caterpillar710
Member
You don't need a meter , you can use drops or strips.
Spectrum Extra does eat sodium as well.
I would apply a whole bunch of that, it's very cheap too. I would 3X the acre rate and do a 1:4000 rate of pepzyme (1m per gallon)
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2016 Outdoor Garden of Eden
- Thread starter FoothillFarming
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You don't need a meter , you can use drops or strips.
Spectrum Extra does eat sodium as well.
I would apply a whole bunch of that, it's very cheap too. I would 3X the acre rate and do a 1:4000 rate of pepzyme (1m per gallon)
caterpillar710
Member
These are 4' deep below ground. I let nature do the digging for me with oilseed radish when I start a. New garden. They've grown to be 2' above grade as well. 8' wide now after working them for 5 years.
This is year 5 soil BTW.
Strain is Maximus from South Fork Seeds
according to AlkCalc it should take about 0.64 mL of ~35% sulfuric acid(battery electrolyte) per gallon to drop your water to 6.2pH (167ppm HCO3) or 1.2 mL per gallon to drop it to 5.8pH (88ppm HCO3). This adds 25 ppm Sulfur or 45 ppm sulfur respectively.
If you used N-Phuric 15/49 it would take 0.4 mL per gallon to get to 6.4pH and 0.75 mL to get to 5.8pH. This adds the same ppm of sulfur but also adds 23 ppm NH4 or 45 ppm NH4 for the respective target pH(6.2 and 5.8)
I think your water looks pretty good, I doubt the sodium level will cause you any concern.
If you used N-Phuric 15/49 it would take 0.4 mL per gallon to get to 6.4pH and 0.75 mL to get to 5.8pH. This adds the same ppm of sulfur but also adds 23 ppm NH4 or 45 ppm NH4 for the respective target pH(6.2 and 5.8)
I think your water looks pretty good, I doubt the sodium level will cause you any concern.
Gentleman, drum roll please.....
Go the spectrum page and down load their water interpretation guide and go directly to bicarbonates.
Read the levels that are problematic. Then look at Footsie analysis from Logan.
Gotta go to bed. Wed-Fri are farmnnnn days.
These recs for the Mn, Cu and K was at a minimum 3 times if not more, for at least three consecutive weeks.
Bicarbonates
Bicarbonates
Footsie,
Your water has 4.4 me/l of bicarbonates. At 2 me/l one has problems at 3 me/l, you're not going to be happy.
What do you do then you say? Care to guess?
What do bicarbonates do you say?
When bicarbonates grow up, they all want to grow up to be carbonates. Calcium carbonates. The first reaction between the water and soil will be to suck up all your available calcium so as to make calcium carbonate, what ever is left in a non carbonate form is what the plants try to pick up.
Yep. Now you have a huge demand for even more calcium. Easiest thing to do? Give the soil more calcium!
I know a lot of people will go to sulfuric or other acids. But if you believe in biology, well, that is not a real solution.
Bicarbonates
Footsie,
Your water has 4.4 me/l of bicarbonates. At 2 me/l one has problems at 3 me/l, you're not going to be happy.
What do you do then you say? Care to guess?
What do bicarbonates do you say?
When bicarbonates grow up, they all want to grow up to be carbonates. Calcium carbonates. The first reaction between the water and soil will be to suck up all your available calcium so as to make calcium carbonate, what ever is left in a non carbonate form is what the plants try to pick up.
Yep. Now you have a huge demand for even more calcium. Easiest thing to do? Give the soil more calcium!
I know a lot of people will go to sulfuric or other acids. But if you believe in biology, well, that is not a real solution.
plantingplants
Active member
Nickel, what does sulfuric acid do to soil biology? I used to lower pH with it.
Also, how does fertigating chemical salts affect soil testing? Should we irrigate with plain water and then take samples?
Also, how does fertigating chemical salts affect soil testing? Should we irrigate with plain water and then take samples?
Mr Chocolate
Member
Nice! How many lines you working with per row? 10?
I missed how high(94 ppm) the Chloride was. That is alarming.
If you use sulfuric acid to neutralize the alkalinity(bicarbonate) in the water before you apply it, then it is just like applying gypsum.
Ca(HCO3)2 + H2SO4 = 2 H2O + 2 CO2 + CaSO4
calcium bicarbonate in solution + sulfuric acid = water and carbon dioxide gas and gypsum
If you use sulfuric acid to neutralize the alkalinity(bicarbonate) in the water before you apply it, then it is just like applying gypsum.
Ca(HCO3)2 + H2SO4 = 2 H2O + 2 CO2 + CaSO4
calcium bicarbonate in solution + sulfuric acid = water and carbon dioxide gas and gypsum
Avenger,
Acidification is definitely a solution.
It is however, quite a nasty chore to set up and maintain.
Here in Peru, folks start that route, then give up.
Gypsum was easier.
Acidification is definitely a solution.
It is however, quite a nasty chore to set up and maintain.
Here in Peru, folks start that route, then give up.
Gypsum was easier.
but just applying gypsum to the soil does not address the root of the problem, it is addressing the symptom not the cause
assuming the bicarbonate is coming from and being applied by the irrigation water
http://www.verdegaalbrothers.com/ph_meters/bicarbonate_in_soil.pdf
assuming the bicarbonate is coming from and being applied by the irrigation water
http://www.verdegaalbrothers.com/ph_meters/bicarbonate_in_soil.pdf
Avenger,
Haven't seen that propaganda in many moons.
Organic material and lots of biological activity will munch the bicarbonates.
I have been through this many many times here in Peru, on very large farms. The result is always the same. They always return to gypsum.
And right now, not sure Footsy will opt for experimentation knowing that gypsum can solve the problem quickly.
Haven't seen that propaganda in many moons.
Organic material and lots of biological activity will munch the bicarbonates.
I have been through this many many times here in Peru, on very large farms. The result is always the same. They always return to gypsum.
And right now, not sure Footsy will opt for experimentation knowing that gypsum can solve the problem quickly.
FoothillFarming
Active member
What about water filtration? Fat boy water filter or something?
caterpillar710
Member
It'll be more expensive than the N-pHuric or 35% sulfuric acid and with your water you'll probable scale up your filters
FoothillFarming
Active member
But I can buy a filter and install it today. I only need it to work for 2 more months.......
Terrible idea?
Terrible idea?
caterpillar710
Member
You could also buy 35% sulfuric acid today as well
Here's why I'm recommending the acid
1. With a measured amount you'll get the same buffering and crashing of bicarbonates every time for the rest of the grow
2. It's extremely cheap. You'll spend much less on sulfuric acid than you will water and replacement filters.
3. As the filter gets scaled up by your bicarbonates the effective filtration will go down an amount we can't account for
4. It's cheap
5. It'll make gypsum in your water for you by reacting calcium bicarbonate with sulfuric acid
Here's why I'm recommending the acid
1. With a measured amount you'll get the same buffering and crashing of bicarbonates every time for the rest of the grow
2. It's extremely cheap. You'll spend much less on sulfuric acid than you will water and replacement filters.
3. As the filter gets scaled up by your bicarbonates the effective filtration will go down an amount we can't account for
4. It's cheap
5. It'll make gypsum in your water for you by reacting calcium bicarbonate with sulfuric acid
FoothillFarming
Active member
After a couple google searches, I can't find it locally.....I will keep trying.
So my questions are.....
how do I measure my levels?
How do I calculate what's needed?
When watering, I have 3000 gallon tank, I then start using water and new water fills the tank....what happens to the treated water now?
This is why I am thinking a filter before my storage tank might be easier for this season. More expensive yes.
So my questions are.....
how do I measure my levels?
How do I calculate what's needed?
When watering, I have 3000 gallon tank, I then start using water and new water fills the tank....what happens to the treated water now?
This is why I am thinking a filter before my storage tank might be easier for this season. More expensive yes.
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