Not sure why, but boron is all over the place at Logan.
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2016 Outdoor Garden of Eden
- Thread starter FoothillFarming
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caterpillar710
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I've never had problems testing with Logan they've always been accurate and they will do an aa8.2 test no problem.
I like to get aa8.2 and m3 that way you can see a good picture of what's going on.
Plantingplants explained to you the difference , your soil doesn't weigh what field soil does it's much lighter , because of that it takes less amendments to get where you want to go. Soil physical weight is a big variable in the calculation.
I really recommend reading asteras book because it explains how to do the mathematics yourself
When I posted the pic of my place with some flooring it killed the thread a little so here's some weed
I like to get aa8.2 and m3 that way you can see a good picture of what's going on.
Plantingplants explained to you the difference , your soil doesn't weigh what field soil does it's much lighter , because of that it takes less amendments to get where you want to go. Soil physical weight is a big variable in the calculation.
I really recommend reading asteras book because it explains how to do the mathematics yourself
When I posted the pic of my place with some flooring it killed the thread a little so here's some weed
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So when will you post your soil analysis with M3 and [email protected]?
Did you use Asteras' book to calculate that 80#'s of gypsum for 3 cubic meters of mix?
Too much guessing in Astera's book. One of the first places you will have trouble using Astera's guesses is boron.
I know many growers that were using Logan and had problems, especially with their boron reading.
The real test of a lab is to send the same sample in a couple of times and look for the variation within the same lab.
caterpillar710
Member
I know you guys have some personal issues but his math is good.
We can agree to disagree.
If you apply 1 ppm of boron for every 1000 of calcium using M3, which is what Astera recommends, you will have boron toxicity on many soils and many crops.
His manganese ceiling used to be 50 ppm due to some stupid article he read about mad cow disease. WTF? You think that is science? LMAO.
He apparently has raised his ceiling on manganese several times in the last couple of years, as his high brix tests are not getting high brix.
One thing is reading a bunch of stuff and sticking it in a book. An other is to be an agronomist, do your testing and be a farmer. Anyone handing out the calcium message will be well received. Unfortunately, this is not just about Calcium.
Please don't try and convince me about Astera. Ask Zimmerman, Solomon and half a dozen others if you would like a second opinion about Astera.
He just copied stuff from Kinsey, Reams, me and others. Anyone that reads these other authors who performed real investigations realizes the value of what Astera writes.
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caterpillar710
Member
Cool man. If you agree to disagree then the rest of your post is moot.
Avenger already explained this all to you.
It's not about any one element it's about the correct balance of them all.
80# for 3 yards comes from doing 40# on 1.5 yards when we were doing the spy rock shuffle and using lots of composted chicken litter and bone meal.
It works and the tests and field results support it.
Avenger already explained this all to you.
It's not about any one element it's about the correct balance of them all.
80# for 3 yards comes from doing 40# on 1.5 yards when we were doing the spy rock shuffle and using lots of composted chicken litter and bone meal.
It works and the tests and field results support it.
I assume you are not going to post your "tests".
As for correct balance, I agree completely. You are preaching to the choir.
Spy rock shuffle? Is that a dance in the moonlight?
Personal issues? Not really. I put all these types that make believe they are something that they are not in the same waste container.
How can anyone that is not knowledgeable read through someone like Astera and sort out what is dangerous, what is real and what is his guessing?
Astera is a fertilizer salesman (or was, he burnt his bridge with Zimmerman) and a plagiarist. That is not anything personal. It shows his motivation.
Motivation is everything.
FoothillFarming
Active member
Hope EastBayGrower comes in and posts his most current tests. Then we should discuss.
Tell me where I got lost on this one. You told me and then acknowledged on this forum that you were adding 80#'s of gypsum per 3 cubic yards. (the same as 40#'s of gypsum in 1.5 yards correct).
You also told me that you didn't use compost this year, that you applied a 4" layer last year. What does the compost and bone meal have to do how much gypsum you applied?
Still dying to hear where that gypsum dosis came from. No way Astera recommended it. Hill might have... Still waiting to see if your soil analysis at a pH 8.2 warranted it. As I am pretty sure you saturated that soil with gypsum to over 90% Ca and that is one of the main reasons why your grow is so impressive.
FoothillFarming
Active member
I liked the flooring....
You help keep me in check, and I don't want to come across like I know any better than lead, Planting Plants, you or slownickel. (or anybody) I have read Astera's book 3 times cover to cover, and I refer to it almost every time I see a soil rec. His numbers are my first reference point.
Lead and I did dry weigh everything, and I thought we did the math correctly. Too much time has passed.
I wish I took more soil tests so I didn't have to guess as to what happened. That is the missing link here IMO.
FoothillFarming
Active member
No idea where the dosis came either, but I imagine it takes some serious growing skills to pull that off. You must keep an eye on your other Cations because they must swing super fast.
Like what you told me on the phone about CEC. Really high CEC is like a semi truck loaded up, hard to make quick turns and adjustments. Same applies kind of right?
CEC is the CEC. Calcium sulfate will not add to the CEC. Calcium carbonate will. What calcium sulfate will do is push off other elements, like Na, K and Mg. The CEC comes from carbon (organic material) and clay components (Al, etc.). Loading up with gypsum is only going to push everything else off the CEC and load it up with Ca. Making space to fertilize.
Many moons back, I worked in Petrolina, Brasil, more than 10 years of consulting there. The CEC was 3 to 5. Little rocks, pebbles and course sand. Basically hydroponics, where one had to dial it in constantly and add organic material in quantities.
All of our best yields in that environment came from above 80% Ca in the base distribution once we added 15 tons/acre of compost or washed manure with calcium carbonate and gypsum, never got that CEC over 8, ever. Not only were the yields good, but the quality was excellent. They had grapes too, nearly 400 ha. Only 220 ha of mangoes.
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Calcium as a stand alone? How funny.
caterpillar710
Member
Man, I asked you to share stuff with me like your supposed super kelp which I had to hunt down and find myself only to find out it's not so super.
plantingplants
Active member
It's getting tense in here. Foothill, more pictures, quick.
I guess I just stated the obvious then. I'm figuring stuff out I'd already know if I just started reading lol. Gonna read More Food From Soil Science
I guess I just stated the obvious then. I'm figuring stuff out I'd already know if I just started reading lol. Gonna read More Food From Soil Science
caterpillar710
Member
FoothillFarming
Active member
I personally don't care how ya got there, that plant is b-e-a utiful. Now how can I replicate that, lol.
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