12/12 From Seed: A Different Way To Grow

[Hal]

Buzzed...

One of the things about growing this way is that you use a lot of seeds. Anyone wanting to grow a large number of plants might want to first grow a seed crop, which would then give you a supply of seeds for a long time.

If you have feminized seeds, this way might not be the best for you. You probably spent a lot of money on those seeds, and there is no way for you to get a seed crop, because there aren't any males. Maybe, with this bunch of seeds that you currently have, it would make more sense to grow them out and pick a good mom or two.

Atmoshphere grows a large number of plants, weeds out the males when they show, and then grows the females a bit longer to find the ones that seem to be growing at similar rates (keeps an even canopy), and then weeds out the females that aren't similar in height.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Guest]

grams/watt also tells you nothing, because you can veg a plant forever and easily get one gram per watt.

let's say for example you get about 450 grams from a 600w in 3 months with your 12/12 from seed sog. that's 0.75 grams per watt but it's 150 grams per watt per month.
someone else gets 600 grams from a 600w with single tree, after 5 months. that's 1 gram per watt but only 120 g/w/m.

which grower is yielding more?

 

[motaco]

RUST is revival of the ultimate sativa thread. its the same thread first page. its the second post. under growth techniques

and SATghost is right the gpw doesn't mean anything until its plugged into the GE calculator. and even then you can't expect a sativa to fit well into the GE caluculator unless its done from clone and force flowered into the expected harvest window of about 100 days.

but thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a good percentage of plants don't respond well to this method. I've seen it myself. and aside from fitting lanky sativas into grow rooms, or finding a mom, or only have a small time frame window to grow than I don't reccomend it. after alot of trial and error.

 

[Guest]

i believe you can use indicas if you tweak the plant spacings, and also light intensity and spectrum after transplant. then again without the numbers you can only guess.

 

[Hal]

if you knew better you'd know I already have a section dedicated to 12/12 from seed in my ultimate sativa thread.

Is this the "section dedicated to 12/12 from seed" that you are talking about?:

"the short way is more dangerous but it fits the bill anyway because alot of you don't have veg space to be taking all these clones and waiting to see which ones are good or not. The only real difference is that you only wait 3 days for seedlings to harden up before you flower. don't keep the light that close at first, until they want you too. a cycle should finish anywhere between 75-120 days total from seed. plants will identify themselves sexually after only two weeks. when you select the one you like if you didn't have space to clone then you can reveg. but revegs don't always work. but luckily sativas are predispositioned to reflower/reveg. anyway you want to identify the plant you want. and weed out the rest w/o wasting the time and light on it."

You call that a dedicated section for this method of growing? All that is is advice on how to find your females faster...you then instruct people to put them back into the vegetative cycle.

Thats not the same thing we're doing at all.

 

[Guest]

well spotted Hal. the other mistake is this:

don't keep the light that close at first, until they want you too

seedlings need as much light as possible right from the start.

 

[keetypoo420]

A old trick I know of for people who can't clone, get a whoe bunch of bagseed and let them grow outside and then throw them in to the flowering cab at the right time

 

[buzzed day]

hello all, thanks for responding.1st i made these feminized seeds myself,2nd per plant does tell me what i need to know each plant being different i know but what about average? i can fit 25 1 gallon tubs under my 400 all feminized but no mixing of strains.if each 1 weighs 7 grams =a little over 8 oz,if around 10 per plant then 250 grams per grow and so on and that is why i was woundering.thanks again for any help and peace

 

[motaco]

Sat ghost put your seedlings close to a 600w if you want and see how long they last. there is a line between plenty of light and too much. seedlings going into flower need a hardening off period or they crisp in die. as ricky says "learned that in grade 7"


but as I said hal, I don't reccomend growing this way so of course I'm not going to write a thread about it and then say, "BTW I don't reccomend growing like this. "

and I stand by that aside from fitting sativas in height restrictions, or identifying a sativa mom in 3 months instead of 5-6 than yes I think you should not grow like this. after having done it with alot of strains. and that is what I'm telling you.

it works for some strains (including some indicas), not for most (including some sativas). your not the fist to try this, and there is a reason its not popular; I just hope you don't fuck up peoples grows with your exxagerated claims.

but do what you want with your thread. just don't call bullshit on me because I've done this much more than you.

later. peace

 

[Hal]

It won't be exact, but if you are just tryin to get a ballpark estimate, the 1 gram per watt is probably the closest you might get. That also depends on you doing everything else right, like nutes and temps and humidity, etc.

You gotta remember that if you feminised these seeds yourself, I'm guessing that you had some of your female plants go hermaphrodite on you and had the nanners pop on you and got your seeds that way...there is a much greater likelihood that you will get hermaphrodite plants from those seeds. So, if you do, don't blame the 12/12 From Seed light regimen for that problem.

 

[motaco]

sorry tried to leave but that is not true either^^^^

it does cause hermis. I've gotten hermis from plants straight from seed that the others when veg'd didn't go herm.

might not cause it, but aids it if you know what I'm saying. it stresses some plants.

sorry gone for real this time.


here is a real deal 12/12 from seed thread. many will end up looking like this. regardless of indoor or outdoor. this is how alot of strains perform under 12/12 from seed. this is the exact situation I'm trying to get you not to steer people into. $1g in seeds pretty much useless.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=27747

 

[Hal]

it works for some strains (including some indicas), not for most (including some sativas). your not the fist to try this, and there is a reason its not popular; I just hope you don't fuck up peoples grows with your exxagerated claims.

but do what you want with your thread. just don't call bullshit on me because I've done this much more than you.

later. peace

Motaco,

It is very clear that you have put a lot of thought into the sativa strains. It is also clear that you, at best, have thrown some other hybrids into the flower cycle from seed while you were busy growing sativas. I don't think you have ever given this method a chance, and you CONSISTENTLY make claims that are not supportable. For instance, the above blanket statement that, "it works for some strains, but not for most." There just is no way you have tried this method on enough commonly grown strains (most growers do not grow sativas indoors) to make that blanket statement. But you have. I never would make a statement like that without having evidence.

You also keep accusing me of exagerating the potential of this method, claim that I am acting like a bigshot, say I'm going to fuck up peoples grows with this thread. You're just slinging mud at me dude. I have been very clear that we don't have the information on the strains yet to know for sure which ones are going to be the best. Thats why I have tried to get a strain report going for this method. But everything I saw back in the thread on OG leads me to believe that this method will work for the majority. I say this because I saw the posts from peoples gardens, saw their photos of the plants. I've never claimed, or acted like, I am the first one to grow this way...I'm just trying to do my part and spreading the word.

I could easily visit your thread and post, "anybody considering growing sativas is crazy, they don't yield well, they take way too long to flower, and the height can't be controlled. I advise anybody who is thinking about growing these plants indoors to not do it...but if you try, don't say I didn't warn you and come bitchin at me." Of course, I am not going to do that, because there is much more to the story than that, but my statement is just as true, maybe more true, than the post you put into this thread.

Lastly, just because you have been growing pot longer than me doesn't necessarily mean you know more than me....someone who has been growing pot with bad cultivation for a long time is just a person who has developed some bad habits. I really don't know enough about how you grow pot, haven't seen your results enough to know whether you are a good grower or not (its so easy to make exclamations on your expertise, happens all the time), but the fact that you have gotten these rotten results so frequently using this method, when others have done just the opposite, is some evidence that you are doing something wrong.

I'll let this thread, and the results that it will be documenting over time, do the talking from here on in. If people start posting that all they get are shit yielding plants, then come on back and give me shit. But until that time, leave this thread alone.

 

[motaco]

you miss the point so much. I have tried this with


off the top of my head: g13 black widow, oaxaca, haze, shiva, afghani, deep chunk, big bud, critical mass, humboldt select, purple chicken, skunk, willi nelson, cherry bomb 2, lavender, romulan, hawaiian sativa and MANY others. maybe you've only done a couple strains, but I've done quite a few.

and I have in fact concluded, not from bad experience, but from a ton of experience, that this isnt a very effective method for growing for I'll say it again MOST weed. I'll spare you the shitty grow reports. 3g plants, 1g plants, 5g plants, occasional ounce plant, .05 gram plant, etc etc.

some do good, MOST don't.

and I've had buds bigger than my calf. how many people do you know that have gotten daywrecker to produce QP plants? when you prove your a better grower than me I'll listen. till then don't call me a bullshitter or insinuate I'm not growing good is the reason this method doesn't work when I tell you my well founded personal experience.

don't forget the way this fight started is I told you my personal experience and your answer was that it was my bad growing capabilities, not the method, it won't cause hermis, and that I needed to quit spreading "bullshit" when you've done it far less than I have. so I ain't slangin mud. I'm slanging your bullshit out my way.

 

[atmosphere]

Sat ghost put your seedlings close to a 600w if you want and see how long they last. there is a line between plenty of light and too much. seedlings going into flower need a hardening off period or they crisp in die. as ricky says "learned that in grade 7"

I disagree
I put my seedlings at 20 inches distance from a 600 watter at day one , no problem . In nature they get the full sun on thier leaves! ! For clones , you are right .


12 days from seed

 

[atmosphere]

I can show you recent grows with Indica dominant strains put on 12/12 right away !!! At first i thought this was not a good plan , i was wrong .

I havend had a strain yet that really failed when started on 12/12 . I know a breeder who has 36 years of experience who sells his 30 strains world wide ,who says "jou can start all of them on 12/12 " It is possible to harvest 6 times a year with this method ,all in one room thats always on 12/12 .

I always mention you need to do a very good job in the first 3 weeks to make this method really succesfull! so for a new-be this could be a problem .

 

[Elephant Man]

I can show you recent grows with Indica dominant strains put on 12/12 right away !!! At first i thought this was not a good plan , i was wrong .

I havend had a strain yet that really failed when started on 12/12 . I know a breeder who has 36 years of experience who sells his 30 strains world wide ,who says "jou can start all of them on 12/12 " It is possible to harvest 6 times a year with this method ,all in one room thats always on 12/12 .

I always mention you need to do a very good job in the first 3 weeks to make this method really succesfull! so for a new-be this could be a problem .

Good news for sure, and I agree completely, this is an advanced growing method. Every day after germination is very important, there can be no 'stunting'. I have no real experience to add yet but it is coming. I really don't concern myself with yield, I focus on quality and having fun and so far happy plants have kept me in surplus...probably a rare attitude, but I only grow for myself so I make alot of seed and mess around. Growing is as much therapy for me as smoking is.

I really don't see much point in discussing whether this is a valuable method of growing, many have shown it is in certain circumstances. As far as Hal wanting to compile a database in this thread, I say go for it and I will input as much as possible.

Atmosphere: I am really interested in your style, I have been messing with soilbeds too...I only have the link to your Dutch journal, do you have one in English? Can you start one here?

 

[atmosphere]

We have just started a new forum that is owned by the man i was talking about here.
I will start a journal of my new grow in there because he pointed me in the right direction and he deserves more credit than i do if it comes to the 12/12 from seed method.
There is stil a lot of dutch language there ,but it will be more and more English . My yournal certainly will be. It is allowed to start English post there.

www.nomercy.nl/forum

 

[Hal]

That will be great atmosphere...can you make sure to provide a link directly to your journal when it gets going? I'm not sure I will be able to find it if I just go to the link you provided above, which is the homepage of the site...all in Dutch.

Thanks dude.

 

[highonthechroni]

Where do we introduce ourselves on the site?

Can you make it so that the 'English' setting also reflects on the Forum names?

 

[muddy waters]

Hal, I gotta disagree buddy. There are in fact some plants that will not veg more than 4 or 5 nodes when flowered directly from seed. I have had this experience more than once. in fact, one of the best tasting, smelling, and intoxicating plants i ever had was an indica bagseed that measured less than one foot tall at chop and yielded about 3-4 grams of actual nug. no complaints about the quality of the flower, nor the speed of the harvest, but it is true that the yield was only about an 1/8th oz.

i think height may have been influenced by the fact that they were horizontally lit, but it could also be in the genotype. but for this reason, and other experiences like it, brother motaco is correct to say that some plants will not develop hardly at all with this method. i don't see that as a problem because if you know the strain and you're expecting very small plants you can arrange a sea of green that would yield great with this method. meanwhile other plants, as many of atmosphere's pics illustrate, will develop wonderfully well and emerge into 1-2 meter tall plants before actually flowering.

but there is the real possibility of plants producing "dwarfs" with this method, undue to any kind of grower error.