2016 Outdoor Garden of Eden

[maxmurder]

SlowNickel or anybody for that matter.

I want to bump up the calcium levels on some plants due to SlowNickels paradigm. (or late Albrect) In the past I have always stayed away from liming agents, due to fear of burn. I usually just add oyster shells as a top dress when my AEA gear isn't supplying enough. How would you guys go about adding calcium? I have some Microna, but I have never used this product. Bought it up when LeadSled was still advising, but ended up not using it. This Microna states it is more powerful than normal lime as well.

http://www.gardenpearls.com/products/agricultural/micronatm-calcium-carbonate/

Like I said, in the past I just keep a constant top dress of oyster shells. However I might want something a little quicker acting. Get the Ca levels up before flower sets in.

I already have a game plan, but I can always improve things with help of others.

Edit: never mind, kind of stupid question. I think I will just hit the 400's with .33 lbs and see how it goes. From my calcs, this should be on the very low side of application rates. Feel free to speak up if I am missing something. I want to get this done, then send in more soil tests.

did you get the albion metalosate? it's foliar and i think that with a horiba ca pen you watch it rise in ppm's at least. if you don't have it pm me i bought 5 gallons to save on shipping and using 5 mils per gallon once a week i'll be dead before i break into my second 2.5

 

[slownickel]

Numbers for Ca

Numbers for Ca

Ran some numbers. I come up with 187 grams per sq/mtr of gypsum for every 7 inches of depth you are trying to reach. Assuming a decent quality gypsum.

That calcium product you were using is a fine mesh calcium carbonate and will react very quickly. At your pH I would not use much of this product. I would think about more gypsum than this product.

You need sulfur, P and Mn and a bit of copper.

Is that analysis from Logan? If so, I don't believe their copper numbers, nor iron and manganese.

 

[slownickel]

Albion Ca is one of the two best products on the market. I am pretty sure that the Baicor line is actually better and much cheaper....

With that said, applying calcium foliarly in veg is pretty much worthless. Todd Edwards at Albion himself will tell you the same. (He is the sales manager). It is only for flowering.

The reason is quite simple. The concentrations of calcium in the foliage should be upwards of 5 to 8% in a super producing cannabis plant. Applying calcium at 500 or 600 ppm is nothing. There is 10,000 ppm per 1 percent.

Applying a micro at those same ppms is something completely different as we are trying to get a rise of only 30, 50 or 100 ppms.

Here is a video about the product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ9RHfMCpZ0

Todd is the bald guy. Todds email address at Albion is [email protected]

Tell him Michael Kraidy said hello. We buy a lot of product from him.

 

[LostTribe]

Easy Peasy
http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Gadgets.html

Legal and safe. I have had these go off 6" from a plant leaf and zero damage.

Still going to get some night work in for sure. However if anybody is staking out the place, I feel like there is a good chance the dog will know. Now whether or not I pick up on what the dog is telling me is another story.

So I got camera's, 12g perimeter alarms, dogs, fencing, cross fencing, and means to protect myself and family..... Then why do I still feel exposed? This is why they say cannabis causes paranoia. Next step, use satellite real time heat signature camera's to detect any movement, and have a satellite based missile system read to deploy for any intruders.

It always feels like, somebody's watching me.

I trust they are powder only? Thats Craze!!!!!

Put up some of them fish hook stringers at ankle height between some stakes too and you can double up!

 

[plantingplants]

That's a trip. So why would applying foliar Ca in flower help at all?

Wait, why do calcium sap meters only measure up to 6000 or so ppm if Ca should be at 5-8%?

 

[slownickel]

The flower and "fruit" which in this case is the seed, have to accumulate calcium heavily to feed the seed. Likewise, the micronutrients are needed heavily, especially manganese, zinc, iron and copper amongst the major ones. Those quantities are naturally pulled by translocation from the roots with the stored carbohydrates as well as leaves, stalk, etc.. Everything is dedicated to one thing. Creation of a seed. So at this point, the calcium levels at the seed level and flower level aren't 8% (ideal in the leaves), but is 500 or 600 ppm at critical levels or even less. Thus 200 or 300 ppm per shot is actually a big help! That is why Albion in their talking head video talks about application at flowering and onwards in their discussion of calcium.

Post harvest the USDA demonstrated that their product applied post harvest had results in shelf life extension. It was the only chelate in the testing that actually worked.

I have seen some pretty amazing results with Albion and Baicor Ca applied at flowering in mango and citrus. We use a lot of their products.

 

[HillMizer]

Should I give my girls at day 25 some calcium foliar love?

 

[plantingplants]

slownickel, why are folks using horiba calcium ion sap meters getting measurements from leaves that are less than 6000 ppm? I must be missing something. Is all of the Calcium in the leaf not in ion form?

edit: after some research I see that calcium can be present in other forms- calcium oxalate, for example. So a Ca ion meter wouldn't count that. So I guess tissue analysis is the only way to know what percent Ca you have in your leaf? slownickel, could you point me to a source for that 5-8% number you have. Is it from that pdf you posted elsewhere with the study on the 14 or 15 different soils and drug type cannabis?

 

[FoothillFarming]

NAILED IT!! except you forgot puke hahahahahahah..

Man, my first bulldog was a puker! Ruined the carpets in my rental. Nice catch.

did you get the albion metalosate? it's foliar and i think that with a horiba ca pen you watch it rise in ppm's at least. if you don't have it pm me i bought 5 gallons to save on shipping and using 5 mils per gallon once a week i'll be dead before i break into my second 2.5

wow, bro, thanks for the offer. I do have a ton of it, and I have enough for 10 years, lol. Maybe I will just up my ppms with consecutive foliars instead.

I trust they are powder only? Thats Craze!!!!!

Put up some of them fish hook stringers at ankle height between some stakes too and you can double up!

Ahhh yes, the fish hooks and string. Another great security feature. Hard to rip a plant if your legs have fish hooks buried in them. As for the shotgun shells, I just make my own blanks. Cut open the top, pull out the bb's and wadding, seal it back up. Easy, and cheap. In all my years, this has been the best security other than actual humans standing by.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Ran some numbers. I come up with 187 grams per sq/mtr of gypsum for every 7 inches of depth you are trying to reach. Assuming a decent quality gypsum.

That calcium product you were using is a fine mesh calcium carbonate and will react very quickly. At your pH I would not use much of this product. I would think about more gypsum than this product.

You need sulfur, P and Mn and a bit of copper.

Is that analysis from Logan? If so, I don't believe their copper numbers, nor iron and manganese.

That is pretty much exactly what I came up with. I take it you found my tests? Also, yes, they are Logan. All my studies have been with logan labs, so I am hesitant to use Spectrum. Never learn new things if you don't try.

Albion Ca is one of the two best products on the market. I am pretty sure that the Baicor line is actually better and much cheaper....

With that said, applying calcium foliarly in veg is pretty much worthless. Todd Edwards at Albion himself will tell you the same. (He is the sales manager). It is only for flowering.

The reason is quite simple. The concentrations of calcium in the foliage should be upwards of 5 to 8% in a super producing cannabis plant. Applying calcium at 500 or 600 ppm is nothing. There is 10,000 ppm per 1 percent.

Applying a micro at those same ppms is something completely different as we are trying to get a rise of only 30, 50 or 100 ppms.

Here is a video about the product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ9RHfMCpZ0

Todd is the bald guy. Todds email address at Albion is [email protected]

Tell him Michael Kraidy said hello. We buy a lot of product from him.

So, I am taking in everything you are posting. All great advice. However I need to throw out one thing Albion does to a vegging plant. I am sure you know how the product works, so I wont go there. However, when a quickly vegging canna plant is growing, it will outgrow the transportation in the plant of calcium. So your new tips grow out like they are calcium deficient, all crinkly and wispy. Albion corrects that, at the least during veg.

I also take it you don't think the albion will raise my PPM's a significant amount during veg, so that idea is out.




So I am going to take a step back. Going to take my soil tests, send them in and decide what to do from there. Should have done this two weeks ago, kicking myself.

I am also going to up my Albion rates, as I was only using 1.5 grams per gallon of foliar spray. Thinking I will double that, and maybe spray twice a week.

Thanks for all the help guys, I got a big day ahead of me. Hope everybody has a great week.

 

[plantingplants]

when a quickly vegging canna plant is growing, it will outgrow the transportation in the plant of calcium.

Is that more than a theory by milkyjoe? Or at least it sounded like he came up with it, but I never saw any studies. Are you familiar with any?

 

[FoothillFarming]

To be 100% honest, I knew of this way before Milky said anything as of late. (might have been him 2-3 years ago, or byf, both great farmers) However when he reminded me, it clicked. Then I watched the Albion video, which explains this theory perfectly. 15 min video, but when you have the time, it's worth the watch.
https://youtu.be/qJ9RHfMCpZ0

As far as plant response, at first it would eliminate the wrinkle leaf right away, within 4-8 hours. As of late, my plants haven't been giving me as quick or a substantial response, so I am going to up my rates. I started at 1g per gallon of foliar. Now I am at 1.5g and I have seen others go three times as much. Tomorrow is my spray day, and my new application will be 3 grams per gallon.

So give credit where credit is due, Milky reps that product for good reason.

 

[plantingplants]

Cool yea I wasn't sure. Thanks for the video. Mostly I'm curious if there are studies behind that. They don't link any sources. Do you have photos of the Ca deficient wrinkled leaf?

 

[slownickel]

When using nitrates or any synthetic nitrogen, it is very easy to get new growth without adequate calcium especially if there is a major lack of roots. Calcium is a very slow boat and takes a while to catch up.

This is only one of the reasons what it is necessary to have your calcium dialed in early PRIOR to planting, well mixed in with the organic material and available for the first root that comes by.

This is a rule for all crops, not just cannabis and is a very simple and basic concept in agronomy. Glad some folks are using some science here...

 

[plantingplants]

This is a rule for all crops, not just cannabis and is a very simple and basic concept in agronomy. Glad some folks are using some science here...

I'm so curious as to why so many cannabis growing resources don't teach/use these basic agronomic concepts. I'm sure there is plenty to be learned from current cannabis growing resources but no one has ever recommended a basic agronomy book to me and it was only recently that I realized there are a lot of things to be learned from people who study growing crops. Seems simple but it sort of feels like Cannabis is separate until you realize it's not. I'm going to get reading. Thanks guys.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Cool yea I wasn't sure. Thanks for the video. Mostly I'm curious if there are studies behind that. They don't link any sources. Do you have photos of the Ca deficient wrinkled leaf?

I did notice this going on pretty bad on one of my plants. I will snap a pic if I remember before I spray in the AM. Then I will take another picture 24 hours later. Works great.

When using nitrates or any synthetic nitrogen, it is very easy to get new growth without adequate calcium especially if there is a major lack of roots. Calcium is a very slow boat and takes a while to catch up.

This is only one of the reasons what it is necessary to have your calcium dialed in early PRIOR to planting, well mixed in with the organic material and available for the first root that comes by.

This is a rule for all crops, not just cannabis and is a very simple and basic concept in agronomy. Glad some folks are using some science here...

Yea, I tried before the crop went in. This is a brand new soil mix, and the math showed around 12 pounds Ca per yard once I tested my base mix to achieve 68%. I ended up putting in 16 pounds, as the oyster shells were not reading right away in the tests. I since have taken another test, where I threw in some gypsum, and that showed up right away.

So long story short, I need another test to see where I stand. Working on it, had some drama today. Neighbors need some work done as well, so my plate is full.

 

[FoothillFarming]

So this is a constant battle for me. I am not sure my Ca levels are now, or just not able to keep up with my N intake. Everything is nice and green, but the newest of the new growth looks like this. That is when I know they need another round of Albion.

Almost looks like Mosaic virus, or the start of broad mites/russets. I scope every time because I am damaged from my battle with russets. Really did a number on me.

edit: wtf is going on, site is tripping and keeps posting a ALM banner instead of my pictures? WTF?

Double edit: every picture in my folder is now corrupt with this ALM banner? WTF?

 

[FoothillFarming]

Can somebody check my albums and see if this is all you guys see? No idea where this came from?

I can open them on my desk top no problem......I am going to alert a mod.

 

[Oakhills]

They're viewable in your albums FF... Strange

 

[FoothillFarming]

Thanks Oakhills

Well, I guess until this gets straitened out, Plantingplants you will have to view my album. I labeled them Calcium Deficiency. 2 pictures.