question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

Im no purist. for me the smoke is more important than origin. if some skunkhaze would be better than THH I would grow it instead of THH, but it is not.. that´s why Im growing THH for personal use only. by the way first generation of original haze was yielding huge heavy colas, according to info from old timers..

elanius said:

The pic of THH Maha Kala posted is actually from the middle of her bloom period, she went 14 weeks and has the metallic pine smell. I doubt there is skunk in these Hazes, but i understand the confusion, some of them are indeed faster with bit wider leafs, but as we know, there are fast sativas with wide leaf so that does not proves much.
Btw Maha Kala, from all my plants you picked the one i wanted to discuss She is one of two phenotypes that leave incense smell in the room. Specifically pine tree resin. Not the boswellia sacra tree (frankincense).

This is the same plant in the end of her cycle, she is still alive as a clone - Haze #16
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She is a beauty

Your mention her smells how about her taste and effect?

Btw don’t tell Tom about the Incense he gets upset


1luvbigherb

MAHA KALA said:

Im no purist. for me the smoke is more important than origin. if some skunkhaze would be better than THH I would grow it instead of THH, but it is not.. that´s why Im growing THH for personal use only. by the way first generation of original haze was yielding huge heavy colas, according to info from old timers..

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Colas Soo Heavy branches would snap

Don’t confuse that with dense tight stacked colas but just huge loose lumbo flowers

1luvbigherb

MAHA KALA said:

Im no purist. for me the smoke is more important than origin. if some skunkhaze would be better than THH I would grow it instead of THH, but it is not.. that´s why Im growing THH for personal use only. by the way first generation of original haze was yielding huge heavy colas, according to info from old timers..

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i hear you and that intersting to hear ive not tried thh haze or nevilles haze yet on my to do list for sure

window said:

I’d describe it as a strong, up high with an almost dreamy feeling, every thing was brighter, more vivid, sounds crisper like the volume had been turned up, life in stereo and technicolour!
I seriously would describe it, like a very light dose of lsd, it just had that feeling to it, but obviously no where near as powerful as the holy acid.

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great description, THH is cerebral. end of story. no detectable ceilling in 9 years of smoking it. Neville´s haze I let go, not as good as THH.

MadMac said:

Tom Hill Haze... if you prefer pure haze...
O-Haze is only available from seedsman as repro...
not easy to find a keeper
Nevilles Haze if the two above are unavailable...

have grow'n them all and to me THH is the best indoor haze.
M.

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listen to this man, he knows real haze. I saw his tfd OH, he crossed it with THH. why? to make it better

bigherb said:

Colas Soo Heavy branches would snap

Don’t confuse that with dense tight stacked colas but just huge loose lumbo flowers

1luvbigherb

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sure man, but look at seedsman haze, where it went? tom hill haze line still can put out some nice sized lumbo colas, not so huge as F1 OH, of course.

bigherb said:

She is a beauty

Your mention her smells how about her taste and effect?

Btw don’t tell Tom about the Incense he gets upset


1luvbigherb

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Might be a misunderstanding when Tom claimed there is no incense. Does he said specifically incense in general, or was he talking about frankincense? Anyway, people see and sense things differently, just my observation with the pine tree resin smell.

How is her taste? I would say again pine with fruity notes of yellow thai mango, but the pine is the most dominant element. Its great taste as well as the smell - intoxicating sharp pines.
She is very strong, one of the strongest from my run (13 females). Euphoric, mesmerizing, trippy - i have had a great time with her but in the end, she was not my favorite. I realized the best was the "weakest" Haze.

It is very difficult to properly judge the effect and potency of Haze. When i tested them i used 0.05 g as an initial sample. With this dose Haze #24 was the weakest of my favorite Hazes. With higher dosage the potency increased of course, the ceiling is very high to none. But 2 years ago i run her outdoors as a light dep and she is some of the best, if not the best weed i have ever smoked. Smooth, clear, calm, dreamy and most importantly the effect is like mild mushroom ride, very trippy high that last for many hours and change your entire day. You feel replenished, re-energized, clear, centered and calm. A medicine for body and mind. No other Hazes were as good as her, i have no idea what happened that she changed so much under the sun. I have once smoked a big bowl of her and did not moved for good 30 minutes from the spot. Eyes closed, mind opened wide.

I have made a full melt dry sift from the rest of the Haze phenotypes that did not make the selection, cured for 2 years. The high from this hash was the same if not better as my best Haze #24. All the hazes combined give a trippy high as well.

elanius said:

Might be a misunderstanding when Tom claimed there is no incense. Does he said specifically incense in general, or was he talking about frankincense? Anyway, people see and sense things differently, just my observation with the pine tree resin smell.

How is her taste? I would say again pine with fruity notes of yellow thai mango, but the pine is the most dominant element. Its great taste as well as the smell - intoxicating sharp pines.
She is very strong, one of the strongest from my run (13 females). Euphoric, mesmerizing, trippy - i have had a great time with her but in the end, she was not my favorite. I realized the best was the "weakest" Haze.

It is very difficult to properly judge the effect and potency of Haze. When i tested them i used 0.05 g as an initial sample. With this dose Haze #24 was the weakest of my favorite Hazes. With higher dosage the potency increased of course, the ceiling is very high to none. But 2 years ago i run her outdoors as a light dep and she is some of the best, if not the best weed i have ever smoked. Smooth, clear, calm, dreamy and most importantly the effect is like mild mushroom ride, very trippy high that last for many hours and change your entire day. You feel replenished, re-energized, clear, centered and calm. A medicine for body and mind. No other Hazes were as good as her, i have no idea what happened that she changed so much under the sun. I have once smoked a big bowl of her and did not moved for good 30 minutes from the spot. Eyes closed, mind opened wide.

I have made a full melt dry sift from the rest of the Haze phenotypes that did not make the selection, cured for 2 years. The high from this hash was the same if not better as my best Haze #24. All the hazes combined give a trippy high as well.
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many thx for sharing !!
beautiful THH girl you have there... by all the other girls... did you kill all males ?
have 12 girls running and some Sam O-Haze + seedsman O-haze ...
will be interesting to compare...
the year of the haze... it needs a comeback
M.

MadMac said:

many thx for sharing !!
beautiful THH girl you have there... by all the other girls... did you kill all males ?
have 12 girls running and some Sam O-Haze + seedsman O-haze ...
will be interesting to compare...
the year of the haze... it needs a comeback
M.

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I like your style

I’m curious to know what Sams OHaze you have is this private stock?

Please keep us posted on your progress

1luvbigherb

Anyone ever finish up the haze 5 from Sams Breeders Retail release?

Sure would be good since I think it was mostly haze.....

Even if someone finds a keeper from Seedsman Original Haze it is still different to the 14-16 weekers of Neville's Haze. And you can get 16weekers that are as cerebral as the OH only more potent.

Nevil used seed that was sold by Sam labeled 67-68-69' and all the Hazes Nevil found were from the seed before 70's. He also got pure haze seed that was labeled 70's and after but these plants Nevil thought they were Haze hybrids and not as good. Sam probably never grew the 67-68-69 seed according to his sayings and he is probably angry for selling this seed to Nevil because this is where the best Hazes come from in Amsterdam.

I've smoked both in multiple occasions and the Neville's Haze will make a room filled of Church and Catpiss and it will leave me in a state of paranoia where I will have to walk it off. The original haze was never that potent for me or at least I never found one and I smoked supposedly clones chosen from many plants. Yes the original haze is generally clearer but never as potent as the Nevs Haze for me and the OH it's never as churchy/frankincense as the NH. I believe the seeds that Sam used for his Hazes were from later dates and a bit different to the Nevil and they were never as good, we smoked Sams HazexSk why was it never as trippy or potent and churchy as the best NH ? Surely if he had better hazes he would use them and we would found superior plants in OHxSK and OH. I know Sam claims that he never tried to improve the OH but only to preserve it which kinda sounds like BS to me since he kept females haze clones and sold 1:1 matings too and also did try to improve the original haze by introducing new genes to it like Thai, but kudos to him for passing the seeds around.

I know people have different experience with NH and OH but that's my experience.


I am also not a purist and not a fanboy, I just care what people sell/give me and what I can find in those seeds. I don't care if it's from Nev or Sam or whoever...

bigherb said:

Are we gonna beat a dead horse

We can repost repeat rinse and dry

My opinion from info I received and info posted . A lot of minor notes I was told that make sense and add more doubt to other stories

Thing is this from my source second hand info from G . Sams didn’t get seeds from G .
R.L n J Sams has always spoke of . G and J are two different people R.L and G where not partners till a year or soo after he first made the Haze.

I assume Sams got his seeds from R.L .
R.L did get stock from G and The 69 stock was an abundance of seeds used for the duration of Haze legacy. Soo low germ rates are possible in 84 Because I’d assume the seeds weren’t well kept . But it blows my mind only 7 seeds germed out of thousands . With that said the dates of Haze stock from 70 71 72 Etc Seems like BS . Because G said that he used the same seeds stock for 10 years . I was told volunteers popped up , I assume seeds might have been made again from 70-80 . But story goes the same stock was used for the duration

If it was actually thousands of seeds Sams sold Nevil , I’d assume they were not all 69 stock .

Not trying to discredit anyone

Read my first post OHaze where is she , Nothing reminiscent or standout of a amazing Haze did I experience in Amsterdam. Why is great OHaze not more commonly held as cuts or in Coffeshops . I understand Now , but it still baffles me

Nevil put out great strains but , more than half of his catalog is Sams work . Those not from Sams are champion cuts Hp G13 NL5 . How could you not get something special from two special parents ?


1luvbigherb

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leet said:

Even if someone finds a keeper from Seedsman Original Haze it is still different to the 14-16 weekers of Neville's Haze. And you can get 16weekers that are as cerebral as the OH only more potent.

Nevil used seed that was sold by Sam labeled 67-68-69' and all the Hazes Nevil found were from the seed before 70's. He also got pure haze seed that was labeled 70's and after but these plants Nevil thought they were Haze hybrids and not as good. Sam probably never grew the 67-68-69 seed according to his sayings and he is probably angry for selling this seed to Nevil because this is where the best Hazes come from in Amsterdam.

I've smoked both in multiple occasions and the Neville's Haze will make a room filled of Church and Catpiss and it will leave me in a state of paranoia where I will have to walk it off. The original haze was never that potent for me or at least I never found one and I smoked supposedly clones chosen from many plants. Yes the original haze is generally clearer but never as potent as the Nevs Haze for me and the OH it's never as churchy/frankincense as the NH. I believe the seeds that Sam used for his Hazes were from later dates and a bit different to the Nevil and they were never as good, we smoked Sams HazexSk why was it never as trippy or potent and churchy as the best NH ? Surely if he had better hazes he would use them and we would found superior plants in OHxSK and OH. I know Sam claims that he never tried to improve the OH but only to preserve it which kinda sounds like BS to me since he kept females haze clones and sold 1:1 matings too and also did try to improve the original haze by introducing new genes to it like Thai, but kudos to him for passing the seeds around.

I know people have different experience with NH and OH but that's my experience.


I am also not a purist and not a fanboy, I just care what people sell/give me and what I can find in those seeds. I don't care if it's from Nev or Sam or whoever...

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Sup Unc

Great too see you posting , I miss your insight and opinions

It looks like things are goin well

This post was a few pages back

Both Thunk and Skunk Haze have reports of Frankincense . After all this time I ponder if Nevil actually used clones from Sams and none of those seeds germed . It was said in the past Nevil was given clones he admitted it but said they were crap . I’ve recently spoke with A source close to all on the holland scene and this is what he believes

If you read the above post of mine all the dates Nevil mentioned sounds like BS . 66-70 Etc . Neither Sams nor R.L. was around G in 68-69 or 70 I believe. One thing Nevil said that stuck to me was burning bush being an ancestor to this seed stock he got from Sams

Until Sams speaks / gives more specifics we can only assume from what both him and Nevil have said . But remember Sams mentions all Haze varieties come from his stock of 76 and later in response to my article that He was the only one with un hybridized Haze stock

In Reference to the Frankincense it makes me smile to hear about it . It also makes me smile to remember DG post saying Nevil told her this is the keeper pheno and then HappHi responding saying that the description of pine and sandlewood was most reminiscent of the Gold pheno Of Original Haze

Why Sams still has touched on Incense / Frankincense till this Day is intriguing to me ( probably not to him lol )

1luvbigherb

Hey bigherb,

Whats up bro ? Well I have smoked Original Haze and yes there is frankincense in there too. I know they are similar, they smoke pretty much the same, but I still do believe that NH is more potent than the OH and the frankincense is more prelevant in the NH than the OH.

As far as the Haze story, I have no idea mate. We only know Sams story and Nevils story which are not really contradicting. It is only contradicting that Nevil said they were from a seedbag labeled 69' but Sam never disputed the fact that this wasnt true. Sam doesnt remember exactly what seeds these were and we have no reason to dispute that the seed Nevil got wasnt labeled as such. Also Sam doesn't remember if he gave him a female or a male clone, Nevil says he might have had a female clone and if it was, it was crap. That's what these people say.

I believe Sam had lots of haze seeds he had collected and labeled with years. He sold seeds that were labeled 67-68-69-70+ in the 80's so lets say at least 11 years and if it was 85' ( I remember he said 80s dont remember if he mentioned the exact years ) we are talking about 15 years old seed , maybe even more. Which sounds spot on for the seed germination Nevil had ( 7 out of 1000 ). He might have thought that these were the oldest seeds he had and he would probably wouldnt germinate them or he thought the later seeds were better so he sold the old seed, or he needed money when he moved to holland, who knows mate. Don't forget Sam wasn't there from the beginning of the haze thing, the guys were growing and collecting seed for many years before Sam met them and then he had access and also contributed to these seeds... thats the story. It doens't necessarily mean that Sam was there in 69... Nevil is claiming that Sam probably didnt even smoke the 69 Haze and he only knows the haze from 74 and later.

Now I don't know the story behind the Original Haze brothers, I only know what Sam said and Nev said and for me their stories match perfectly and dont contradict themselves.

Either way, I am not here for the stories but for the good buds and yes I believe the Seedsman Original Haze I smoked is similar yet different to the Nevilles Haze, I find the Original haze clearer and less potent than the Nevilles Haze and I find more frankincense in the Nevs Haze. Maybe there is a better plant in the Original Haze but so far I havent tried it/found it. I do find the Original Haze I smoked very special though and I wouldnt mind AT all to have it in my garden. Just sharing my experience...


For all I know Nev and Sam could be the same person or the DEA or pals to expertly market their strains. Stories are good for people that dont have anything better to do but they are just that, stories.


Peace
l33t


PS Who is this Holland source you speak of ? It doesn't matter what someone believes, you either know or you don't know and just speculate..

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=336271&page=26

Mount Zion grew out the haze 5 x skunk haze.

I did as well but they were not to my liking, they were decent, euhporic and feel good but there just was something off with them, took about 14 weeks, didn't stretch for a damn at all which was a good aspect. Just was more blah than anything for my tastes.

Limeygreen said:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=336271&page=26

Mount Zion grew out the haze 5 x skunk haze.

I did as well but they were not to my liking, they were decent, euhporic and feel good but there just was something off with them, took about 14 weeks, didn't stretch for a damn at all which was a good aspect. Just was more blah than anything for my tastes.

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same here...
really nothing special like the skunk x o-haze... other crosses are much better ... flavour high and taste... don't waste time with it...
M.:Tiphat:

haze talk and all the tales...

haze talk and all the tales...

bigherb said:

I like your style

I’m curious to know what Sams OHaze you have is this private stock?

Please keep us posted on your progress

1luvbigherb

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thx master haze
well i will show you the differences if there any between all the true haze... no hybrid fuckup...
thx for always great and easy explanation...

how often did you repeat the story?
and still some rushing in this thread and repeat the bullshit... haha
so funny sometimes... and everybody knows the true story lol
i know some dutch friends who hold the org. haze A & C lady's...
since the 90' when New selected the haze from cuttings he got from Sam! they gonna kept intact in holland...

i'll don't want to go into detail... but you'r the only one who tried to find the truth... all other just blah blah blah... non of them read what is written and proofed long time...

and than this frankincense talk... oh dear... what's so special about the high? Nothing... it's only the smell to impress other people...

to me only the high count...whatever smell she has... doesn't matter... the high is what makes a strain...

btw. i was in the netherland in the 90'... i never did like the Nevilles Haze... it's too dark... and the comedown is indica like... not my stuff
i've tried last year a Neville again... great plant great bud's but not my high... Tom Hill Haze is much much better... also better than the most o-haze .... and o-haze is long gone... TFD O-Haze is a hybrid...
Tom did until now the best selection to me... the high from some is absolute outstanding... long lasting... some are really psychedelic ...
and it's not a hybrid as some still want to say...

i'll ask myself all time if some of these bigmouth have ever grow a haze till end... these knowitall sucks often and make real discussions impossible ... if you ask show me a picture... then they leave the discussion or come back with bullshit ;-)
there are still just a few who finished a haze properly indoors...
i only listen to this people... because you have to finish a haze to talk about ...
thx
M.

leet said:

Even if someone finds a keeper from Seedsman Original Haze it is still different to the 14-16 weekers of Neville's Haze. And you can get 16weekers that are as cerebral as the OH only more potent.

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That's like comparing apples and oranges.

NH is an indica/sativa hybrid, while OH is a pure sativa.
Take your best Seedsman OH and cross it with the NL5 cut used in the A5, NH etc and you will have the same kind of potency.


Why always neglect the role of the NL5 cut in these crosses?

Sure,just with the correct selection...Indica influence can be minimum.

Yo Sammy Nevilles https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-243526/ace-seeds/nevils-haze-late-80s

Still would love to try pure haze.

Mac do you also have experience with Old Timers Haze?

Syd Barrett said:

Mac do you also have experience with Old Timers Haze?

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yep i got some from Charly and Ace later... interesting expression also... but it flowers longer than o-haze... and you have to dig deep into to find a special one that fit's your needs... thought about crossing with her but ... too long flowering... and too much work afterwards to get a good result... o-haze is better ... seedsman was the last who sold o-haze... lot's of interesting phenotypes where found... like JohnnyChicago flat stem or Yaxu's seedsman o-haze outdoors and some other that have showed it here and there... to me the ot-haze is sometime before Sam worked with the haze... there is some relationship but it misses also maybe the thai and the south indian??? to me yes... that makes the difference... that brings me back to THH ... tom got a cut from Posi labeled haze#19 ... that was the one he picked from a bunch... he started with one cut... and selected toward the thai leaning side hence the leaf's ... i have some pure thais now running and you can really see some similarities... and finally Nevilles Haze is not a pure haze... it's a hybrid...OT-haze o-haze and tom hill haze are the only pure i know.

12 THH girls from cut... for testing


THH flower with seeds






one of the 13 males i used... it's a very potent dude


get hazed
M.

Maybe I'm not the only one to believe in the presence of the Thai (but for me ot-haze also has Thai, maybe he is only Thai-Colombian without an Indian? I don't know, I never raised him properly to know it)
Just my point of view.....