being rejected due to too high of scores on various tests. They want automatons who will do what they're told, no matter how wrong it might appear, as they want people who will follow orders and follow their commanders, not human being s with consciences.. That ought to tell you something about the perceived nature of their tasks.

I can tell you about a serious felony grow case involving a childhood friend who is a bit older than I am, who was down for a third count in Pennsylvania, and was looking at serious time for cultivation while he had 5 kids, wife and a business to take care of, who already had a conviction back in the later 70s for selling a kilo to some federal UCs.

Same group of rogue cops busted the brother of a friend of mine and seized property from the family at a residence that wasn't even on the search warrant, taking a BUNCH of money from my friend's father that was the result of the sale of a house. (Neither friend of mine knew each other, and one of them I met a quarter-century ago in Alaska, but they'd been hit by the same group of cops, and that Joint Jurisdictional Drug Task Force, based in Erie, was 100% funded by seizure and forfeiture. What could possibly go wrong with THAT arrangement??!!.. sarcasm..)

That group of cops was notorious for perjuring themselves in search warrant affidavits as well as incident reports and arrest warrant affidavits and court testimony from the stand..

My friend with the third bust contested the evidence and testimony the cops had submitted (cops had lied about altitude they came in at in their chopper, they were well below required altitude for where they were flying, and the plain view they claimed to have, with local redneck farmers testifying that they'd personally witnessed the cops engaged in the bust in reference dragging outdoor grown plants from other properties adjacent to my friend's place, onto my friend's property).

He hired a former judge as an attorney, and dug deep to find financing to make it happen. That attorney pulled some serious theatrics in court, making it look like one of the cops had whispered a threat in court, though he hadn't.

The former judge turned attorney took $10,000 in cash in an envelope from my friend, and it was passed to the judge in the case (I'm sure that no one witnessed this other than the judge and the attorney), and the case went away.

I was glad for my friend, but I told him that it left me sick considering the implications of what this means for our system and Country. You have to be as twisted as the fascists sometimes to win, and it still highlights the role of corrupt money in these situations.

 

[moose eater]

having been a registered rep for john hancock financial services in boston and cleveland, i can tell you that the actuaries are closely observing all scenarios for loss. they don't like losing money.

everytime there's an incident where the insurer has to make a large payout to the insured they will jack up rates to compensate.

eventually, in the cases of wrongful death by law enforcement, the insured will decide that it's cheaper to hire more psychologically stable individuals and train and pay them better.

so, i don't think we should defund the police at all. i think we should hire higher quality recruits and pay them more.

but, there needs to be more transparency to go along with it. we can't have cops covering up for each other or planting evidence to further their careers. bribery should be harshly punished.

in states where they don't pay enough, bribery is rampant. in states where the pay is good, you are more likely to be arrested for even trying.

in alabama, in some small municipalities, the starting pay for rookie patrolmen is $16, 400 per year. that's not even enough to pay basic bills and feed the family.

in california,

"The starting salary for a California Highway Patrol (CHP) officer is $8,318 per month, with an estimated yearly gross income of $110,328 when including monthly pay incentives. This salary does not include overtime."

you try to bribe one of those guys and you will be going straight to jail.

thanks for the musical references, moose, i haven't heard either of those in a long time. it's the truth!

The short of it is this; in those departments and legal systems where corruption is rooted deeply, there is no morphing what is there. It's like my example or metaphor earlier... If you cut a third of a petri dish culture out and return the petri dish to the incubator, the same culture you cut a third of from it will grow right back.

That trip where I was taking lbs. of Colombian to Wrangell Island in SE Alaska from the Mid-West that funded part of my motorcycle trip in the 4 corners area?? A news story on the air then in Chicago when I was passing through on my way had to do with Chicago Internal Affairs running a sweep on police lockers in Chicago and coming up with over 270 throw-down firearms with no numbers on them.

You know what those are used for, right? Drop an unarmed perp or an innocent, or wrongfully shoot someone under any circumstances, and drop the unregistered un-numbered piece on them, Scrutiny largely goes away.

Remember Frank Serpico? He was still alive a couple years back, living in (I believe) rural Upstate New York. Ray Metcalfe, my friend and fellow activist, as well as former legislator, contacted him to discuss Ray's anti-corruption initiative. Serpico has some insights into police corruption.

 

[moose eater]

By the way, in a news cast this morning, European women are finding their images and accounts from Instagram and/or FB have been stolen, their images reworked to put them in Trump gear, encouraging others to support Trump.

The assessment by the forensic techies is that it's a coordinated effort, but that there's no proof (yet) as to who is behind it, including no evidence yet that it's directly linked to the Trump campaign.