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2016 Outdoor Garden of Eden
- Thread starter FoothillFarming
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caterpillar710
Member
He is organic you don't think that the fact that his water not allowing the correct amount of Ca into the plant to give it enough energy to drive the biology to deliver that organic N and then be able to have the cofactors to turn the N to protein in the plant is a problem? I do.
If he used stuff like ammonium sulfate it may be different
If he used stuff like ammonium sulfate it may be different
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FoothillFarming
Active member
I could see this being the case right?
I need to hit the books, you guys are on another level! (good thing)
Can we go back to EastBays soil recs? I really want to know if I did an ok job, and I want to make sure he gets the advice he needs. Last call?
caterpillar710
Member
I definitely would not be putting 25 of my mix as that, way way too much. Get you some good topsoil , peat moss , and lava rock.. And add yourself to that 1/1/1 MAYBE 5% by volume casting and compost.
All you want that stuff for is the biology.
If you are doing 65s just get some Albion or JHB amino chelate micros ANd make it to the finish using the math from ideal soil to get your amounts. Sulfate micros aren't going to do you any favors
Aminoacids are not affected by the water, in fact, the aminos grab the available calcium and do not let it react with the bicarbonates.
Now, if this diluted woowoo juice is not really amino acids, then you have a point, which in that case, means that the protein being sold is not in aminoacid forms it is ground up protein.
Given the caveat on their label to consult with your organic certification company is a bit worry some. Surely they are worried that some certification agencies as well as whole continents (like Europe) are not going to accept that sulfuric and/or phosphoric acid.
At 2% N, this stuff is a lot of water. Personally I use 12.2% N from amino acids, somewhere around $6 per kg for spray dried powders that are completely soluble. How much does this AEA
sell for? And as the marketing team regathers... I feel the need for more cowbell.
INTERMISSION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ufj5P3W7Jw
caterpillar710
Member
What does that have to do with sea shield ? Nothing. What he did use while he was using it is probably what got him as far as it did.
Foothill, your problems ramped up when you cut the sea shield correct ?
How you choose to pick what to reply to and how you misconstrue stuff to support your points is weak.
Foothill, your problems ramped up when you cut the sea shield correct ?
How you choose to pick what to reply to and how you misconstrue stuff to support your points is weak.
Yeah, let's skip Tiedjens, Albrecht and Reams and go with Astera.... LMAO.
What is wrong with sulfated micros? Give me a break. The woowoo cow has broken out of the paddock.
FoothillFarming
Active member
I have been applying SeaShield (the shrimp and crab right?) weekly all year, currently at 8ml a gal, and I water 10% of soil volume. (approximately 200 gal gets 20 gallons) So my sea shield has been pumping all year, that is why I was skeptical about it supplying enough N.
What I did run out of was the SeaStim (kelp right?) about two weeks ago. Kept enough to finish out the year with foliar sprays, but soil drenches are done. I have a bunch of Rejuvinate left, but my Mg is high so I don't really want to use that.....Your thoughts? My Mg was around 22%!....
FoothillFarming
Active member
What is wrong with sulfated micros? Give me a break. The woowoo cow has broken out of the paddock.
A lot of the AEA micros are sulfates with humics I believe.....?
FoothillFarming
Active member
Thank you for chiming in. I hope EastBay catches this. I totally agree man, those peat and compost mixes are not desirable. Coots mix is about as good as those mixes get IMO. Your approach is more affordable, easier to locate locally, and actually more effective in the long run. Great advice, at least from where I am sitting.
Not saying his mixes will not perform. However if I was starting from zero, your advice makes a lot of sense......just so hard to hear.
SlowNickel, chime in on any of this? If you could build your own soil from scratch on your large farm, in a perfect world, how would you begin?
I would start by analyzing what is available to me. There is nothing wrong using a soil as the base and making it great, however, there are places I would probably do big bags or raised artificial beds if the soil was caliche or some other nasty ass soil.
I would aim for a CEC of 14 or so and balance it, that way you can hold enough Ca.
If you read the Tiedjens book, you will see that one of his peeves when buying land is a good soil to start with. Those are hard to come by, but at least one where the soil and water are manageable.
The extra homework on site selection is important, most especially for water. I can fix any soil, but fixing water is a bitch and is a much bigger variable than folks imagine.
J
Johnny Redthumb
Going back a few pages, I am seeing issues from higher than reported Mg and Na levels. Logan consistently reported below 0.5% Na, and now Spectrum is showing me that I'm much much closer to 2%, and in some places, higher than K%. Plus missing the mark on Mg as much as 10%.
J
Johnny Redthumb
But what if you have alkaline water and carbonates which will tend to build up and raise pH over the course of a month or a season?
I know acid soils will break the ionic bonds and make a shit ton of Ca+ available and also leachable. Seems if you put it in before planting, that any severe excess will certainly leach out while only a few will bond to anions with the first few waterings, which then gives you room to fertilize? I know adding gypsum as a top dress to an acid soil will certainly and temporarily push out K when you are already planted. But granular gypsum with an alkaline water source, even in an acid soil, this will be fairly slow going...
Thanks, thats the kind of info i was looking for
nice to know i can use that little ewc and compost, but then i would need to add alot more amendments, if its balanced and money isnt any issue i would prefer to get my nutes from compost/ewc then amendments..
i do plan on adding some topsoil once i can test some, to jack up the CEC..
i think ill pick up a few pds of JH/albion from mbferts to give a boost to the micros, the AEA micropak has too much sulfer for me atm...
if i need a certain amount of boron would it be better to split the dose of micro/aminos between multiple feedings or should i just hit em with one hard dose and back to water-only/mild feedings, it looks like since the micros are amino chelated that i can mix them in the same tank without dropout...
i understand that micro sulfates wouldnt be recomended now with only a month left, they migth lower ph ever more (6.0 currently) and raise Sulfer to even more toxic levels.. but after i mix up the soil better and leech some sulfer out, i plan on adding micro sulfates to ammend to proper levels... the albion/JH micros are more of a bandaid for liquid feedings right? or can they be used to ammend the soil as well... seems like that would be costly.. would they just flow out of the solution and not connect to available CEC sites?
hope that makes sense, i can reword if it makes it easier..
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J
Johnny Redthumb
What is too much sulfur? Everything is relative. Micro sulfates won't add much S in the amounts you use em. And in pots as small as 65gals, you should be able to make at least some change, wouldn't hurt to use em, they are dirt cheap. Albion stuff works great too.
caterpillar710
Member
Sulfates are super cheap and it ain't about the sulfur it's about getting it to the plant right away.
J
Johnny Redthumb
Agreed 100%. You could even give the amino chelates to the root zone and hit it from both sides. Microbes love those aminos. All I was saying is that there is probably no harm to also feeding small doses of the micro sulfates right now. Some MnSO4 to help reduce chances of fungal disease as your buds swell more. It should be fairly available in constant small doses in a 65gal pot.
caterpillar710
Member
That's what I was suggesting , giving the Albion to the roots. Exactly
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