vancoast_com
New member
Looking forward to your updates
Excellent work Creeperpark. I try this thechnic a few years ago with some sativa dominant strains and a 250w hps. in my experience not great yields per plant but great quality
I had a lot of fun doing that grow until the plants started falling over from heavyweight.
I had a lot of fun doing that grow until the plants started falling over from heavyweight.
i'm sure that's a problem that anyone would like to have hahah
limegreenlimey
Active member
I only remove leaves that are:
Dead
Diseased
Damaged
And:
Growth in the lower third of the plants, up to about one month into flowering.
The idea of removing shade/fan leaves from plants has never made sense to me. These are the best providers of growth and energy for the plant, their "solar panels". I have seen no evidence that light on the bud specifically produces bigger or riper buds. No pun intended: cannabis isn't a stone fruit tree. If you want to grow peaches, the fruit needs light to ripen. Cannabis produces flowers systematically. Happy, healthy plants produce big, ripe flowers. As far as I understand it, the big flowers are at the top and at the end of the branches because that's where the flowering hormones are concentrated and because these are the locations on the plant that are advantageous for pollen dissemination, and pollination, not because these locations get more direct light.
Might be wrong but those are the conclusions I have drawn from years of growing.
Hello everyone! I’ve read nearly every post on this thread, and just finished my first grow using 12/12 from seed. I wanted to thank everyone for all the great info here, and share my own experience.
Quick overview: 3 Bangi Haze and 1 Oaxaca x Purple Satellite (both from coloradosativas), grown under 100w 4x2’ T8 fluorescent lights, in a 30”x18”x36” tent. Plants were grown in 1/2 gal fabric pots (really, 1 gal pots folded over to reduce height) in FFHF soil, worm castings, and just a bit of general-purpose fertilizer. The plants were never topped but were LST’ed as soon as they had a couple sets of leaves.
My main goal in this grow, other than getting a bit of nice sativa bud to smoke, was to keep things really simple. I was worried about plants getting too large in the small tent, but as you’ll see I may have went too far here. Also, I was too cheap and lazy to go out and buy 20 different nutes and figure out how to use them all!
I planted 12 reg seeds (6 Bangi Haze, 6 Oaxaca), 9 of which sprouted. Here they are on day 15. Several of them fell over, but stood back up on their own just a few days after this pic was taken:
Of the 9 that sprouted, I got 3 Bangi haze females and only 1 Oaxaca female (back right). Here they are, freshly transplanted into fabric pots and LST’ed, on day 32:
One Bangi Haze lost most of its fan leaves early on, and finished really quickly with browning sugar leaves and even some brown calyxes. Here she is on day 80, right before harvest. Yield was only 3g:
The other 3 ladies on day 80 (Oaxaca on the left, Bangi center and right):
Next up is another Bangi Haze (1st pic) and the Oaxaca (2nd pic), harvested on day 93. These yielded around 5-6g apiece:
Finally was the most sativa dominant Bangi Haze, which was the slowest to show sex and went a whopping 134 days! I haven’t finished drying and weighing her yet, but the yield is definitely going to be higher than the others, I'm estimate at least 10g:
The Oaxacan ended up being a pretty underwhelming smoke. Not a lot of flavor, and a short-lived high. I suspect I might have taken her down too early, but it could also be the strain. It has a light cherry chocolate aroma, but doesn’t really come through in the smoke.
The Bangi Haze on the other hand is an awesome high! Not too energizing nor narcotic, and a really smooth sweet smoke that's hard to describe. I’m definitely going to be growing this one again in the future.
As you can see from the pics, none of the plants really got very big, and the overall yield was only about an ounce. I suspect I needed more nutes, and probably larger pots. I don’t think the light was the issue as I had really short internodes, but the plants never really filled out the tent so it’s possible more light would’ve helped. Even though these were sativas, they never reached the top of my tent, even the one that went almost 20 weeks.
Overall I had a lot of fun with this grow, and proved that you can grow some nice buds with a bit of dirt, some water, and a light! I welcome any feedback you all have to help me get a bigger yield next time. Thanks for reading.
Quick overview: 3 Bangi Haze and 1 Oaxaca x Purple Satellite (both from coloradosativas), grown under 100w 4x2’ T8 fluorescent lights, in a 30”x18”x36” tent. Plants were grown in 1/2 gal fabric pots (really, 1 gal pots folded over to reduce height) in FFHF soil, worm castings, and just a bit of general-purpose fertilizer. The plants were never topped but were LST’ed as soon as they had a couple sets of leaves.
My main goal in this grow, other than getting a bit of nice sativa bud to smoke, was to keep things really simple. I was worried about plants getting too large in the small tent, but as you’ll see I may have went too far here. Also, I was too cheap and lazy to go out and buy 20 different nutes and figure out how to use them all!
I planted 12 reg seeds (6 Bangi Haze, 6 Oaxaca), 9 of which sprouted. Here they are on day 15. Several of them fell over, but stood back up on their own just a few days after this pic was taken:
Of the 9 that sprouted, I got 3 Bangi haze females and only 1 Oaxaca female (back right). Here they are, freshly transplanted into fabric pots and LST’ed, on day 32:
One Bangi Haze lost most of its fan leaves early on, and finished really quickly with browning sugar leaves and even some brown calyxes. Here she is on day 80, right before harvest. Yield was only 3g:
The other 3 ladies on day 80 (Oaxaca on the left, Bangi center and right):
Next up is another Bangi Haze (1st pic) and the Oaxaca (2nd pic), harvested on day 93. These yielded around 5-6g apiece:
Finally was the most sativa dominant Bangi Haze, which was the slowest to show sex and went a whopping 134 days! I haven’t finished drying and weighing her yet, but the yield is definitely going to be higher than the others, I'm estimate at least 10g:
The Oaxacan ended up being a pretty underwhelming smoke. Not a lot of flavor, and a short-lived high. I suspect I might have taken her down too early, but it could also be the strain. It has a light cherry chocolate aroma, but doesn’t really come through in the smoke.
The Bangi Haze on the other hand is an awesome high! Not too energizing nor narcotic, and a really smooth sweet smoke that's hard to describe. I’m definitely going to be growing this one again in the future.
As you can see from the pics, none of the plants really got very big, and the overall yield was only about an ounce. I suspect I needed more nutes, and probably larger pots. I don’t think the light was the issue as I had really short internodes, but the plants never really filled out the tent so it’s possible more light would’ve helped. Even though these were sativas, they never reached the top of my tent, even the one that went almost 20 weeks.
Overall I had a lot of fun with this grow, and proved that you can grow some nice buds with a bit of dirt, some water, and a light! I welcome any feedback you all have to help me get a bigger yield next time. Thanks for reading.
aphrodisia
Member
AleisterGrowley666
Active member
So you're saying since the old study is old it's invalid and further research needs to be done but then you say 12/12 does not affect THC levels without any new study to prove what your saying is correct. I think I'll stick with the "Old" scientist on this one and say cannabis needs to mature enough to gain full THC, which they cant without a 2 months worth of veg.12/12 From Seed: A Different Way To Grow
photo: courtesy of Atmosphere
This thread is devoted to an excellent method of growing our favorite plant. “12/12 From Seed” is a proven way to grow pot, and produces yields up to 1 gram of dried bud per 1 watt of electricity consumed (eg: a 400 watt HPS light is able to produce a harvest of 400 grams). It is a very good choice for growers who have a limited amount of space to set up their gardens. The cannabis grown this way is potent, sticky, and yes…stinky. Most pot plants suffer no ill effects from being grown under this light regimen.
Typically, in traditional method, the cannabis cultivator will start their plants with a lighting regimen that provides anywhere from 18 to 24 hours of light a day, called the ‘vegetation’ phase, to make the plant grow as large as possible, increasing the amount of ‘budding sites’ on the plant. Once the plant has grown large, it is forced into flowering by switching the lighting regimen to 12 hours on/12 hours off. This results in plants that produce copious yields, but take up considerable space.
“12/12 From Seed” eliminates the vegetation phase. As soon as the seed sprouts through the surface it is given a light regimen of 12 hours on/12 hours off. Plants grown this way do not grow as tall as they would if given a vegetation phase. The shape of the plants is also different, losing much of their natural ‘bush’ quality. Our plants tend to be shaped like a “pole,” with the main bud formation happening along the main stem of the plant. This allows the grower to fit more plants per square foot/meter. It also makes possible gardens in spaces that growing larger, bush-like plants would be impossible. The shorter height of these plants also works in concert with the limited penetration distance that exists with any/all forms of indoor lighting.
Other than the difference in the lighting regimen, growing cannabis using this method is the same as the more traditional way. You still need to learn about the other important factors in growing a healthy garden, such as; proper nutrient levels; maintaining the correct PH level; controlling temperature, humidity, and odor; and providing ventilation. Because we are starting from seed, most of us use soil as our medium, although other mediums may be used. Other than that, all other personal choices to control the environment is the same as growing any other way.
This method does have its critics. Most of these critics have never tried to grow this way, they are just passing along commonly held mis-information without having actual experience. The main criticism is that the yields gotten from this method are miniscule and not worth the time involved. We challenge that, with the experience of a grower called “Atmosphere” who gets 1 gram of dried bud for each watt of electricity used (that would be a harvest of 8 ounces from a 250 watt HPS light!). “Atmosphere” had a thread back on Overgrow, which is where many of us first encountered this method, and he is held in high regard among folks who grow this way. He visits this thread and provides solid information based on years of experience.
Some critics claim that the amount of the main cannabinoid, THC, produced by plants grown this way is less than plants that are allowed to mature with a vegetation phase. This opinion is based on a study done many years ago, well before modern gardening techniques took hold, and almost certainly did not test any plants that were grown using this lighting regimen. New tests must be done, that’s all there is to it. More importantly, the empirical evidence from those who have grown this way, and the experience of their friends who have smoked these plants, is that this cannabis is just as potent as any they have ever smoked (strain variety taken into account, of course). If there is any difference in THC percentages, it is minute, and not noticeable to the cannabis consumer.
So pull up a chair, and watch what we do. Keep an open mind, and observe our results. Try growing some of your own crops with this method and then make up your mind as to whether there is some mighty fine ganja to be grown this way.
AleisterGrowley666
Active member
Awesome 12/12 grows
I plan on starting a 1212 uk cheese grow very soon.
I'm still out here doing 12/12. Actually I'm getting a bit discouraged with it, as I find it difficult to fill the canopy in my tent. Especially this winter with colder temps things have been pretty slow (between 55f-70f in my tent). Perhaps I need even longer flowering cultivars to really fill it out.
First pic is a Bangi haze with a cool fade pattern on the leaves. Second one is from bagseed, the child of the plant in my last post.
First pic is a Bangi haze with a cool fade pattern on the leaves. Second one is from bagseed, the child of the plant in my last post.
Attachments
H e d g e
Well-known member
I‘ve got plants on 10.45:13.15 from seed in 1/2 litre pots in the corners of the tent growing really well, zero branching, buds on sticks and half done already, exactly what I wanted.
The Thai I’ve got in a scrog between them is still waiting to show it’s gender.
I’ve let them grow tall above the scrog, won’t get a massive yield but it’s something from a space that wasn’t being used and I’ve got more seeds than it’s possible to grow before I peg it so might as well make use of them.
I’ll add a pic when the lights come on.
The Thai I’ve got in a scrog between them is still waiting to show it’s gender.
I’ve let them grow tall above the scrog, won’t get a massive yield but it’s something from a space that wasn’t being used and I’ve got more seeds than it’s possible to grow before I peg it so might as well make use of them.
I’ll add a pic when the lights come on.
Last edited:
December 1st stsrted from 12-12 then changed to 11-13 after sexing 1st January 2025.
I wouldn't grow seeds any other way now.
I wouldn't grow seeds any other way now.
Hey there,
As you've seen, strong sativa dominance or pure sativas yield better without a veg period.
It's certainly possible for you to achieve higher yields with the same volume of soil and you can get much higher yields than that with a much smaller volume of coco as well. More soil and a longer veg time equals bigger plants and bigger yields, but with 12/12 from seed you get diminished returns because the plants can only utilize so much of the soil provided beyond a certain pot size with limited light. Coco has a substantial learning curve, but if you don't insist on organic fertilizer then you can do fine with only using a dry all-in-one fertilizer (you can search for "Yara") and some CalMag. If you want to stick to organic fertilizer you might want to look into using guano for a quick nutrient boost if it's needed.
Here's a report of someone growing under very similar conditions as you did. Small pots, sativas, low light.
https://www.icmag.com/threads/highland-thai-johaar-lemon-candy-syrian-rhino-d.18124355/
Upgrading your lights would actually help even if you just get the same wattage as before if you choose the right lights. That's because T-8 lights are very old-fashioned at this point and have poor efficiency, they need to be very close to the plants, have a poor light spectrum, only so much of the power gets converted into light and only a portion of that is useable by the plants. You can get much better LED lights for relatively cheap, but would have to do your research because there are a lot of lights that aren't worth buying out there.
Your Bangi taking 19 weeks is definitely abnormal. It prematurely losing all of its fan leaves on its own wasn't helpful and can probably be prevented if you get your feeding dialed in better, just try again and you'll eventually get the hang of it. Reducing the light to 11/13 or even 10/14 later on would speed things up too.
If you grow 12/12 from seed then the better start your plants have then the better the results later on. If they don't manage to grow pretty tall quickly, then they just cap out at a certain size and stay small.
Nice plants and good luck to you.
Thanks for your advice @Colorize. Regarding the T-8 fixture, the main reason I have that is to accommodate the low height of my grow tent (36 inches). But I think it's worth trying LEDs, I do LST with these small plants and I actually have a decent amount of head room in there, could be even more with more aggressive training.
Regarding nutes, I am continuing to get this dialed in and preferring underfed to over. I used some dry amendments this time but didn't reapply often enough I think. Still, the plants that received the amendment are really fading, and the one that didn't get any ferts has nearly dropped all its fan leaves.
Here's the whole tent and a few zoomed in pics from this morning. Getting close...
Regarding nutes, I am continuing to get this dialed in and preferring underfed to over. I used some dry amendments this time but didn't reapply often enough I think. Still, the plants that received the amendment are really fading, and the one that didn't get any ferts has nearly dropped all its fan leaves
.Here's the whole tent and a few zoomed in pics from this morning. Getting close...
Attachments
Thanks for your advice @Colorize. Regarding the T-8 fixture, the main reason I have that is to accommodate the low height of my grow tent (36 inches). But I think it's worth trying LEDs, I do LST with these small plants and I actually have a decent amount of head room in there, could be even more with more aggressive training.
Regarding nutes, I am continuing to get this dialed in and preferring underfed to over. I used some dry amendments this time but didn't reapply often enough I think. Still, the plants that received the amendment are really fading, and the one that didn't get any ferts has nearly dropped all its fan leaves
Here's the whole tent and a few zoomed in pics from this morning. Getting close...
You're welcome. Nice micro garden, I think there's something really appealing about it.
Modern LEDs often come in the shape of a thin metal plate with a small ballast on them, so space for the fixture isn't really a concern. It's just a matter of cost and if you think it's worth it, especially since you already have some lights that do okay. You'd save on replacing bulbs and get better light with better penetration.
If you want them to fill out your canopy better, something that may be worth considering is to give them a little pseudo-veg period as a compromise, a week or two of 13/11 or 14/10 and then onto 12/12 or 11/13.
Think of feeding them as taking a bath. Neither too many nutrients (hot water) nor too few (cold water) are the way to go and the best place to be is somewhere in the middle. Timing is pretty important with the fade, otherwise it comes at the cost of some performance, but you'll get a feel for it under your growing conditions.
Nice plants and enjoy your harvest.
Last edited:
Fwiw I use 4x t5s for vegging 95% of the time but occasionally in peak summer I'll change to led if its exceptionally warm, to get equall intensity from the 240w board takes about 30% of what t5s use...there's no heat so it's only practical for me at the hottest time of the year, in a micro grow with a suitable environment led couldn't not improve your yeild
Good luck
Good luck
Well done dude it's not too easy to grow in 36" of height just a pot and light takes about 10" from you before you get a plant in there.Thanks for your advice @Colorize. Regarding the T-8 fixture, the main reason I have that is to accommodate the low height of my grow tent (36 inches). But I think it's worth trying LEDs, I do LST with these small plants and I actually have a decent amount of head room in there, could be even more with more aggressive training.
Regarding nutes, I am continuing to get this dialed in and preferring underfed to over. I used some dry amendments this time but didn't reapply often enough I think. Still, the plants that received the amendment are really fading, and the one that didn't get any ferts has nearly dropped all its fan leaves
Here's the whole tent and a few zoomed in pics from this morning. Getting close...
Excellent!!
