Diary 1st time coco auto DTW & salts on FCE3000

[Sampas92]

Just lighter at the tops, where it's high ppfd
You can see the right pieces of the puzzle. Better than I have. I was unsure about the N, and I was probably wrong. It's likely the high light. Are they quite high in red? most are. Without the red peak this is less likely. Though perfectly possible. I have fell into the common misconception of a nutrient deficiency, where it's actually high light destroying the green pigments. Which is not as serious as it sounds.
Forget the calnit. It might even be bad, if the red petioles and lifted serrations are actually mild Mg signs. If it were low Mg and your source is epsom, you might also have low sulphur. It's not very likely, but sulphur can give an overall yellowing. I'm just thinking out loud here though. I have not seen them top to bottom.

High light causing mild bleaching seem quite likely. As otherwise, nothing stands out to me as worth addressing. I'm not sure how this will tie in with mold issues.

Since i bumped everything except ca and mg they "got rid" of the purple and i got something like this, i dont think that is low S?


In all my newbiness i know that if we got all the parameters right to high ppfd they can grow fine even in seedlings, may not be worth but scientifically proven.

I dunno, it could be the slightly lower rh, or me droping the ec by .3/.2 points to counter act the high EC at run off and also a presumably bit of K toxicity, if because of ratios or the ammount of it per se, i dunno.

Regarding calnit, since calcium is supposedly needed for high mass growing stages, and since the worst ones are the ones still stretching a bit i think they might need it, and even if they dont get the taller tops higher, i see the side branches growing good and reaching light. I saw this hapening with cobs where the intensity is high and when the tops get to that intensity they fade, stop growing, side branches begin to grow ence bushy plants under leds. I got the same with SILS, even tho weak and not comparable to cobs or led bars, get them at 2/3cm and its the same thing.

I think i will try to bump ca a bit to see if it helps, Mg i can see them needing it with the white tips, if its a sign of it wich i also, dunno.

Again in all my newbiness i point my finger to high ec at run off (2+) giving them somekind of lockout maybe by osmotic pressure (or how its called) because of the drying coco, wich dries and kills some roots that may or not be responsible for the newer growth but again, in all my newbiness, wniping lower branches or leafs would get those respective roots "free" to deal with new growth (i guess), or is just the lowet rh.
Dunno, i will make a new batch today with the same feed and add Atazyme to see if the run off lowers a bit, if the run off gets lower and they get better at the same rh its it. If not, i can only hope that someone could know what it is, because i cant increase the rh now, also i switched off the added fsn on the ground to see if the rh is a bit higher and see how they handle, just a few hours before lights out so it wont take long to see if it helped.

Thanks bro and come anytime you want.


Ps: i dont think its the high ppfd, with this bars for example right in the middle i have one top that is getting around 850 and does the same clawing/droopyness/curving(whatever) others too, i can understand that overall can be too much for them all, but again at some point fuether down in them the leafs look normal, so i still point to lower rh combined with everything else.
Peace

 

[Sampas92]

For instance, at middle of the day and the coco getting dryier and dryier,
At this very moment, temps at 24.5 rh at 62%
This top from the Skunk, one of the affected, is getting 1300ppfd

This one from the Amnesia, the other one affected is getting the same ppfd

This one from the Amnesia too is getting 850, both of these girls are in the end of stretching, so still producing mass, not that much but still are

This one from the Super, in full flower is getting 1300ppfd, this one is not affected

All have in common is the high runoff, dry coco and lower rh. Flowering plants can support lower RH but i get the concensus that they should be in the right vpd and not that older conception of lower rh at flowering to avoid mold etc etc wtc the whole shebang, even tho they might have their preferences.
Thinking on it, i dont see them sweating and raising the rh like i feel before just by oppening the tent and sensing the humidity in my nose, so it tells me the osmotic pressure is off due to the high runoff ec, and maybe the rh plays a role since they sweat less, they raise it less but the little they sweat may be enough for them to look normal at the middle of them and bottom.

I dont think my line of thought is right, anyone have any opinions?

Peace

 

[Ca++]

Droop is nearly always water related. Too much or too little. While raised serrations is a water retention technique.

Water loss seems quite common with LED. The logical explanation includes the higher transpiration that comes with higher photosynthesis rates. Accompanied with lower leaf temps that such light levels would usually bring. IR has not (to my knowledge) been linked to stomata size. However heat will close them. Without that heat, and with the fans, water losses will be high. I think we pretty much have that picture here. With visible droop and active water retention measures.

If the bottom is fine, then it's not under watering. The bottom leaves are the first to drop if under watering. We must be looking at water loss. I'm thinking fans.

 

[Sampas92]

Droop is nearly always water related. Too much or too little. While raised serrations is a water retention technique.

Water loss seems quite common with LED. The logical explanation includes the higher transpiration that comes with higher photosynthesis rates. Accompanied with lower leaf temps that such light levels would usually bring. IR has not (to my knowledge) been linked to stomata size. However heat will close them. Without that heat, and with the fans, water losses will be high. I think we pretty much have that picture here. With visible droop and active water retention measures.

If the bottom is fine, then it's not under watering. The bottom leaves are the first to drop if under watering. We must be looking at water loss. I'm thinking fans.

But how could it happen now if they are getting the same ppfd and air movement since almost the beggining of stretch?

Well the fans are directed at them but if i make it more confortable for them i loose airflow on the bottom part.

Plus i think this happened because i did shit with the nutrients.
I saw the higher run off, so i lowered the ec and stupidily i added mgso to raise the ec again (stupid stoner newb things) and they got like that day after when the coco dried up.

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

So after 3 hours of sleep last night, first job early morning and getting out of the second at midnight i came home tired and just wanted to batch the nutrients, feed them and go to sleep to do it all over again tomorrow but i almost got an heart aTtack.
Why? Im dependent of Hydrobuddy, and the pc fucked up SO NO BUDDY, NO WATER, DEATH.
I tried to do it on paper and calculate things, but i was too tired and stressed out for it.
Then i remember, i have the apps that do the same thing on the smartphone plus i have the recipe of the different stages on pics so i did it all over again and did the new batch.

Again they are like this because i did shit.
Im nobody in this game, and please i dont want to be the smartass newb that thinks that know it all but, they are getting the same ammount of light and air movement by some time now, so what changed?
They got bigger, more mass more demanding.
I raised the ec a notch and i see them good.
As time went by i started thinking, i should lower ca a bit since in flower they shouldnt need the same ammount, and since i read they usually like a bit more of mg, i lowered the ca from 110 to 100, maintained mg at the same ammount, so the ratio was differente, plus i droped the ec because of the build up and since i saw them worse in all my stupidity i added mgso to the mix, so an even higher mg ammount and a wackyer ratio i suppose. The cherish on top of the cake is them getting like this and the run off still high.

So today i closed the room, the rh was higher, temps too, they were good at this parameters before but when i checked them they were already drooping, so i guess not the RH neither the temp.

I went and did the feed like i was doing before doing shit, like this, ec of the mix is again at 1.8 instead of 1.6

Run off i 2~2.2 on everyone, starting at 2.5 and lowering as the run off reaches 30%. I added Atazyme and will do it everyday from now on to see if it does anything in the next 2/3 days to the run off, maintaining the 1.8 input ec, i will wait and hope for them.

Thing is they still growing, slower, but the Super is getting thicker. The , Amnesia i still stretching a bit, and the Skunk is more on the start of thickening things. Amazing how resilient they are to my Stress management protocol
Some pics of the disgrace

But yeah i can see the fans doing harm, some higher tops have their leafs a bit wacky, the highest one in the Super is not thickening almost, but i cant do anything with it i think, being fans, if its light i can raise it, but again, they are getting this intensity by some time now.
Long story short, i fucked up lol, nothing new

I think one doing a bit of flush to lower run off levels to see how they react, but i want to see what the Atazyme will do, if it will do anything at all to it.
Peace

 

[Sampas92]

Iv been having some big personal problems, battling some personal demons and iv been lazy on pics but iv been taking care of them, real life and real problems are way more important even if we just realize our mistakes too late.

I let for you guys to know how many days they are..
Updates? No automated watering yet like you all can imagine but...

since they are getting Atazyme every feed im seeing new root growth again, the run off dropped a bit but they needed a higher input ec and now are getting 1.9 and i feel i could go higher and they would like it because as i increase it they resin up more so its correlated.

The Skunk stoped stretching and is filling, the Super is filling nicelly but could be better, but that bitch of the Amnesia is still stretching a bit and not filling properly yet and because of that majestic plant of 90cm height i needed to raise the light because, you know that when they pass the lights its not good, so organized the tent to accomodate the family the best i could. They seem healthy because they are loosing a bit of leafs but just in the middle of all of that bushiness, i think because lack of light, im bafled to be honest because they dry up and i dont see anything bad, for now at least, better airflow i guess

The Amnesia is the tallest, the Skunk the widest but overal the Amnesia is a monster of a plant, elegant, hungry for light and food, the Skunk too, they are XXL indeed, in pics they may not look much, but at naked eyes, seeing them and feeling that they could be almost wall to wall, on my first try with coco and salts...i dunno what to say..for you guys all of this and them may not be that much but for me..god..

Btw i binned the runt, she was under them all, i couldnt make it work anymore and to do more harm than good to the plant and the whole grow i took the advantage to see the roots and even if i didnt pic them, believe, cristall white, fully rooted, beautifull, only missing more moisture that i cant make it happen for now but it is what it is.

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

Peace

 

[Ca++]

Damn. I'm really sorry to see this. My slow connection times out after an image or two, but one is bad enough

Can you see the roots anywhere?

There's at least some similarity to some of @PCBuds images. Where he stands a plant in water and feeds it a lot. A comparison might offer some clues.
Some of the fast elongation reminds me of very wet systems with raised EC (in years gone by)
At times I have noted a bit of excess runoff, lowering root EC, can cause some limp days. I think it could be an osmotic thing. I have not seen other people talk about it.

over watering plants droop at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Do click the link won't you

 

[.............]

Woot high ppfd club. Im running it up now on a few varieties, strain/pheno selection is a big factor on how well a plant responds. And from day one too, well almost, maybe a day or two @700ppfd because LED is vicious.


Way too high ppfd on a few, but let's call this neglecting 'data gathering' 15-1600ppfd most likely, probably higher the boards weren't an inch away (raised them b4 I took this pic. This is P1 aka sour giesel and she can really hang in high PAR.. I have most likely lost a little yield on this for the days it has spent as such high PAR levels.. but its good to know the limits.

This is Headbanger @7 days flo. Once again the leds were very close.. Headbanger is pretty finicky.. but even so this is too much for a plant in wk1.
The scientific data pertaining to the upper limits or optimum levels for cannabis is handy but I'm not sure if they were growing weed to smoke at the end.

Hang tough and keep puffing. The plant is the way.

Damn. I'm really sorry to see this. My slow connection times out after an image or two, but one is bad enough

Can you see the roots anywhere?

There's at least some similarity to some of @PCBuds images. Where he stands a plant in water and feeds it a lot. A comparison might offer some clues.
Some of the fast elongation reminds me of very wet systems with raised EC (in years gone by)
At times I have noted a bit of excess runoff, lowering root EC, can cause some limp days. I think it could be an osmotic thing. I have not seen other people talk about it.

over watering plants droop at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Do click the link won't you

Last week I noticed.. after a couple reduced EC high volume waterings, probably 700ppm @ around wk3. Plants became pale and leaf size reduced.

 

[PCBuds]

There's at least some similarity to some of @PCBuds images. Where he stands a plant in water and feeds it a lot. A comparison might offer some clues.

@Sampas92
Damn, I wasn't getting alerts again about posts on your thread.
I thought that you were done growing for a while?
I'm posting again, so hopefully I start getting alerts?

I've had almost all of my plants completely flake out on me, but my current closet plant and my window plant have not done it this time.

Both of my indoor plants are always sitting in water. They never run dry.

I really don't know why they didn't flake out this time, other than I turned my lights up slowly and gradually this time.

It was you that told me that when I push my plants hard, that I need to keep my other parameters pushed hard as well so I'm running them pretty rich at 2.7 mS (1400 ppm)
I didn't have my closet plant lose her fan leaves this time but I did remove a bunch of them.

Both my indoor plants are doing great, and I'm cutting my closet plant today.

It was @............. that informed me that you are supposed to nute the media right from the start, so I did that this time.
I had always waited until the plant had two full sets of leaves before nuting them, but this time I started much sooner, and my plants had a much better start.


My only guess is that your plants are reacting to sudden changes.
I think that you need to use about twice as much LITFA and you'll be fine.

Your plants did bounce back and look good now.
It's a good thing I'm not growing orchids. I would have killed them all. Cannabis is way more forgiving.

 

[Sampas92]

Damn. I'm really sorry to see this. My slow connection times out after an image or two, but one is bad enough

Can you see the roots anywhere?

There's at least some similarity to some of @PCBuds images. Where he stands a plant in water and feeds it a lot. A comparison might offer some clues.
Some of the fast elongation reminds me of very wet systems with raised EC (in years gone by)
At times I have noted a bit of excess runoff, lowering root EC, can cause some limp days. I think it could be an osmotic thing. I have not seen other people talk about it.

over watering plants droop at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Do click the link won't you

Yes i can, again, like i said, after adding Atazyme every feed they are gettinf better even tho i cant lower the run off ec due to how hard the coco dries at the end of the day even getting 30% water runoff.
They need a flush, a bit like when stacking, that or multi feed.
Btw even tho with just one watering a day, some days ago i left them rest in a bit of run off. But i havent done it anymore, but they are not purpling or flacking out every time, just at the end of the day when the coco dries.

Peace

 

[Sampas92]

Woot high ppfd club. Im running it up now on a few varieties, strain/pheno selection is a big factor on how well a plant responds. And from day one too, well almost, maybe a day or two @700ppfd because LED is vicious.


Way too high ppfd on a few, but let's call this neglecting 'data gathering' 15-1600ppfd most likely, probably higher the boards weren't an inch away (raised them b4 I took this pic. This is P1 aka sour giesel and she can really hang in high PAR.. I have most likely lost a little yield on this for the days it has spent as such high PAR levels.. but its good to know the limits.
View attachment 18726191
View attachment 18726190

This is Headbanger @7 days flo. Once again the leds were very close.. Headbanger is pretty finicky.. but even so this is too much for a plant in wk1.
The scientific data pertaining to the upper limits or optimum levels for cannabis is handy but I'm not sure if they were growing weed to smoke at the end.
View attachment 18726192
View attachment 18726193
View attachment 18726194
Hang tough and keep puffing. The plant is the way.


Last week I noticed.. after a couple reduced EC high volume waterings, probably 700ppm @ around wk3. Plants became pale and leaf size reduced.

Thanks Mr Dots, in my mind the solution would be multifeed to allowing a satble ec and not building up making them able to support the high ppfd, while i had the coco with moisture and until the end of the day, lights at 100% while still veg/starting stretching, they were fine.
I find they got like this when the coco started to dry out fully at the end day and i started to let them rest in the run off to somehow maintain more moisture in the pot along the next day.

Amazingly enough, the higher tops are not purpling, and the pale ones are on 1300ppfd, by what all of you say, they should be frying and way worse but they arent.
High ec in the medium makes them not drink that much, you teach me stacking when you sugested to exploziv i think, they need a big ass flush i guess, because even tho the ec is high they seem to need a higher ec at input because i see improvements when i see it, i think is something related to the osmostic pressure of the roots and the ec of the feed and the 2+ ec of the medium, but Atazyme been doing something because i see new growth of roots, the Skunk is filling, the Amnesia reaching for more light and even the Super, that is way more advanced shouldnt be getting that new growth of roots, is showing them, maybe just recovering what have lost for whatever reason.

Btw mr dots, as you know, im a newb, but i cant see how a lower input of food and more water to flush them somehow would be good, they still need the strong feed that you were giving them. Not the high ec in the medium, but in the water?i see it, so i guess we need to aim to the ec they want and flush, and not target an lower ec just because they have it high in the medium, again, im a newb and dont want to be a smart ass because i know im not.

Im hanging bro and thanks but for me the plant is not the way, never was in this last 15 years, ence i quited, im loving to grow, but i hated to smoke and what have done to my life, plant fault or my fault? I dunno but for now, and i think for the rest of my life, i quited, i guess we are all different and what is good for some, is not for me.

Thanks Mr. Dots.

 

[Sampas92]

@Sampas92
Damn, I wasn't getting alerts again about posts on your thread.
I thought that you were done growing for a while?
I'm posting again, so hopefully I start getting alerts?

I've had almost all of my plants completely flake out on me, but my current closet plant and my window plant have not done it this time.

Both of my indoor plants are always sitting in water. They never run dry.

I really don't know why they didn't flake out this time, other than I turned my lights up slowly and gradually this time.

It was you that told me that when I push my plants hard, that I need to keep my other parameters pushed hard as well so I'm running them pretty rich at 2.7 mS (1400 ppm)
I didn't have my closet plant lose her fan leaves this time but I did remove a bunch of them.

Both my indoor plants are doing great, and I'm cutting my closet plant today.

It was @............. that informed me that you are supposed to nute the media right from the start, so I did that this time.
I had always waited until the plant had two full sets of leaves before nuting them, but this time I started much sooner, and my plants had a much better start.


My only guess is that your plants are reacting to sudden changes.
I think that you need to use about twice as much LITFA and you'll be fine.

Your plants did bounce back and look good now.
It's a good thing I'm not growing orchids. I would have killed them all. Cannabis is way more forgiving.


View attachment 18726316 View attachment 18726317

You are almost right buds, i am quiting growing after this grow.
I own it to everyone that helped me and, even tho i feel that weed also kinda ruined my life like any other addiction, i love to grow, but i only started it to smoke even more and more and more, more quality and spending less, so after this one i dont see any reason to still do it.

Bro everyone was telling you since the beggining to do things slowly everyday and noy everything from one dsy to the other.
Of course they can handle that high ec, you give her high light everywhere so you need to support it, you know that is all just a balance of everything, remember Bugbee?

Btw you closet plant, as always, looks majestic, still think you should get a bit bigger space and grow the same way, it would be a show off to see, a good one.

You can lifta when doing things right, if not lifta will not do anything.

Peace

 

[JustGrowing420]

So, you don't smoke/vape or have I understood wrong?
Though if you feel it holds you back that's the right thing to do.

 

[exploziv]

Quitters!

 

[Sampas92]

The proble

So, you don't smoke/vape or have I understood wrong?
Though if you feel it holds you back that's the right thing to do.

Yeah brother, nothing.
Addiction runs in the family by generations, we are like the same, im like my mom, she is like her father and so on so i breaked the cicle or im trying too.
I dunno if it was the environment where i grew up, or the smoke or all together that helped me to kinda ruined my life and lost everything sacred in my life, but i need to try from somewhere.
If we all just smoke and smoke and smoke and dont feel to do anything else and make it our priority above everything else, what are we doing? Not getting the real pleasure and hapiness in life thats for sure.
Thanks bro

 

[Sampas92]

Brother i remember you saying the other day

Quitters!

In your thread that you were occupied with real life, real and truly happiness, i think this will make you understand why i quited.

 

[exploziv]

I can give you an adress to send it, to make sure the weed gets smoked.

 

[exploziv]

Brother i remember you saying the other day
In your thread that you were occupied with real life, real and truly happiness, i think this will make you understand why i quited.

Ah, it was BS, I just puffed too much!
J/K ofc man I understand! Its good u can have weed and not smoke it. I don't know anyone that can do that.

 

[Sampas92]

See guys, they are not that bad neither flacking down at the middle of the day, the salts as the coco dries just burn the roots, adding them resting in the run off before and even more salts
burned them.

Not red petiole at 1300 ppfd tho

Peace