Master Stony
New member
sounds like an internet gangster to me
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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
sounds like an internet gangster to me
Everything I have ever said on this board is here in writing. Show me where I lied, numbnuts. What the fuck do I even have to lie about? What would be my motivation for lying?
All anybody needs to do is read the last 10 pages of this thread to see what a bitch you are. You have attacked everyone who doesnt agree with your "Imid kills root aphids. End of story" bit.
Ya, you tried to help me, I will give you credit for that. BUT, when your advice didnt work for me and I used another method that did work, you started trying to discredit me and calling me a liar and shit. You have attacked like 10 different people in the last 10 pages of this thread. Most of them backed right down, or just left the thread altogether. I dont fuckin do that, especially when you start calling me a liar.
I tried to be civil with you and I tried to keep the focus on killing root aphids, but you just dont know when to quit, man.
There's nothing "wrong" with Tree & Shrub.
It's just a higher concentration of imid, so it lasts longer in the soil, so you would not want to use it in flower, hence my recommendation of Bayer Complete, which is .72 % imid. The Citrus, Fruit and Vegetable is .22% imid. It's made for edibles so would be good in flower. However you can dilute it to any strength you want. So it really depends on weather or not you are in flower. If you're not in flower it's up to you what strength you want to use. .72 % worked for me in veg.
Also there are two types of Tree & Shrub that are of different strengths. One says "Merit" on the label. If you go to Bayer's website, they list all of them, with pictures of the labels that you can magnify, and they show the strengths. It all depends on how big your garden is and how much you need. If you're in a greenhouse/whare house, and need a lot,get the Merit. So whatever they recommend on the label, you could try half strength of that and it should be good, if you have the "regular" strength of Tree & Shrub. The other stronger one would need more dilution. I'm guessing you have the "regular" type, as the other one is really expensive and comes by the gallon.
There are lots of different types of RAs.
Some give live birth, and some lay eggs.
If you have fliers, put up some sticky traps.
You can make hempy buckets any size you want
Anywhere from 5 gallon Homer bucket down to a 20 oz. solo cup. But a 2 litre soda bottle would work good in a small place. Just drill a single hole 2 inches from the bottom. That is your run off hole. Fill bucket with 80% perlite/20% vermiculite or substitute coco for vermiculite if you can't get it.
Water daily until run off from hole. Keeps a two inch rez on the bottom, but completely passive. No pumps and very easy. Perlite containers are light and bugs don't like perlite. Very prolific growth with this method and the simplest method.
Stroke of genius by Hempy. You can see through bottom of soda bottles to check for pests, but cover bottles with a sleeve of some sort to block light when not inspecting. I would say you could get 10-16 of them in your space, depending how you space them. Hempys are the easiest way to grow with high yield.
Perlite is a pleasure to grow in and I haven't seen a single fungus gnat when I used it.
OK IVE SPENT THE LAST 30 MINUTES JUST TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT TO EDIT FROM THIS THREAD. YOU GUYS HAVE RUINED IT . ANYMORE FIGHTING HERE IM GOING TO BAN YOU.
I cant even decide where to begin to edit ..... it would just cut the last week right out of the thread probably. I give a warning to anyone coming to the this thread for recommendations that involve spraying or using any sort of chemicals. Research it yourselves .. dont just come here and take some stoners advice. I see chemicals being mentioned here that could be very dangerous. Please do some real research before putting anything on your grow. Remember the people giving you advice are fighting like a bunch of kids ... Im just saying
As to the people doing the arguing here ... Im watching this thread now ... youve been warned . Anymore personal insults and action will be takin.
Please use the reported post function if this thread gets off track again ... thanks.
I cant even decide where to begin to edit ..... it would just cut the last week right out of the thread probably. I give a warning to anyone coming to the this thread for recommendations that involve spraying or using any sort of chemicals. Research it yourselves .. dont just come here and take some stoners advice. I see chemicals being mentioned here that could be very dangerous. Please do some real research before putting anything on your grow. Remember the people giving you advice are fighting like a bunch of kids ... Im just saying
As to the people doing the arguing here ... Im watching this thread now ... youve been warned . Anymore personal insults and action will be takin.
Please use the reported post function if this thread gets off track again ... thanks.
overgrowit
Member
eclipse420, I have some acephate but it smells so bad i dont think i can use it indoors. Smells like a dead animal. Do you mix it outside or something?
That odor dissipates within 1 hour once it hits the soil. I do everything inside and do it with great haste. I know, when I did my test plant...I thought, shit this smell is going to be a waste of time, that chem odor is going to fuck things up for sure...I expected that chem odor to linger for days. Well, to my surprise--that acephate chem odor was gone the next morning.
Poisons I tested: Botanigard, Imidacloprid, Gamma-Cyhalothrin, Bifenthrin, Carbaryl, Beta Cyfluthrin, and Acephate; and I only use Acephate to combat RAs...Botanigard is too expensive but was the most effective.
BTW, I blow my trim...and for me, the plants treated with Imid the resulting BHO was more brown--not the usual yellow/gold. Once I started treating the plants with Acephate (no Imid) the nice yellow/gold color returned......interesting!
G
Guest3498
Got a quick question here pertaining to imid, if anyone knowledgeable could help it would be very much appreciated:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223278
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223278
Don't know the answer to that. If the bennies are not feeding on the plant, and most aren't, I would guess that it might not affect them.
However that's just a guess. No way tp prove it. Better to lose your bennies than your plants. You can always add more bennies. I use Great White also, but never really know if they are working or not. There are threads here that say bennies are a waste of money. Could be, but they seem to help the plants resist disease.
I can't prove this, but that is my observation. I think the trichoderma are helpful in that regard. I would add bennies a couple of weeks after imid treatment, or you could use Botaniguard ES, which is not a pesticide, but rather microorganisms that kill RAs. It is very effective.
However that's just a guess. No way tp prove it. Better to lose your bennies than your plants. You can always add more bennies. I use Great White also, but never really know if they are working or not. There are threads here that say bennies are a waste of money. Could be, but they seem to help the plants resist disease.
I can't prove this, but that is my observation. I think the trichoderma are helpful in that regard. I would add bennies a couple of weeks after imid treatment, or you could use Botaniguard ES, which is not a pesticide, but rather microorganisms that kill RAs. It is very effective.
overgrowit
Member
I am happy to report that my garden is finally coming back to life. The plants are all returning to a healthy green. It is amazing to watch them grow and i am astounded at how fast. I forgot what it was like to have healthy plants.
My flower garden has been total shit(due to "Micro" RAs) for the last 3 cycles and the veg garden was green but not growing fast and very touchy to any changes.
I tried using Merit 75 + spectracide at first which knocked down the numbers of RAs to a very small amount, but i couldnt get rid of them all together and the plants would still continue to go yellow at week 3-4 flower. I then tried botaniguard and a good dose of asprin once a week. I noticed that I could no longer see any RAs but the new plants would still go yellow.
Recently i have been using a small amount of Evergreen with each feeding and it seems the plants are doing better than ever. I wish I could say which chem did the magic, but I didnt have any control group to compare. I think it would be better to rotate different ones anyways, to be more effective and prevent creation of a resistant aphid
My flower garden has been total shit(due to "Micro" RAs) for the last 3 cycles and the veg garden was green but not growing fast and very touchy to any changes.
I tried using Merit 75 + spectracide at first which knocked down the numbers of RAs to a very small amount, but i couldnt get rid of them all together and the plants would still continue to go yellow at week 3-4 flower. I then tried botaniguard and a good dose of asprin once a week. I noticed that I could no longer see any RAs but the new plants would still go yellow.
Recently i have been using a small amount of Evergreen with each feeding and it seems the plants are doing better than ever. I wish I could say which chem did the magic, but I didnt have any control group to compare. I think it would be better to rotate different ones anyways, to be more effective and prevent creation of a resistant aphid
ballplayer 2
Active member
Glad to hear the garden is returning to vigorous growth overgrowit. I decided to scrap, not fight my infestation of Root Aphids. I cleared out over a month ago. I am now gathering supplies in preparation of battle with any stragglers. I also had the micro RA's. As well as some reddish/opaqish/brownish (???) mites, or possible larger root aphids. Could not tellexactly what they were, though I know they accompanied the micro RA's. Not sure if they were beneficial mites, or more mature RA's. All I know is they scared the snot outta me. Everything was bagged and taken off premises with as little disturbance as possible.
So far I have gathered Bayer Fruit and Citrus, Spectracide, and Botanigard. I am looking to add a pyrethrin formulation to my arsenal. I hope to avoid resistances by rotating my treatments. Perhaps I will look into Acephate given its relative inexpensiveness. What brand Acephate did you use overgrowit (Orthene?)?
I have a few questions I would like to pose:
1) Can anyone comment on the efficacy of other products with similar formulations to Evergreen? For instance there are other 6% Pyrethrin 60% PBO sprays by the trade names of Pyreth-It and ExciteR. I will probably go ahead with Evergreen, the others would just be easier to source.
2) What dilution level is to be used with 60-6 Pyrtehtrin formulation? I have read 2-3 ml per gallon with Evergreen.
3) For those fighting RA's, have you noticed any phytotoxicity or yellowing when using treatments. For example, do you get some yellowing for a day or two before the explosion of new growth once the pest pressure has been reduced?
4) I know Azamax has been discussed, and results have shown marginal effectiveness at best. A mild deterrence may be possible. Is it that Azamax's ingredient (Azadirachtin sp?) is simply too diluted (1.2%) or is its mode of action simply moot against an insect with the life cycle of an RA? I was wondering if perhaps the souped up versions of Azamax (Azatin XL, Ornazin, or Molt-X) may be effective in rotation with other treatments.
Thank you for your experience and time.
BP
So far I have gathered Bayer Fruit and Citrus, Spectracide, and Botanigard. I am looking to add a pyrethrin formulation to my arsenal. I hope to avoid resistances by rotating my treatments. Perhaps I will look into Acephate given its relative inexpensiveness. What brand Acephate did you use overgrowit (Orthene?)?
I have a few questions I would like to pose:
1) Can anyone comment on the efficacy of other products with similar formulations to Evergreen? For instance there are other 6% Pyrethrin 60% PBO sprays by the trade names of Pyreth-It and ExciteR. I will probably go ahead with Evergreen, the others would just be easier to source.
2) What dilution level is to be used with 60-6 Pyrtehtrin formulation? I have read 2-3 ml per gallon with Evergreen.
3) For those fighting RA's, have you noticed any phytotoxicity or yellowing when using treatments. For example, do you get some yellowing for a day or two before the explosion of new growth once the pest pressure has been reduced?
4) I know Azamax has been discussed, and results have shown marginal effectiveness at best. A mild deterrence may be possible. Is it that Azamax's ingredient (Azadirachtin sp?) is simply too diluted (1.2%) or is its mode of action simply moot against an insect with the life cycle of an RA? I was wondering if perhaps the souped up versions of Azamax (Azatin XL, Ornazin, or Molt-X) may be effective in rotation with other treatments.
Thank you for your experience and time.
BP
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Id find it highly unlikely that water coming out of a tap would have the RA's in there. But I don't see how that is relevant. My assertion is that its entirely possible for aphids to come in a bag of infected coco from the hydro store. You obviously disagree with this and have claimed that becuase aphids live in 'soil' in nature, they could not come from a bag of coco. Again, what about coco based 'soil' like roots organics that mixes organic 'soil' with coco?
Also, if you want to make an analogy to a hydro medium. the true analogy would be, that if you left a bucket of water exposed in an infected room, and then used that water for your hydro grow, you could have problems. make sense? Even though water is not what u call 'dirt',
ANY medium such as rockwool, coco, soil, moist styrofoam can be infected if other aphids are dropping eggs in there. I'm not sure how many more ways i can explain this. But just because aphids in nature come from 'dirt soil' (which i believe like in another thread you confuse 'dirt/soil' with 'organic material), it doesnt mean they can't infect a wet mop sitting in an infected room, EVEN THOUGH aphids do not live in wet mops in nature, they can infect one!
Your once again restating your claim as your explanation. Also, no one is saying that the 'indoor' SUB species of aphids can ONLY live indoors.
Cock roaches are insects that existed long before people had indoor environments for them to nestle and get cozy in. Just like aphids, they are outdoor insects, but they have thrived in indoor envirnments and adapted to them. If you take a nyc apt bujilding cock roach, it may not survive outdoors for many reasons. Especially if subsequent generations have been breeding indoors for a long time.
I had an infected plant that i chopped at the main stem and put it outside as an experiment ( i read about someoen doing this same thing with the same results). The plant was in a 3 gallon smart pot of coco full of roots and crawling with aphids. I put that plant outside at night time. by the next evening, they were all gone from the medium. Others have reported putting infected indoor plants outside with success.
Now the question is, where the heck did they go? what is it about these aphids that can't make it one night outdoors but thrive indoors? I have no idea, but the reason for sharing this stuff is so that we as a community can learn more. So again, let me plead with you, instead of ridiculing an idea, explain why its riduclous without using your assumption as the proof!
overgrowit
Member
ballplayer2, sorry to hear you had to scrap your grow. You will be better off though. I think the reddish ones are the larger adult version. Check out the new urban grower they show a micro-video off the dif stages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH2DJDHR5Q4
I only used acephate one time and it was the orthene brand, I wouldn't recommend mixing it indoors because the smell is almost unbearable when opening the can and mixing the powder. I hope I never have to dip into that shit again.
As for phytotoxicity, one of the things i noticed was that when i was treating with high doses of merit the plants would get worse not better. However, I was looking into different imid products and some of them say that it takes weeks for large plants to absorb the chemical into the plant. Foliar spray would be the best but i would have to use a full suit and resperator to feel ok about that.
I used evergreen at 2ml per gallon.
Zor, I have seen what u are talking about in plants that i have put outside and returned to good health.
Also I was reading a new high times that shows how they make large scale planting mixes and they use bulldozers to scoop coir, peat, or perlite out of huge piles outside on the ground. they dont say how it is sterilized but i bet they could be introduced if they werent taking care.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH2DJDHR5Q4
I only used acephate one time and it was the orthene brand, I wouldn't recommend mixing it indoors because the smell is almost unbearable when opening the can and mixing the powder. I hope I never have to dip into that shit again.
As for phytotoxicity, one of the things i noticed was that when i was treating with high doses of merit the plants would get worse not better. However, I was looking into different imid products and some of them say that it takes weeks for large plants to absorb the chemical into the plant. Foliar spray would be the best but i would have to use a full suit and resperator to feel ok about that.
I used evergreen at 2ml per gallon.
Zor, I have seen what u are talking about in plants that i have put outside and returned to good health.
Also I was reading a new high times that shows how they make large scale planting mixes and they use bulldozers to scoop coir, peat, or perlite out of huge piles outside on the ground. they dont say how it is sterilized but i bet they could be introduced if they werent taking care.
Ballplayer, you should seal up your room and hang some No Pest Strips in there until you start up again. If allowed to sit in there unventilated for a few days those should kill any stragglers.
From what I have read ExciteR is the same product as Evergreen but with a different name. I would use it at 2ml/gal or even less, unless after repeated use you see that it isnt working. It does fuck up your ph levels pretty bad at 2ml/gal. A bonus with using Evergreen and ExciteR is that the pyrethrin also repels bugs, so it should help limit reinfestation. I also had the micros, but I never saw a larger version of them besides their winged stage, although I did find it strange how much larger the winged version is than the crawling version. So maybe there is a growth stage before they sprout wings? Have you found fliers? If so, have you found that your fliers vary in size? Maybe you have more than one species of RA.
I definitely noticed phytotoxicity while using Imid. The more Imid I used the more sensitive my plants became, and it never completely stopped the RA's. It just seemed to slow them down and further deteriorate plant health.
Zor, as all who have had them have seen, these bugs defy most logic. They are incredibly fast for their size, they reproduce asexually (and nonstop), they can give live birth or lay eggs, they can sprout wings and fly away, and they can destroy a garden almost overnight. I even thought I saw them jump while in their crawler stage a couple of times. Anyone without a degree in entomology who tries to give you definitive answers on what these bugs can and cant do is full of shit (ie; Retrogrow). I found them crawling all over my television. Do RA's live on TV's in nature? Probably not, but they can hitch rides on people and end up anywhere, including bags of coco. Everything at the hydro shop is suspect because most of the shops clientele comes in contact with plants.
overgrowit, great video. It was scary as hell seeing those little fuckers again.
From what I have read ExciteR is the same product as Evergreen but with a different name. I would use it at 2ml/gal or even less, unless after repeated use you see that it isnt working. It does fuck up your ph levels pretty bad at 2ml/gal. A bonus with using Evergreen and ExciteR is that the pyrethrin also repels bugs, so it should help limit reinfestation. I also had the micros, but I never saw a larger version of them besides their winged stage, although I did find it strange how much larger the winged version is than the crawling version. So maybe there is a growth stage before they sprout wings? Have you found fliers? If so, have you found that your fliers vary in size? Maybe you have more than one species of RA.
I definitely noticed phytotoxicity while using Imid. The more Imid I used the more sensitive my plants became, and it never completely stopped the RA's. It just seemed to slow them down and further deteriorate plant health.
Zor, as all who have had them have seen, these bugs defy most logic. They are incredibly fast for their size, they reproduce asexually (and nonstop), they can give live birth or lay eggs, they can sprout wings and fly away, and they can destroy a garden almost overnight. I even thought I saw them jump while in their crawler stage a couple of times. Anyone without a degree in entomology who tries to give you definitive answers on what these bugs can and cant do is full of shit (ie; Retrogrow). I found them crawling all over my television. Do RA's live on TV's in nature? Probably not, but they can hitch rides on people and end up anywhere, including bags of coco. Everything at the hydro shop is suspect because most of the shops clientele comes in contact with plants.
overgrowit, great video. It was scary as hell seeing those little fuckers again.
Concentration in the bottle of an active ingredient does not determine the half life within the soil. The half life of these poisons DO NOT diminish just because it is a more dilute solution. The poison stays in the soil regardless of the concentration out of the bottle.
Let me give you all an example here:
If i take bayer tree and shrub and dilute to the point where its the same concentration as the fruit and citrus, the bayer tree and shrub will NOT have a longer half life in the soil like retro has claimed.
