12/12 From Seed: A Different Way To Grow

[Haggis123]

Hey Haggis...

Exactly dude. Its bad enough when people (who likely have never even tried growing this way) claim that it results in bad yields, but when someone makes a ridiculous statement associating 12/12 From Seed with yields of 1 friggin gram that makes my blood boil. Thats the kind of statement that can steer a newb away from ever trying this method for themselves.

That pretty little girl of the AK48 variety that you have going...well, I had a Northern LIght plant that was only 12" tall and she gave an ounce of sweet, sticky, dried bud...and she didn't look too much fatter than that pic you posted.

I got the same feelings as you Hal, don't knock it.....till you tried it.....that's what I say.
I will be well happy with an "oz", from her.
She is, starting to put some weight on now and hopefully she will continue to do so........when the wife puts weight on....I tell her you need to try and get that weight off "love"....but me plants can pack on as much weight as they can and I ain't complaining..lol.

 

[Berry_Coughin']

Sorry Hal, I just thought that with me sprouting seeds under 12/12 and this thread's title being '12/12 from seed, a different way..' I thought I might have some useful info, and could also get some from you all....

Don't you think it's handy to know that you can sprout under 12/12, show sex, then revert to veg and get the males out? I found that incorporating this into my garden saves a-lot of time waiting for pre-flowers.....

Any-ways, thanks for letting me jump on here....

 

[Haggis123]

I'm with you SatGhost.....as you said it ain't all down to total yield's....as that's what many stoner's just look at.
It comes down to as you said space, watts etc.

If your growing in a micro environment, you cant grow trees can you.
We are merely here exploring different techniques and trying to compile a strain history to find out which strain will react best to this style of growing.

Why grow trees and get loads of small airy buds that take an age to grow, trim and manicure when you can grow our style and end up with pole style plants that you can just cut off at the base, hang to dry, cure for a while and get smoking them, there nugs.
Minimum trimming....Maximum Satisfaction.

 

[Hal]

Sorry Hal, I just thought that with me sprouting seeds under 12/12 and this thread's title being '12/12 from seed, a different way..' I thought I might have some useful info, and could also get some from you all....

Don't you think it's handy to know that you can sprout under 12/12, show sex, then revert to veg and get the males out? I found that incorporating this into my garden saves a-lot of time waiting for pre-flowers.....

Any-ways, thanks for letting me jump on here....

Hey Berry..

No need to apologize my friend. The title of the thread can be misleading, if you don't read the introductory posts that explain it.

I do think it is handy to know that you can sprout under 12/12 in order to get your plants to reveal their sex earlier...very handy indeed. I think anyone who is going to do a scrog grow, for example, would definitely be served well by doing this. Why put all the effort into training your plants if some will turn out to be unwanted males?

BUT... since you have visited this thread...why not give this method a try? Granted, there are certain situations that argue against this method, like if your local laws penalize on the number of plants grown, or if you have a ton of space to grow big plants in (although Atmosphere would argue that it would still be better to grow this way because keeping the plants short, and minimizing leaf growth, all work better with the limited penetration distance of our indoor lighting), but it would be fun to just do an experiment, and you can do that while you are flowering your other plants.

 

[Hal]

Hey Haggis...

Where the heck do you see a post from Satghost to respond to? I don't see it.

 

[Haggis123]

He must have deleted his post ????
Cause I aint going mad or been smoking too much, he had definately posted a short while ago.
That must be why he has ghost in his handle.....one minute he's there the next he's gone...lol.

 

[Haggis123]

Just to show I ain't going mad......I still had the post notification that came through to my e-mail.


Hello Haggis123,

SatGhost has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - 12/12 From Seed: A Different Way To Grow - in the Growers Forums forum of International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums.

This thread is located at:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=51760&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
muddy, hotc, atmo etc... hi fellas.

Hal, looking good buddy, i love the way you reserved the first ten posts lol.

i think the reason motaco doubts this method is because like so many growers he has 'per plant' or 'per harvest' or even 'per watt' yields on the brain. these are completely meaningless. you can yield anything in an undisclosed amount of time, as a grower you want to know much weed you can grow in X amount of time using X amount energy and X amount of space. this is the ONLY way you can truly define your skills, you simply have no bragging rights without these numbers, period.

here's og's efficiency calculator from memory, this is the way to accurately compare growers who use different methods, lights, strains etc:

RootEnergyTime = (RootLightEnergy × (RootLightOnTime/1000)) × RootTime
VegEnergyTime = (VegLightEnergy × (VegLightOnTime/1000)) × VegTime
FlowerEnergyTime = (FlowerLightEnergy × (FlowerLightOnTime/1000)) × FlowerTime
Energy Efficiency = DryYield ÷ (RootEnergyTime + VegEnergyTime + FlowerEnergyTime)

Space Efficiency = (DryYield ÷ ((RootGrowArea + VegGrowArea +
FlowerGrowArea) x (RootTime + VegTime + FlowerTime)))

Garden Efficiency = (Energy Efficiency + Space Efficiency) ÷ 2

remember:
1. Energy= total energy that the space consumes, in watts (lights+fans+...).
2. use grams for DryYield and square meters for Area.
3. the correct expression of yield is X g/w/m (... grams per watt per month).

so is anyone with me on this, or am i speaking greek here? it's really simple if you think about it... just punch your numbers in and see what you get.

 

[motaco]

hey listen hal. you can act all bigshot all you want but when you get some plants that give 1g yields don't bitch at me. and when you get people bitching you out that this didn't work don't bitch at me. I've force flowered from seed alot more plants than you ever will and maybe your lil ass should learn from people with years of experience. maybe you wanna build up a lil more experience before you "stomp out the untruths" that will be truths for you soon enough.

I have PERSONALLY had NUMEROUS plants flowered from seed yield less than an 1/8 and its not my growing techniques. I'm pretty well known and I can't say the same thing about you. so don't call me bullshit because you don't know what your talking about. some plants need veg time to yield anything, and that is a fact. ask anyone with more experience than you. its no secret. especially pure indicas and even some hybrids need a veg time. as well as some plants will be stressing and causing hermis. if you knew better you'd know I already have a section dedicated to 12/12 from seed in my ultimate sativa thread.

you remind me very much of sproutco. making threads doesn't make you a grow guru. and it's going to piss people off in the end. might wanna flip that misinformation label back around.


I speak about it because I've likely done more of it than everyone in this thread combined and if experience isn't wanted than I'll shut up. but you've got some rude awakenings for you if you think this works on every strain.

 

[Hal]

Thats a real good post...wonder why satghost took it down? I can't say I understand it as of yet...need to focus on it more than I can at the moment. But it does look like a valuable formula.

Thanks to satghost and to you too Haggis.

 

[Haggis123]

No Prob's Hal, I just wondered why he spent time posting all that....only to delete it ????

Motaco, go crawl under a rock dude....your bullshit ain't wanted here if that's your attitude.

If you look at my AK48 even when the pic's were taken around a week ago.....there is way more than a gram or even an 1/8th there already.
Look at atmosphere's pic's an all while your there.

All I can say is.....if you only got gram from your plants....you ain't the grower you think you are.

"NOW SHUT-UP OR PUT UP" Dude.

 

[motaco]

yeah well you listen. here I used to think like you and then I learned better. 12/12 from seed don't work great for all strains. did it for years and still do it. so maybe you should learn from others experience instead of insisting you know better.

and my attitude? I'm not the one who responded to the thread with a title "bullshit" and I dont take shit from sproutco #2 who is gonna fuck up a bunch of peoples grows becuase he thinks he's shantibaba after three grows.


but I'll leave your thread. no problem. but in three months when you gotta edit a buncha shit after people chewing you out don't think I won't have a smirk on my face.

 

[Haggis123]

What do you think we are trying to do here.....we are in the process of trying to compile a list of strains that work well and find out which strains don't.

Yes admittedly not all strains will work well to this, as you have found out.

Just because you haven't done well with this it does not mean that all strains are the same.

I shall repeat what I said to you earlier but a little louder this time
"LOOK AT ATMOSPHERE'S PLANTS AND MY AK48"....is that not good enough proof for you that it does work ???

 

[Hal]

Hey Motaco...

Before I respond to your post, I want to get things straight. I visited you Ultimate Sativa Thread (you certainly have a lot of info on sativas!), but I was unable to find the section you said was dedicated to "12/12 From Seed." Can you please post a link to it?

Matter of fact, upon searching that thread for the words "12/12 from seed" only 2 posts (out of 1,176 total for the thread) seemed to be discussing it. Neither of them were posted by you, by the way.

 

[Haggis123]

Hal.....you musta missed something dude.....he's the 12/12 pro'.....got a whole forum of his own dedicated to the subject....lol.


Sorry...I shouldn't really be bitchin like this.

 

[motaco]

actually yes. back at OG. me and L33t and his hazes were the two proponents of flowering from seed. which is still a viable option especially on tropical sativas. but the misinformation your spreading IMHO about most plants yielding an ounce is what is the complete bullshit. I've done alot of flowering from seed. because I do so many sativas. and in the process off of the other beans I throw them in from seed too. and I've seen many many strains go through this regimen. which is why I am criticizing it.

I think your overblowing the benefits of it. You can convince someone to grow deep chunk and g13xblack widow from seed for a new grower with your promises and I've personally had both of those strains yield less than 1/8 per plant because they need veg time. If you overblow claims and don't speak out about the other side you are doing new growers a harm. which is what I think you are doing.

this is not a new method of growing.there was a big boom of this in the late 80's. this is how the strain williams wonder came about. also how hawaiian strains are grown, and many other notable postive features. but you gotta say the negatives with it. and I ain't having you call me out as a liar and bullshit because you have done it less than me, and I said the truth about this method. that don't hold up with me get it?


first page of the RUST thread. about finding sativa mothers by growing from 12/12 seed to identify which ones you plan to keep. IMHO the best use of the 12/12 method.

the reason I didn't make a 12/12 from seed thread is its not a method of growing I reccomend doing. after much experience. I'll bet more than yours.

"so the trick is maximizing space, plant potential, and time. its about finding a mother remember that.

and my answer is 2ltr bottles. veg your sats in 2ltr containers planted densly and flower after just a few weeks. the point is not to get great bud off of it, or yield. the point is to identify your mother ASAP. good plants will be good plants and shit plants will be shit plants from seed. once you find the one that is like you want you can keep it. take the main growth tip for a clone, and once the new tips are taking off happily its okay to flower. this is the long, but safe way to choose a mom.

the idea is rather then spend the time and more importantly an entire light on a strain you know is going to take a long time, you limit it to a few feet of one light, and about 90 some odd days.

the short way is more dangerous but it fits the bill anyway because alot of you don't have veg space to be taking all these clones and waiting to see which ones are good or not. The only real difference is that you only wait 3 days for seedlings to harden up before you flower. don't keep the light that close at first, until they want you too. a cycle should finish anywhere between 75-120 days total from seed. plants will identify themselves sexually after only two weeks. when you select the one you like if you didn't have space to clone then you can reveg. but revegs don't always work. but luckily sativas are predispositioned to reflower/reveg. anyway you want to identify the plant you want. and weed out the rest w/o wasting the time and light on it.

no sense having a light full of one nice plant and six that you'll have to find someone to sell it to.

when you get the one you want THEN you can spend some time and a light on it.

people say the genes change when you reveg but at least IMHO that rarely is the case. I've never noticed much difference. but if you have the option cloning prior to flower is always best for safety if nothing else.

Now remember plants and taste will change with time anyway, but in my experience I've never seen a plant that was superior to the rest be overtaken in quality by a different plant, due to a reveg. The one that was the best before reveg was always the one that was best after reveg.

this is also a good way to grow homemade f2's and 3s."

 

[Hal]

Motaco,

Damn dude, can't ya just post a link for me?

First you posted that this was a section of your UST...I spend time looking for it, now ya tell me its an entirely different thread! I went to the growers forums page and typed in RUST and got page after page of threads that didn't say RUST.

Can't ya just post a link like I asked?

 

[Guest]

hey thanks Haggis mate, i was trying to figure out wtf happened to my post? i sure as shit didn't delete it, damn thing just disappeared... bizarre.

anyway the point i was making is that it is all down to total yields.

 

[buzzed day]

hello all first i plan on retsarting my grow in aug. sometime.i will be useing feminized seeds. i have haze,purplecrush/black domain and nl/ww that i made but was thinking of giveing them 2or3 wks under the 400 watt conversion bulb then go to 12 and 12 but i'm open to try it from the get go.i would like to see yeilds posted if posabel for these plants or basicaly what other are getting per plant for these or other plants.any help thanks and
PEACE

 

[Guest]

again, per plant yield tells you nothing about total yield.

 

[Hal]

Hey Buzzed...

Like Satghost said, the per plant yields aren't the way to compare this method to vegetatively grown gardens. You can fit many more plants per square foot/meter into your space this way compared to the plants that get big and bushy from the vegetative period.

Grams per watt is a better way to compare. A guy called Atmosphere gets 1 gram per watt, as do others. So if you were growing with a 400 watt light, you could get 400 grams (14 ounces) if you had a good handle on the other aspects of growing pot.

Hope that helps