Diary 1st time coco auto DTW & salts on FCE3000

[SuperBadGrower]

Hi there

Thanks on the sugestion bro..more than one person told me that even before starting, but what can i do?im a stuborn person, even tho i know im doing wrong, go figure. One thing is certain, im not afraid of the low levels of micros anymore, should have spent the money of them on salts for different stages like someone sugested me before.

I'm the same in terms of stubbornness, that's why some of us end up doing it this way I think. My opnion: brown or orange and MgSO is enough, there is almost nothing you can't do with it. Well, the obvious downside is that you can't separate N from Ca, but since the calnit is so perfect for hydroponics it's hard to say noto it.

Maybe the something else is up that you sre talking is just the ratios between the nutrients and ence something locking K and people raising it?dunno, i havent read as much as i would like it about the subject, plus finding the information and filtering it before learning it takes a bit of time i guess..

Any other sugestion or something regarding the girls or the feed that you may want to add?

Thanks
Peace

Hehe, I'm sure you're the type who likes to read that kind of nerdy information, going head-strong into this method. That's why I mentioned it. This link should get you started. That link leads to the 'related articles' of this specific article (just a random one from my history). Find something you'd like to read about, then click on "Related articles" or "Cited by xx". Most of the work references each other. That should be enough to lead you down a few rabbit holes. (In most articles you can skip to the "Results" section and then "Discussion" or "Conclusion" to save time, as the introdcution and methods are just academic mumbo jumbo)

I think my only tip is to mix the brown/orange in hot or warm water in case you don't already...and keep doing what you do now because they look good

 

[SuperBadGrower]

& For storage I use Meguiars 5 gallon buckets (available in Europe) with silica gel packs taped to lids. Unfortunately the full bag doesn't fit, need to feed plants first, or just pour in the contents.

Oh yeah , speaking of storage. If you dont hate making stock solution now, you will by the time June comes again. Maybe you have acccess to osmosis water, get some gallons of it... get a bunch of liter bottles. You can use some sodium benzoate to store that shit so it doesn't turn bad on you. https://scienceinhydroponics.com/20...ves-how-to-prevent-things-from-going-bad.html

I NEVER mix (dissolve*) anything in reservoir, not even calnit I don't trust any pump to do as good of a job as me shaking it

Oh, another resource came to mind. Do you know the website manicbotanix? Google that and read the Coir articles. also click on Latest canna research.
Cheers

 

[Sampas92]

I'm the same in terms of stubbornness, that's why some of us end up doing it this way I think. My opnion: brown or orange and MgSO is enough, there is almost nothing you can't do with it. Well, the obvious downside is that you can't separate N from Ca, but since the calnit is so perfect for hydroponics it's hard to say noto it.



Hehe, I'm sure you're the type who likes to read that kind of nerdy information, going head-strong into this method. That's why I mentioned it. This link should get you started. That link leads to the 'related articles' of this specific article (just a random one from my history). Find something you'd like to read about, then click on "Related articles" or "Cited by xx". Most of the work references each other. That should be enough to lead you down a few rabbit holes. (In most articles you can skip to the "Results" section and then "Discussion" or "Conclusion" to save time, as the introdcution and methods are just academic mumbo jumbo)

I think my only tip is to mix the brown/orange in hot or warm water in case you don't already...and keep doing what you do now because they look good

Thanks for everything, very kind, also on the compliments of the plants.
And yes i feel those links will give a good headstart, will be some interesting read for sure

I dont mix in warm water, neither have access to osmosis, only tap and distiled, wich by only watering once per day would be too expensive, with multiple feedings even more so is a nono, tap is what i use. Also i mix with a pump, i dont get any precipitation neither something like it, i had problems with cloudy water after just 4 hours of bubbling it, since the "res" only lasts 2.5 days, i dont do it.

I just now understanded that you were refering to the Algamic or root enhancer i used and not salts in other ratios. I didnt used them that much, most of the times was in all my newbiness trying to maintain them somehow while i was figuring things out.

I store the salts in 3 ziplockbags inside of each other, apart the vulnerability to something sharp or whaterver bad luck, they seem to be pretty fresh, since they are in a room with the window open 24/7 365 days per year, they seem good for now

Btw, in all ignorance, why June and osmosis?heat and evaporation?

Again, thanks on the information and opinions, will take a bit but i will get through it all, always welcome here

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

New batch was made and i did it flower oriented, same ca and mg, i got sugested some specific ratios on some things, i wasnt able to achieve it, either im doing something wrong, or there is some limitations of the salts mixes, probably the first, dunno, need to work on it. Either way, today i saw the buds on the Super bigger in the end of the day, so i guess her should be the one liking it most(?)

Targeted Ec by Buddy with my tap was around 1.93 i made it 1.7. All of them are geting the run off at a average of 2.3 since the last bottom watering at 1ec, them being that demanding in water in coco doesnt help, i think i will add Atazyme to see if it helps or if i will need to lower the input for some days, maybe it will help eith the ded dried roots.
Btw, without multiwatering, anyone knows of something that can be mixed to try and make the coco retain the moisture longer?

They are drinking 3.5l once per day to have a proper run off and since the they after this night cicle they suposely should be on the bars or pretty close, i raised the light before turning off to around 35~30cm, i guess they will be at 30~25cm tomorrow, ppfd was higher again in the highest tops tho

Again, im liking how the Skunk is getting on stretch and without some big ass old bruised leafs, and some tiny side branches in the middle that dont grow because no light, better airflow at least, wich even if improved, without the dehuey, it will be a chalenge

Peace

 

[SuperBadGrower]

I dont mix in warm water, neither have access to osmosis, only tap and distiled, wich by only watering once per day would be too expensive, with multiple feedings even more so is a nono, tap is what i use. Also i mix with a pump, i dont get any precipitation neither something like it, i had problems with cloudy water after just 4 hours of bubbling it, since the "res" only lasts 2.5 days, i dont do it.

I just now understanded that you were refering to the Algamic or root enhancer i used and not salts in other ratios. I didnt used them that much, most of the times was in all my newbiness trying to maintain them somehow while i was figuring things out.

I store the salts in 3 ziplockbags inside of each other, apart the vulnerability to something sharp or whaterver bad luck, they seem to be pretty fresh, since they are in a room with the window open 24/7 365 days per year, they seem good for now

Btw, in all ignorance, why June and osmosis?heat and evaporation?

Hehe, just a joke I mean, in one year, you might hate mixing and weighing that stuff. It takes a bit more time than chucking some liquid A&B in a reservoir. You dont wanna be weighing and measuring powders all the time during your grow, such a hassle

So with the salts you can make and store stock solution in 1L bottles or 5L jerry cans for ease of use.

100 grams of powder combined with water, to a volume of exactly 1L. This way, 10 ml of stock adds 1 g of the nutrient. So if you have 100 liter of water,, and want 0.6 grams of Orange per liter, you would add 600 ml of stock solution to that water. Nice and simple

With this method you are mixing 100 grams in 1 L so you get high concentrations. When I mix in normal 'cold' tapwater, kristalon does not dissolve fully. You would not notice it unless you're using a clear bottle. In hot water it dissolves completely.



Heres some related food for thought: imagine if you take just a tiny pinch of fert from the Orange bag. Does that tiny pinch contain EVERYTHING in the correct ratios? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly, yara's mix has great uniformity and is very small-grained, but it doesn't guarantee that you get everything, always. For example, in the mix I see tiny black specks, little black dots, that you could definitely miss out on if you take a small scoop.

On the other hand, if you make stock solutions, you use 100 grams at once. With that amount you're more certain to have scooped up enough of everything.

Hope that makes sense

(edit: All this is not so important at all but in the future you might use some of these tips or habits)

 

[Sampas92]

Hehe, just a joke I mean, in one year, you might hate mixing and weighing that stuff. It takes a bit more time than chucking some liquid A&B in a reservoir. You dont wanna be weighing and measuring powders all the time during your grow, such a hassle

So with the salts you can make and store stock solution in 1L bottles or 5L jerry cans for ease of use.

100 grams of powder combined with water, to a volume of exactly 1L. This way, 10 ml of stock adds 1 g of the nutrient. So if you have 100 liter of water,, and want 0.6 grams of Orange per liter, you would add 600 ml of stock solution to that water. Nice and simple

With this method you are mixing 100 grams in 1 L so you get high concentrations. When I mix in normal 'cold' tapwater, kristalon does not dissolve fully. You would not notice it unless you're using a clear bottle. In hot water it dissolves completely.



Heres some related food for thought: imagine if you take just a tiny pinch of fert from the Orange bag. Does that tiny pinch contain EVERYTHING in the correct ratios? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly, yara's mix has great uniformity and is very small-grained, but it doesn't guarantee that you get everything, always. For example, in the mix I see tiny black specks, little black dots, that you could definitely miss out on if you take a small scoop.

On the other hand, if you make stock solutions, you use 100 grams at once. With that amount you're more certain to have scooped up enough of everything.

Hope that makes sense

(edit: All this is not so important at all but in the future you might use some of these tips or habits)

Thanks bro
Everything makes perfect sense, i understood perfectly, i had it earlier when someone told me the same

To be honest in the beggining of the grow, using so little water and Hydrobuddy giving always to high concentrations of elements for the ammount i was doing, i ditched the idea of concentrating salts. I even diluted the concentration on Buddy to be workabke, but never went foward
Now that they neesld multiwaterings, if i make it work, im going that way for sure. I mix the salts in the rez and i know something can be off that way, add some margin of error of the calculator and the ec oen and could be a thunderfuckery(?)

Yeah i notice some particles in the Orange bag, never thought of it that way tho, thanks.
I guess you use or have used the Orange or the Brown one? What do you think of the Orange one btw?

Off course is important. To grow proper plants a multitude of aspects need to be in check, seems everything you said is part of it so..plus, its added value content and even tho its not the only place, its one more thread with a bit of value just cause of it so thanks bro and keep going, dont be shy

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

Day 40 is gone
Indeed they ended the day around 30~25cm from the light, at this rate tomorrow they will be at 25~20 again.

The other day i decided to pratice some hardcore stress training to my Skunk and droped her on the floor, no injuries, just a broken corner of the por (they are always covered)

Today i notice this on the Amnesia, is dry but dont deel that old and dunno how or why it happen..i didnt bump the branch or droped her on the ground, i wonder about the plant growing pushin the strings, but i dont think its logical

Peace

 

[exploziv]

That happens sometimes with lignified shoots when you do your training and you tie a branch near the limit of breaking, and then you water it and cells expand so it breaks.

 

[SuperBadGrower]

^cheers mate
I've only used Brown personally, but I think orange can very slightly better suited depending on tap water
For example, let's say some tap water has 50 ppm Ca. Using orange, you could add just a little less calnit for the same N, but slightly lower Ca target (if I'm looking at things correctly, excuse the stoner brain)

if I knew what I know now, I would probably buy Orange, although it is a very small difference. The reason being that K fertilization in cannabis seems to be not as important as thought. I.e., a target level of K = 150 ppm or so should be fine, instead of the luxurious 250-350 ppms many use (myself included).

Anyway, it's all nitpicking . I have done whole runs with supermarket fertilizer in coco! A 7-4-7 liquid, made from mostly Urea nitrogen. $1.50 per 1L of fertilizer, apply at 4-5 ml/L. Stuff is made in Poland, green colored.

To be honest, nothing vegges my plants like that stuff. Everybody says not to use NH4 or Urea, but I have 2 moms that are over 1 year old in solo cups, and that's the only food they ever got. As usual, F the rules

 

[Sampas92]

That happens sometimes with lignified shoots when you do your training and you tie a branch near the limit of breaking, and then you water it and cells expand so it breaks.

Thanks bro, pushing the branches close to the limit while not being lignified would do the same? I ask because when i bend them they werent, even tho they got hard in a matter of days, hell in the day after i could feel a bit harder already..even just bending the stems and let them in the same place i see them getting thicker and harder

I've only used Brown personally, but I think orange can very slightly better suited depending on tap water
For example, let's say some tap water has 50 ppm Ca. Using orange, you could add just a little less calnit for the same N, but slightly lower Ca target (if I'm looking at things correctly, excuse the stoner brain)

I get you. Its funny how some build their feed around water reports when using tap, and others say that the elements in tap doesnt matter, somehow both sides are sucessfull in growing. I guess scientific tests should be done for us to be sure if they werent already, maybe there are so many oposite opinions due to different regions of the globe ence different waters with all the things that influence it, dunno

To be honest, nothing vegges my plants like that stuff. Everybody says not to use NH4 or Urea, but I have 2 moms that are over 1 year old in solo cups, and that's the only food they ever got. As usual, F the rules

Well i guess if more leaf test would be done maybe people would get suprised? Dunno, the different elements seems to also affect the medium and how they absorb them, i think it should be taking in account not only what they want/prefer, or what we think they need. If i remember right in N some forms make the ph go up or down in the medium, not ph in the water, medium itself. In some cases i guess it would be good?
In organics some say its good to have a bit of everything and let them get what they want, why not in coco? I know its different because they drink what we give, but the cec in the pot is also happening and even if we force them to eat something, if it was more avaiability of something else maybe they would take it?
dunno im just rambling my limited newbiness knowledge..

I hope one day to be that good that i can grow with some supermarket food

Thanks, keep it comin

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

Day 41
Im giving them 3.5l day, feeling they should be on 4/4.5l. Fun thing, while i feel weight and moisture in the coco, the rh is stable provided by them, like everything, after the turning point the rh peaks a bit down, they droop the leafs a bit.
Also when i open the tent i can feel pretty good the moisture they release, its amazing this little details, if im pointing them right i guess

Skunk

Amnesia

Super, the most advanced and thickening quite fast

Speed, she gets the same the others. I toped her 2 days ago, i have been sniping things here and there everyday, im playing with her. It is what it is.

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

15 days appart, day before first lst session, im bafled

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

Day 42, they reside at 20~15cm from the light, again

The Skunk is trucking along and i think its going faster than the Amnesia, too close to the walls but i cant do nothing, not even removing the runt to gain space would do anything

The Amnesia main top stretched really nice and i like her a lot

The buds on the Super are bigget day by day and she still stretching

Peace

 

[exploziv]

Don't worry man, it's not so crowded yet!

 

[.............]

Keep applying the pressure homie!

Newb-correspondence.net

 

[Sampas92]

Don't worry man, it's not so crowded yet!

I guess it depends on how you look at things bro, in the right rh yeah probably, but without dehuey i cant controll it, and they push the rh to 70% all day with 1 watering only, plus i dont have the carbon pluged, and with it the rh climbs to 80, lights on, at night is would be even worse, wich me luck

Keep applying the pressure homie!

Newb-correspondence.net

Sup Mr. Dots, sorry but im afraid that i didnt understood what you were meaning with me aplying pressure, on what??

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

See, they might not be that crowded, but for the conditions i provide, i think its too much..i only have 2 clip on fans, and i feel lack of air movement mid cannopy to the floor, the intake do something tho, no dehuey, and if i forgot to leave the room of the tent wide open the rh at night cicle its a party, if i let it climb that much i see them with less growth diference im the next day, if i maintain the conditions along the night i see growth so. I wish i had 4 fans moving air.
I will foliar all of them the last time to see if they get strong enough to battle what might come, lets hope

Im sure the cut was clean, but its growing root lumps somehow?Skunk getting crazy and wants to get out of the tent and look at that mix of coco fibers and dead roots, btw, officially i have the thickest girls i ever had

Peace

 

[.............]

Just encouragement man!

I think you are picking up on all the aspects very well, and when you have the environmental controls in place you can really start applying pressure to push the ladies.

 

[Sampas92]

Just encouragement man!

I think you are picking up on all the aspects very well, and when you have the environmental controls in place you can really start applying pressure to push the ladies.

Thanks Mr. Dots , it feels good, thanks

Regarding the environmental controls, its fucked up, it will take some time to get the dehuey and what not.
For instance if i run the humi, the hoses are so close to the plants that they get wet so now i dont run it, but also the weather is helping a bit, so im running on luck. Btw with raising the plants to accomodate the res's under them, i think i will somehow add the humi there too snd make the mist come from the floor, probably need to up-game my air movement.

Again, thanks Mr. Dots, and if you see or think of something in the plants or whatever, please, blast it

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

End of day 42
The Skunk and the Amnesia are rated to 80 days, the Super 70, the Speed i dont remember but fuck her.
So with hopes and prayers and perhaps alignment of the cosmos, i gave them the last foliar until the end hoping they will fight off mold or pm, Ekisan, Botryprot, Oidioprot and Algamic
Breaked down they got per L
8% free aminos
4.3% Alginic Acid
1% Manitol
N 1.6
P 0.4
K 0.4
Ca 0.2
Mg 0.2 no epsoms added due to incompatibilies
Fe 0.1
Z EDTA 0.01
B 0.009
Mn 0.50
Mn EDTA 2
Each one needed 500ml of spraying each and my forearms got killed

Since i dont give a fuck to the runt, and its starting to rub on the Super, i bent her everywhere i could taking advantage of the stretch, pinch the tops, snip some fans, iv been fucking with her good

Something is not right, being environmental or not.
I mean, i had trichs on the leafs in veg. Not bulbous trichs probably but they were there, being genetics, stress, healthyness or whatever they were there and i would expect them to start resin up faster than this, so something is not right. I see some but...

Peace