Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

Okay here goes my ordeal, any input would be helpful.
I am currently battling root aphids, and have been so for the past few weeks now, on and off with a mixture of bayer tree and shrub, azamax, SM90 and Hygrozyme. My plants are very small. Clones from the plants I ran last round that I would like to keep.
I am in the process of getting ready to move my grow to another place. I am planning on buying new tents and trashing these. I want to try to start the grow off sterile. I am not sure what to do about my hoods, ballast, grow trays and reservoirs. I was thinking maybe I would store my hoods and ballast in a garbage bag zipped up with a NPS inside, hopefully it will prevent them from carrying over any stray aphids. I guess I will also bleach down my tables again. They still have a little bit of root residue that I amj not sure whether it will attract aphids. The Rezs have already been bleached, not sure what to do other than keep them zipped up in the tent with a couple of NPS.
As far as these clones go, I would really like to keep them and hopefully transfer them bug free. They are still early on in veg and only in red solo cups so not that big of a pot. I just actually took a peak at the root zone, and it seems to be improving and I dont see any crawlers down there. I was thinking if I continue this process for the next week or so, and then moved my plants right after a drenching in the root zone, and misting the plant itself with an azamax sm90 solution, would be enough to atleast save the plants and transfer them sterile and bug free. If its really not feasable then I will scrap it and start new seeds when I move.
One more question, should I be worried about these f*ckers traveling on my clothes or my grow equipment???

zor said:

Some subspecies have proliferated in indoor gardens for the last few years.. I did not come up with this theory. People with WAY more knowledge than both of us have come up with this. So everyone is nitwit according to you.



So again, please define 'dirt'. Some 'soil' mixes have coco in them. Do the aphids know not to touch these now? How bout ocean forest soil with things like crab meal? Do aphids not touch this becuase they don't grow in crabs?

How about rockwool? last i heard rockwool is not a natural habitat of any insect yet they love to infect it.

Please educate us 'nitwits'.

Furthermore, flying aphids lay eggs. If you dont agree with this, then tell us all why the uni of cal davis is doin studies on how to kill the aphid eggs? Why go through all the trouble when the eggs dont exist?



BS story? how bout a BS story about aphids that can't lay eggs, don't adapt to chemical pestisides, only proliferate in mediums that is made up of this mysterious 'dirt'.

Its hilarious cuz you have showed YOUR mentality through your ridiculous posts and belittling. Seriously, let the grown ups talk about aphids and you go practice your repeated mantras on your own. This thread is polluted with it.

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I think we have already established that you are a troll and a moron who is obsessed with me. You came up with the moronic post about an "indoor species" of root aphids, which is just laughable. And now you want to blame it on "People with WAY more knowledge than both of us have come up with this. So everyone is nitwit according to you." Look a sack of nails has more knowledge than you, troll boy. And no, "everyone" is not a nitwit, but you certainly do redefine the concept of nitwit.
And now you are back to lying again in your desperation to "win" an argument. Never did I say that some species of RAs don't lay eggs.
As I've stated, RAs give live birth, and some types also lay eggs. Some species. This has been posted several times, but I can see your reading comprehension is low, as is your IQ.
I have also explained that root aphids in nature live in soil, and the plants that live in it. Now if you take those plants and put them in rockwool, coco, or hydro, they will be living there also. But they do not live in rockwool, coco, or water that has no "infected" plants in it. This has been explained over and over again, but your tiny brain fails to grasp it. Or you are so fucked up that your comprehension is that of a chimp. Root aphids don't live in rockwool, but they do live on the plants that you put in rockwool. You seem incapable of grasping that fact. And that's because you are an idiot, or are just so stoned that you are babbling incoherently, or both. All you have "contributed" to this thread is a bunch of lies, namely that there is an "indoor" species of RA. LOL! That is so stupid I can't help but laugh every time i think about it. And you also posted the lie that sn203 kills RAs, WHICH IT DOESN'T.
So, I think you should get together with that other pinhead cyat, and discuss the merits of using disulfoton, a deadly poison, on your plants. I don't think it could damage you any more than you already are. Just don't be recommending it to others who might stumble on your post and think that you actually know something. You know how to make a fool of yourself, that is for sure.
"Indoor root aphids"....LMFAO @ you, fool.

so I would be in the clear keep an open bag of unused hydroton that was in a room with a crop that had root aphids? also I wouldnt have to worry about my trays or res or light fixtures.

smokadepep said:

Okay here goes my ordeal, any input would be helpful.
I am currently battling root aphids, and have been so for the past few weeks now, on and off with a mixture of bayer tree and shrub, azamax, SM90 and Hygrozyme. My plants are very small. Clones from the plants I ran last round that I would like to keep.
I am in the process of getting ready to move my grow to another place. I am planning on buying new tents and trashing these. I want to try to start the grow off sterile. I am not sure what to do about my hoods, ballast, grow trays and reservoirs. I was thinking maybe I would store my hoods and ballast in a garbage bag zipped up with a NPS inside, hopefully it will prevent them from carrying over any stray aphids. I guess I will also bleach down my tables again. They still have a little bit of root residue that I amj not sure whether it will attract aphids. The Rezs have already been bleached, not sure what to do other than keep them zipped up in the tent with a couple of NPS.
As far as these clones go, I would really like to keep them and hopefully transfer them bug free. They are still early on in veg and only in red solo cups so not that big of a pot. I just actually took a peak at the root zone, and it seems to be improving and I dont see any crawlers down there. I was thinking if I continue this process for the next week or so, and then moved my plants right after a drenching in the root zone, and misting the plant itself with an azamax sm90 solution, would be enough to atleast save the plants and transfer them sterile and bug free. If its really not feasable then I will scrap it and start new seeds when I move.
One more question, should I be worried about these f*ckers traveling on my clothes or my grow equipment???

Click to expand...

You can move your clones if they are RA free. Treatment should do that. Equipment, you can sterilize and you might consider using heat after sterilizing. One of the problems with RAs that hasn't had much discussion here is that RAs are disease vectors. They transmit viruses, and once those viruses get in your environment, you can NEVER get rid of them. That's why some people who get RAs still have plants with problems even after treatment. This happened to me. Growspace becomes completely useless and the only solution is to move and get all new equipment. So, that's why I advise, if you are going to move, put all your equipment in high heat. Either in ovens, or in a car parked in the sun with windows closed (depending where you live) so that the temperature gets over 130-14- degrees for hours. This is the only thing that will kill viruses. You can also disinfect with Physan 20 , both equipment and plants. Your body fights off viruses with heat. That's why you get a temperature when you are sick. 140 degrees is going to kill viruses, if there are any. If you think RAs are a nightmare, they are nothing compared to the viruses that they transmit.
As far as can they get on your clothes, dogs, etc? Yes. They can hitch a ride. But if they are in your area, and you live in a warm climate, chances are they will be in your backyard/neighborhood where you move to anyway, unless you move to a cold climate.
Hygrozyme implies that you are in hydro, which makes them much harder to get rid of.
I personally would ditch the hydro and switch to hempy buckets. They are very simple and cheap to make, high yielding, and no pumps/recirculating. Check out the hempy bucket thread. A 5 gallon hempy bucket with a 2 month veg, topping twice, will yield huge plants, and since they use mostly perlite, you will never see a fungus gnat, and any RAs will be easy to treat. Recirculating systems just recirculate RA babies and eggs through the system, so they keep coming back. Hempy buckets are the bomb. Surprised more people don't use them.

Plants are in soil, using the hygrozyme to break down any dead roots caused from aphids and prevent root rot.
About the carrying viruses, My tables have been out of use for a couple of months now, pre infestation actually, because I switched to soil my last grow. I could re bleach them, I am sure this will take care of any viruses. This doesn't matter much with my light fixtures and ballast since they dont come in contact the way a virus would need to transmit. As far as the Hydroton, I would rather just drop the 40 on a new 50l bag instead of risking a virus. I am just worried about carrying them when I move. I may just set up, bug bomb, then get started with my seedlings. I have them already popping at a friends house.
And about the hempy buckets, I like to do more plants less veg instead of the other way. I use 3x3 trays and fill 6 inch net pots with a hydroton\Silica stone mix. I will usually run 9 to 12 plants with a 3 week veg topped once, yield pretty good. Best was close to 1.5Lbs but usually a pound at least under a 600 watter.

That sounds cool.
Just FYI, viruses are airborne, and can get on anything. They can live for years on almost any surface. That's why they are so hard to get rid of. TMV is probably the most well known but there are others.
Yeah, I would ditch any medium that has had RAs.
Not worth using it over again.
Just for laughs, try one small hempy bucket, 1 or 2 gallons, with same veg time/topping and see which yields better
That's a good yield you're getting with 600 watts.
I'm a little confused though.
You said plants are in soil, but you use hydroton and netpots with a rez.
So how does that work/
Is this a recirculating system?

I usually use my system, but these past rounds I switched to soil to try and save on maintenance, go figure. I usually just keep mothers in soil. I would love to try hempy buckets, less maintenance, less mess, the only thing I am uncertain is how many I could fit in the 3x2 area in my veg chamber, and are they easy to transfer across to the flower tent?

NO IMID!!!

NO IMID!!!

acephate...HINT: Read first paragraph under "Results" on 2nd page.

http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/root-aphid-control-article.pdf

Acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic...like Imid, which has a soil half life of 26.5-229 days.

See report....http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf

First, allow me to apologize for not publishing my results earlier...I really didn't want to deal with anymore of RetroGrow's one-trick-pony rants....like last time (remember when I tried to inject some ideas about insecticidal resistance and rotating insecticides with different "modes of operation"????, since my answer was not Imid...we all know how that discussion went...instead of discussing experiences and facts--my intellect was called into question by a one-trick-pony-dipshit)...sorry, those games do not interest me.

BTW....for those that want to be enlightened about resistance management and "modes of operation" of pesticides (a notion that RetroGrow still disputes), then take a look at Table 2 on page 4 of the following paper. The author is the respected entomologist Raymond Cloyd and has lots material on the internet.

http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/library/entml2/mf2905.pdf

Now...my RA regime with ZERO Imid:
I am indoor, organic based in soil/soiless (custom peat mix) and this works for me 100%...veg and flower. Orthene 97 pellets is the poison I selected with the active ingredient Acephate (97.4% and is $20 for 0.773 pound container at the farm supply)....the maximum rate for aphids on tobacco is 3/4 lb per acre.

I use 50 ml of Stock Solution to make the Diluted Solution in a 6 gallon food service bucket...and based on my calculations, each plant will retain about 0.3405 grams of Orthene (in the soil), which is usually less than 20% of the suggested application rate for most crops.

Stock Solution (will make 60 gallons of Diluted Mix) and can be stored:
1. Fill 500 ml water bottle half full with RO water.
2. Add 54.4 grams of Orthene.
3. Shake until solution is clear then add water to fill bottle to 500 ml mark.

Diluted Mix:
1. Add 3-4 gallons of RO water to 6 gallon bucket
2. Add 50 ml of stock solution (equiv to 5.44 grams of Orthene)
3. Add remaining water and mix well

Soil Dunk:
The objective is to submerge and soak 100% of the plant rootball, the soil, the container, and about the first 1-2 inches of plant stalk in acephate solution for 5-10 minutes. The flooding should be BOTTOM up--not TOP down, it seems that soil critters scamper away from threats in the opposite direction...in this case to the surface and away from the submerged bottom...and rootball. (If the soil top is treated first, critters will bury themselves into the soil and rootball, and some may escape treatment--due to air pockets). For me, I use a rubbermaid 15-20 gallon trash to treat my 3-5 gallon containers and place inside an upside down container to elevate the plant so its leaves do not get wet with acephate (even though the strength of the Diluted Mix is less than the rate which the big guns foliar spray tobacco and veggies).
1. Fill trash can 1/4 full with Diluted Mix.
2. Carefully place container in trash can with Diluted Mix, holding the sides of the plant until the container gains buoyancy, and it will eventually submerge naturally (do not force or expedite).
3. Add more Diluted Mix until the soil top and 1-2 inches of the main stalk is underwater.
4. Wait....and with a flashlight you can see all floating RAs gasping for life. I would wait 10 minutes even 15 mins....(I even did a fatty and forgot and let one plant soak for an hour plus...no issues)
5. Drain....my trick is to do the dunking near the sink and so I can capture some of the good clear run off while holding the container over the trash can (still good poison to use) and then move it so it can finish draining, just like when flushing.
6. After drained, dust the soil top generously with diatomaceous earth (Fossil Flour is foodgrade equivalent and super cheap at feedstores)...it functions as a barrier for crawly critters, helps keep the top inch of soil drier, and the extra silica, calcium and other minerals are good for the plant.
7. Repeat and add fresh Diluted Solution as needed.
8. I do not flush...since the half life is so tiny--no reason....according the above report, "Acephate’s metabolites are very
weakly adsorbed to the soil. They will be readily leached but will be quickly degraded in the soil.

Should the soil be dry....I discovered if you "pre-wet" the soil first (watering 6-18 hours before treatment seems to work great for me) the plants seem to absorb less Diluted Solution...conversely, if you want the plant to consume maximum amount of poison--then drench when the soil is dry and skip watering for that day.

BTW...Orthene does have a chem-like odor, but it dissipates within hours with ZERO residual aroma.

Safe to use in flower...why not?

Cheers!

Hey RetroGrow, I for one appreciate the help and knowledge you share with others. I'd like to ask you about imid, before reading through this long topic I already bought the tree and shrub. How many ml per gallon would you recommend using? I wonder when the ra's mature to the point of flying if they still give birth to live young, or if they may lay eggs at that point?

RetroGrow said:

I have also explained that root aphids in nature live in soil, and the plants that live in it. Now if you take those plants and put them in rockwool, coco, or hydro, they will be living there also. But they do not live in rockwool, coco, or water that has no "infected" plants in it. This has bee explained over and over again, but your tiny brain fails to grasp it.

Click to expand...

What i've been asking over and over is why a bag of coco cannot be infected by an aphid in a hydro store or even sitting outside waiting to be bagged up. And still you have not explained it other than 'OMG thats so stupid'. Fine, if its ridiculous, it should be easy to explain your opinion regarding matter without being an ass.

Yes, aphids naturally live in 'soil'. We all agree with this. However, the question is whether or not they can contaminate a bag of coco while its sitting in a warehouse or hydro store. Many believe the answer is yes. You seem to think no, but have yet to explain why this cross contamination is not possible other than pointing your own conclusion as your 'reasoning'
[/quote]

All you have "contributed" to this thread is a bunch of lies, namely that there is an "indoor" species of RA. LOL! That is so stupid I can't help but laugh every time i think about it.

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yes, you have your 'omg thats ludicrous' argument well documented. Why not explain why, this is not possible for aphids to adapt to indoor gardens for those of us not as gifted as you. Again, educate and explain, as opposed to ridiculing.

And you also posted the lie that sn203 kills RAs, WHICH IT DOESN'T.

Click to expand...

i shared my experience with a sample of sn203 in a 4 gallon hydro tub and it worked for me. No where do i claim this will always work. Nor would i accuse someone of lying if they claimed it didnt work for them. If you had experience with sn203, what is it?

Its hilarious, this reminds me of years ago on OG when malibu had his c13 cabinet thread going. Simon came along and discussed some enhancements/drawbacks to malibu's design and malibu ended up having a hissy fit just like retro grow.

bluenorth said:

Hey RetroGrow, I for one appreciate the help and knowledge you share with others. I'd like to ask you about imid, before reading through this long topic I already bought the tree and shrub. How many ml per gallon would you recommend using? I wonder when the ra's mature to the point of flying if they still give birth to live young, or if they may lay eggs at that point?

Click to expand...

Read post #1254 where RetroGrow clearly states that Tree and Shrub is the wrong kind of Imid.

Crawlers give live birth. Fliers lay eggs.

Good luck.

RetroGrow said:

My own belief is that the RAs come from soil, where they live.
I have been checking new bags of coco with a microscope, and have found nothing, although I do not dismiss the possibility.

Click to expand...

Post #1228
You do dismiss the possibility now though, right Retro? Cause every time zor brings up the possibility that RA's might be in coco you call him a fucking idiot. You might want to go back and edit that post to fit your new agenda. Asshole.

Hey Dupp

Hey Dupp

F. Dupp said:

Read post #1254 where RetroGrow clearly states that Tree and Shrub is the wrong kind of Imid.

Crawlers give live birth. Fliers lay eggs.

Good luck.

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Thanks for the reply.The reason I asked is because of this pic.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=32728
I don't know if you can see it, but it's stuck on it's back and looks fatter, like an aphid. In it's death struggle a dozen eggs popped out. I'm not concerned about overdoing it with chemicals because these clones with be grown to mothers So they will be vegged for 4 months, cut's will be vegged for 2 months and another 2 months flowering. If I was to do a couple 20ml per gallon soaks in promix I'll feel okay smoking it's offspring like a year from now.

RetroGrow said:

You made the right choice!
Tree & Shrub is for trees and shrubs.
Also, Bayer Advanced Complete is good for our purposes.
By the way, Citrus or Complete can be used in early to mid flower.
If you read the label, it gives times that it can be applied to fruits & vegetables for human consumption, ranging from 7-21 days before harvest.
If you don't treat the ones in flower, they will spread and re-infect other plants in veg.
You really have to eliminate them completely from your environment, or you won't break the cycle.
Pyrethrins do nothing against RAs.

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Post #1352

Pyrethrins do nothing against RAs?! Pyrethrins wiped out my infestation INSTANTLY.

Who is spreading misinformation, RetroGrow? YOU ARE.
Who is a fucking moron, RetroGrow? YOU ARE.
Who is twisting the truth RetroGrow? YOU ARE.

Dont ever call me a liar again. Fuck you and your neg rep. Negative rep from you is positive as far as Im concerned.

The day I stopped listening to you was the day I wiped out my root aphids.

You had better go back and do alot of editing, after reading back the last 12 pages or so, you just look like a whiney little bitch who pitches a fit eveytime someone disagrees with her.

bluenorth said:

Thanks for the reply.The reason I asked is because of this pic.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=32728
I don't know if you can see it, but it's stuck on it's back and looks fatter, like an aphid. In it's death struggle a dozen eggs popped out. I'm not concerned about overdoing it with chemicals because these clones with be grown to mothers So they will be vegged for 4 months, cut's will be vegged for 2 months and another 2 months flowering. If I was to do a couple 20ml per gallon soaks in promix I'll feel okay smoking it's offspring like a year from now.

Click to expand...

I cant tell much from that picture. Whatever it is, its definately laying some eggs. I can only recommend using Evergreen. Imid didnt work for me, but Im in hydro.

It was hard enough trying to smuggle in bayer to my country. I don't where to start trying to get Evergreen, Any form of pesticide, natural or not will never make it past customs.

My fight goes on...Rotating Bayer,Bontanigard,60-6. The fliers carry the pupa close to there chests At Least that's what it looks like. I think they get them from the crawlers, gather them up deposit, then get loaded up again? Just a theory not sure how their reproductive cycle goes. Harvests are heavy though so i think im winning the fight!

F. Dupp said:

Post #1352

Pyrethrins do nothing against RAs?! Pyrethrins wiped out my infestation INSTANTLY.

Who is spreading misinformation, RetroGrow? YOU ARE.
Who is a fucking moron, RetroGrow? YOU ARE.
Who is twisting the truth RetroGrow? YOU ARE.

Dont ever call me a liar again. Fuck you and your neg rep. Negative rep from you is positive as far as Im concerned.

The day I stopped listening to you was the day I wiped out my root aphids.

You had better go back and do alot of editing, after reading back the last 12 pages or so, you just look like a whiney little bitch who pitches a fit eveytime someone disagrees with her.

Click to expand...

Ooooh....that hurts.....NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, I don't give a rat's ass what a liar like you says. You have been blaming your failure on me. Not my fault you fucked up. But keep spreading your disinformation along with your other two pinheaded friends. Yeah, put cyat's deadly poison on your plants if you want. But don't pretend that you didn't agree with him and encourage him, because you did. So maybe now you can go back and edit those posts, but I have no intention of editing anything. You are an angry drunk, and I could care less about you're reputation, because you don't have any. But anytime you or anyone else attempts to spread disinformation or dangerous information, like cyat did and you agreed with, I will continue to call them out.
And I would be more disappointed if you agreed with me, because that would make me a moron too.
Have a nice day and keep spreading the BS.
I know it's important for you to be "right" even when you are wrong.
Me, I'm just here trying to help people, just like I tried to help you. You have zero credibility with me, so I could care less what you say or think.

Critter said:

My fight goes on...Rotating Bayer,Bontanigard,60-6. The fliers carry the pupa close to there chests At Least that's what it looks like. I think they get them from the crawlers, gather them up deposit, then get loaded up again? Just a theory not sure how their reproductive cycle goes. Harvests are heavy though so i think im winning the fight!

Click to expand...

It sounds like you have the ones inside your room under control as long as plants are thriving.
But I think you need to take care of the ones outside. They are probably where the fliers come from. They hone right in on your plants with exceptional sense of smell. I would hit your outside planters/garden with a high dose of imid and get them under control, otherwise they will keep getting in to your garden.

zor said:

What i've been asking over and over is why a bag of coco cannot be infected by an aphid in a hydro store or even sitting outside waiting to be bagged up. And still you have not explained it other than 'OMG thats so stupid'. Fine, if its ridiculous, it should be easy to explain your opinion regarding matter without being an ass.

Yes, aphids naturally live in 'soil'. We all agree with this. However, the question is whether or not they can contaminate a bag of coco while its sitting in a warehouse or hydro store. Many believe the answer is yes. You seem to think no, but have yet to explain why this cross contamination is not possible other than pointing your own conclusion as your 'reasoning'

Click to expand...

yes, you have your 'omg thats ludicrous' argument well documented. Why not explain why, this is not possible for aphids to adapt to indoor gardens for those of us not as gifted as you. Again, educate and explain, as opposed to ridiculing.



i shared my experience with a sample of sn203 in a 4 gallon hydro tub and it worked for me. No where do i claim this will always work. Nor would i accuse someone of lying if they claimed it didnt work for them. If you had experience with sn203, what is it?

Its hilarious, this reminds me of years ago on OG when malibu had his c13 cabinet thread going. Simon came along and discussed some enhancements/drawbacks to malibu's design and malibu ended up having a hissy fit just like retro grow.[/QUOTE]

Since we've already been over this, I will answer your question with a question:
Do RAs in hydro come from water contaminated with RAs?
And again, there is no such thing as an indoor species of RAs.
There are many different species of RAs, and 100% of them evolved outdoors and get into your home one way or another.