-
ICMag with help from Phlizon, Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest for Christmas! You can check it here. Prizes are: full spectrum led light, seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
100% male with feminized seeds?
- Thread starter Yagar2000
- Start date
Yes, dioecious varieties are more sexually stable.
I've never been interested in autoflowering, not when I smoked THC.
Now I use them as a hobby, at home they are easier to handle, and I wanted to test the inheritance of this trait.
I did not find any commercial variety of regular autoflowering CBD seeds available. This was the other reason for choosing Finola as pollen donor, to make the feminized Auto CBD 20:1, a regular one.
I don't recommend Finola for smoking, I only use it to experiment.
Returning to the topic.
"Monoeciousness is artificial in hemp, it can only exist with the help of man, and without selection, the dioecious state will return in two or three generations. It is therefore very hard and demanding to keep 90 to 95 % monoeciousness during seed multiplications (Ivan Bocsa, 1994)"
For you, the simplest thing is to argue that a monoecious crop (XX) becomes dioecious again due to dioecious pollen contamination, because you say is completely impossible to see a dioecious male from a monoecious crop (XX).
This next quote then must also be wrong, and that these people do not know what they are talking about, and that the % of males has nothing to do with each monoecious variety, and that breeders give that expected % without any criteria.
In this article from 2023:
"A monoecious variety stand will still consist of all three sexes of plants, with the majority of the stand presenting as monoecious. The number of pure males to be expected in each variety is usually acknowledged in the variety description written by the plant breeder. Routinely, there is up to 10% pure males within a monoecious variety, but the number of males in a stand can increase from year to year and from field to field in both monoecious and dioecious varieties due to stress."
If in something as unstable as a monoecious crop they say 10% males, in a much more stable feminized marijuana crop, does not seem unreasonable to me a 0.1% of males.
From my point of view, there is still a lot to study about the sexual determinism of cannabis, and all this evidence, which is not little, makes me think that it is not completely impossible. Just because I don't know the reason, doesn't mean I have to deny this possibility.
If scientists thought that all theories were true and that everything was discovered, science would be something static, and we would all be stuck in the past.
I've been thru that quote before this is not new, you see the bit where they state pure males!!! How the f--k did they know what they had? They saw something that looked a male so it must be!! This has been done to death on various threads now...
They aren't males FFS.
You know I've never seen a dead unicorn or a living one... They could exist.
They aren't males FFS.
You know I've never seen a dead unicorn or a living one... They could exist.
In the same way that breeders choose the females to breed, if they look like females and behave like such, it doesn't matter what they really are.
We know that the moon is there and that it exists, but we don't know for sure how it was formed or where it came from. There are theories and hypotheses, but no certainty.
Last edited:
CannaZen
Well-known member
I freaked out last night but i think im well within my right. @kendermag i want to respond 
it is different for hemp because they grow so much of it close together in fields. And I think intersex is infectious but I have few experience with it. If that were true it would not had grown to be so prevalent in the field next to my residence, in fact I struggled to find one female until I see now they're mostly female that were once mostly intersex left. And it's a strategy that gets just as much seeds out of the crop. The farmers don't much care just for edible seeds. Imagine it starting from a handful of herm plants with no control for sex. Growing seed from a hermy pollination leads to more hermy but the hemp seems to retain an equal ratio of intersex male and female seed production. Although I've seen a mostly male plant that i grew, non hemp, start throwing pistils on its own regardless I have no idea it was xx or xy or whether they still have gender at that point what's the point having seperate sex chromosomes, do they truly have seperate sex chromosomes that become autosomal? I don't exactly buy monoecious exactly if they have seperate sex chromosomes. In fact the intersex traits ensures maximum ratio production of seed. I'm done with this discussion but I'd be interested to response regarding whether they actually have seperate chromosomes.
it is different for hemp because they grow so much of it close together in fields. And I think intersex is infectious but I have few experience with it. If that were true it would not had grown to be so prevalent in the field next to my residence, in fact I struggled to find one female until I see now they're mostly female that were once mostly intersex left. And it's a strategy that gets just as much seeds out of the crop. The farmers don't much care just for edible seeds. Imagine it starting from a handful of herm plants with no control for sex. Growing seed from a hermy pollination leads to more hermy but the hemp seems to retain an equal ratio of intersex male and female seed production. Although I've seen a mostly male plant that i grew, non hemp, start throwing pistils on its own regardless I have no idea it was xx or xy or whether they still have gender at that point what's the point having seperate sex chromosomes, do they truly have seperate sex chromosomes that become autosomal? I don't exactly buy monoecious exactly if they have seperate sex chromosomes. In fact the intersex traits ensures maximum ratio production of seed. I'm done with this discussion but I'd be interested to response regarding whether they actually have seperate chromosomes.
Last edited:
I freaked out last night but i think im well within my right. @kendermag i want to respond
Intersex (monoecism) is "infectious" but is not as dominant as sex stable dioecious one .
-Dioecious Female x Monoecious = Unisexual F1 generation almost completely of "pure" female plants (88.3-98%) with some monoecious (1.7-2%). This is under normal growing conditions, since I understand that with certain stress, some of those "pure" females will express intersexual traits, inherited from the monoecious parent.
-Unisexual F1 x Monoecious = Monoecious Marketable Seeds with 80-90% of monoecious plants, 10-18.5% of "males" and 0.5-1.5% of "pure" females plants.
-Monoecious x dioecious male = almost dioecious hemp plants with some monoecious plants.
Monoecious hemp is XX because it was created that way (fibrimon) it is the form that produces the most seeds and the crop is more uniform. All plants produce seeds and individuals are of a similar size which makes harvesting easier. All monoecious hemp strains have the same origin, Fibrimon.
There is no evidence to indicate that a monoecious XY variety cannot be created, but its seed production would be lower. Some have raised the possibility of creating it to maximize fiber production, since the plants could be larger, although perhaps of poorer quality due to having a shorter life.
Regarding chromosomes, there are two predominant models, X:Y and X:A.
The first seems to have more acceptance, and would be a human-like model. But it has some gaps, which is why other models have been proposed, such as X:A, where the Y chromosome does not define the male, but rather a ratio between the number of Xs and the number of autosomes, which is 18 (2 pairs of 9 autosomes). Other models have also been proposed, such as the one based on environmental effects, the one based on polygenic traits, epigenetic processes and etc.
Last edited:
CannaZen
Well-known member
Yeah, I don't follow. Seperate xx and xy chromosomes or not now your saying they do x:A like said. Alright. Good enough. Yeah that hemp not good for my plants in this case I gather. I don't want them to mix, it would be the end to sensimilla in my lines and true gender.
That's right, it's better not to mix them because in the least serious case, if your varieties were THC, you would be decreasing the THC levels of the offspring and increasing the CBD levels... If your varieties were a CBD variety, you would also surely descend it since hemp has lower levels than CBD marijuana varieties
And if the donor pollen also came from monoecious hemp, you would also be increasing sexual instability.
Iván Bócsa with his creation Panorama (Fibrimon x Lebanese)
CannaZen
Well-known member
Guaranteed hermies, though I've been back and forth I'm going to grow some out maybe. I decided if they're going to grow hemp next year maybe I'll plant the f1 of these f1's. Gosh though. This isn't the thread to talk about it. the only and best way to keep a line hermy free is to cull plants showing intersex and to not grow them. Those farmers would have to play hell getting the intersex out of their seeds.
Buy a greenhouse, HEPA intakes...done worrying about that field...could do that
Like I said, woke. I hope you and your lovely future bride, Barry, all the happiness 🫣
I believe this something of a fallacy
you can encourage hermies by using them as a genetic source
stable + stable isn't always stable, the hermie will appear in its own good time
but the how and why is mysterious, that's part of the thread's theme
Polygenic traits are extremely complex...
Even managing a few monogenic traits is already a titanic task. With the case of corn domestication, we can get an idea of how difficult it is to modify only 4 or 5 monogenic traits to convert teosinte into corn.
I love this video, if anyone hasn't seen it, I recommend it 100%
The Mysterious Origin of Corn
CannaZen
Well-known member
Haha ty. Whatever we're smoking.
Marshmellow
New member
Hello,
First time poster here.
Good thread, interesting topic.
I feel the need to comment on current discussion.
I think an important distinction to make between monoecious and dioecious plants, is one's capable of intersex expression, whilst the other isn't. Not without our own input.
Very interesting to me though, in a study I found awhile back, is the DNA markers in both monoecious and dioecios female plants have XX constitution.
My own takeaway from reading, is you can identify dioecious male plants via lab test.
But you need to identify the dioecious/monoecious female plants by growing them to maturity and through "stress testing".
Because monoecious or female they're both XX constitution. And it's a slippery slope to say XX constitution = female plant.
First time poster here.
Good thread, interesting topic.
I feel the need to comment on current discussion.
I think an important distinction to make between monoecious and dioecious plants, is one's capable of intersex expression, whilst the other isn't. Not without our own input.
Very interesting to me though, in a study I found awhile back, is the DNA markers in both monoecious and dioecios female plants have XX constitution.
My own takeaway from reading, is you can identify dioecious male plants via lab test.
But you need to identify the dioecious/monoecious female plants by growing them to maturity and through "stress testing".
Because monoecious or female they're both XX constitution. And it's a slippery slope to say XX constitution = female plant.
Last edited by a moderator:
