What's new
  • As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.

2024 US Presidential Election

Who will become next President in U.S. what do you think?

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 42 60.9%

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 27 39.1%
  • Total voters
    69
H

Hiddenjems

Well-known member
moose eater said:
As I've said before, I think some confuse toxic nationalism with real heart-felt patriotism... And real patriotism includes criticizing those things (and changing them) that need fixed, just as raising a child properly involves straightening their course when they're off the rails. Otherwise, no one wants to have anything to do with them later on, and they essentially become a menace, or a nuisance for others.
Click to expand...
I love my country not my government.

Diversity isn’t our strength, e pluribus unum is. Strength is always from unity and historically we keep making one country out of a baskin robins variety of folks.
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
Hiddenjems said:
I love my country not my government.

Diversity isn’t our strength, e pluribus unum is. Strength is always from unity and historically we keep making one country out of a baskin robins variety of folks.
Click to expand...
Loving your country, just like loving your child, in no way necessitates putting others down, or assuming higher status because of some songs sang in kindergarten, or letting wrongs slide because it was wrapped in a flag or they carry someone specific's DNA, or making assumptions about those places and people that, other than the pablum and propaganda in the tabloids, many know literally nothing about.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-known member
Microbeman said:
To be clear, to me being a patriot is one who goes rah rah over their country; e.g. chanting USA!; says it is the best country in the world; says it is the only country in the world where I could become a success - on and on. This is not only moronic but is the very attitude which creates hate of other countries/cultures and wars; it is like saying one religion is better than others - just look at Israel and their patriotism.

There are things about the US and parts of the country I love - same with Canada, same with Mexico. Someone could drop me in the wilderness in Washington or BC, Alberta or Montana, Michigan or Ontario, Quebec or New York, Texas or Chihuahua and I would not be able to tell the difference. I can love the land equally. There are things I love and dislike about the US, Canadian and Mexican governments and their people, in general.

It is when puny minded people create allegiances which supposedly give them title above others that vanity and patriotism steps in and creates conflict, prejudice, pride in meaningless crap.

As far as the whole bullshit goes about only being able to become a success by working your way up in the USA, it is actually way more attainable in Canada. Personally as an American, I was able to do business with Americans better, easier, with less red tape and lower taxes from Canada. It is not quite as easy from Mexico but it is improving. I'm not certain about Europe but seemingly there are many financial successes - The European Dream?
Click to expand...

I have no allegiance to any party or single man or woman. I'm an American and feel fortunate to have been born in America and enjoy things people in most of the world only dream of.

Clean drinkable water is something many don't have yet we use it to flush our bodily waste into the modern sewer systems instead of dumping that waste in the street.

Free public education where both males and females are treated equally and have the same access to education.

A modern fire department that can arrive in minutes to save your house and belongings.

A criminal justice system that while flawed in many ways is one of the fairest in the world and provides representation to all even those that are indigent.

Many of these things are available in other countries as well. But the one thing America is definitely the leader in is opportunity. If you have a brain and are willing to work you can make a decent living regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation, etc...

It's not perfect and it never will be because none of us are perfect so there is always going to be something that can be improved. There are always going to be flaws. Those that want to take advantage of others. Those that want to harm others.

But overall I would not want to be a citizen of any other country on earth. I may want to visit. Possibly even live there for some time. But I'll always be an American that loves my country and always call it my home.

Call that what you want but if that's Patriotism then I'm guilty as hell and am not ashamed of it at all.
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
Hiddenjems said:
I love my country not my government.

Diversity isn’t our strength, e pluribus unum is. Strength is always from unity and historically we keep making one country out of a baskin robins variety of folks.
Click to expand...
My tribe on my mother's side arrived in the 'New Country' from Ireland, in part, in the 1700s.

I've gotten along with nearly all cultures, lifestyles, and religions, as well as other segments of society that we divide into groups, throughout my whole life, if looking specifically at those general attributes.

Boundary-challenged, self-inflated assholes, not so much.
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member

Quality-of-Life Indicators

www.isqols.org

OECD Better Life Index

www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org

Quality of life indicators - measuring quality of life - Statistics Explained

Statistics are presented on many dimensions of quality of life in the EU, completing the traditional measure of economic development - the GDP.
ec.europa.eu ec.europa.eu

Loading…

www.usnews.com

link.springer.com

A value based index for measuring national quality of life - Social Indicators Research

A new index of the quality of life (QOL) of nations was created. The measured variables are selected based on a universal set of human values derived from the work of Schwartz (1994). The Basic QOL Index, designed primarily to discriminate between developing countries, includes seven variables...
link.springer.com link.springer.com

There are many other sites available, some better than others. but there's obviously a lot of subjectivity in some of the human 'balloons of self-importance' where hyper-nationalism is concerned, and among WAY too fucking many people.

Humility in the right moment can be a really good attribute, even an attractive thing. And our neighbors will/would/might think better of us for it, too.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-known member
Now bold motherfucker, don't you limit your mind
Can't you see that the message has fallen behind?
All the hate in your heart will be leaving you blind
So bold motherfucker, don't you limit your mind this time

Waiting, for your modern messiah
To take away all the hatred
That darkens the light in your eye
Still awaiting I

"Out of Zion shall come forth a law"
"And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem"
"Nation shall not raise sword against nation"
"And they shall not learn war anymore"
"For the mouth of the Lord hath spoken"

Waiting, for your modern messiah
To take away all the hatred
That darkens the light in your eye

How long will we be
Waiting, for your modern messiah
To take away all the hatred
That darkens the light in your eye
Still awaiting I

Still awaiting I

 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
xtsho said:
Yeah I don't know how they rank countries but Lebanon, Zimbabwe, El Salvador being in the top ten in 2023 is just ridiculous. No way in hell those countries were better than the United States which wasn't.
Click to expand...
And you know that how?

Maybe consider healthcare, rate per capita of imprisonment, cost of living based on local wages, etc.

I threw out a whole litany of indexes just for that purpose.

More information typically makes for better conclusions or end results..
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-known member
I'll use simple metrics to rank countries. What country is the most desired by those fleeing whatever they're fleeing?

The United States of America. There's a reason and it has nothing to do with some report from a .biz website.
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
xtsho said:
Science and stats based off what methodology?
Click to expand...
Most countries have indexes to address or define level of costs, health care and disease, etc.

Likely numerous methodologies.

And Bhutan has a Happiness Index or Quotient rather than making their people simply pawns on a chess board whose worth is measured by a GDP/GNP that the worker bees don't necessarily get to benefit from in the first place, in any direct sense.
 
I

igrowone

Well-known member
Veteran
moose eater said:
In my opinion that's pretty clear. If you lack the humility to know that you couldn't possibly claim being the best at anything, or at simply 'being', without having sampled all there is to sample or know, never mind the subjective nature of such statements of personal bias, then there's a serious amount of narcissism in that, and nationalists represent a form of narcissistic disorder, albeit a group membership type of narcissism. Borders on group psychosis or group delusion. And the US has been steeped in this shit for years now. Utter fucking poison.

Same asshats that kill or bruise people over rugby or other sports scores, because their mind is Cro-Magnon, and geared toward Klan or Clan (take your pick) reality. Too little self-awareness or deeper knowledge to the extent that lacking a real HONEST sense of themselves, they cling to an external identity. Nauseating to watch most of the time.

Bottom line is that many/most in such cliques had nothing to actually do with creating any country, community or sports team, and are often taking credit for shit they never did (by simply living some place, usually), wherein their citizenship was mostly decided by which country their mother was standing in when her water broke and whose passport she carried.

Successful life achievements to boast or fight about? Hardly.

In that regard, I'm pretty sure you were addressing nationalists. TOXIC nationalists.

Edit: After numerous projects and knowing some highly skilled tradespeople (who you'll never hear bragging about themselves), it became clear long ago that if a tradesperson or anyone else had to brag about their abilities, they probably didn't possess the abilities they claimed to the extent they claimed. Such inflated grandiose assholes have cost me $20,000 on at least one job..

Thus, I almost never hire someone with 'Best' or 'Premier' or similar in their business title. If they're that good, their work will show it, and those who've benefitted from them will tell others about it. No bragging or bullshit necessary.
Click to expand...
(y)
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
xtsho said:
I'll use simple metrics to rank countries. What country is the most desired by those fleeing whatever they're fleeing?

The United States of America. There's a reason and it has nothing to do with some report from a .biz website.
Click to expand...
Subjective horse manure.

Access to a country has a lot to do with the destination. Thereby your reasoning in this post is hollow. The countries we helped to fuck up in Central and South America aren't headed to the Netherlands or Bhutan, as they can barely make it to the US or Canada
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top