Same here regarding the toxicity. As a preventative, now that my garden is free of the aphids, i have started using weak solutions of imid as a preventative. The stress has been lessened using the weak solution, however, its still there.
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Same here regarding the toxicity. As a preventative, now that my garden is free of the aphids, i have started using weak solutions of imid as a preventative. The stress has been lessened using the weak solution, however, its still there.
qupee
Member
The half life of imidcloprid varies considerably based on various environmental factors.
And you are right, it's a half life. So the amount of imidcloprid will reduce by half every so often, and it's the initial total amount of imidcloprid that will determine how much remains after a certain time. Not the concentration.
Well, that and some environmental factors.
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/haloxyfop-methylparathion/imidacloprid-ext.html
iirc, the half life for imid was considerably longer indoors. Maybe that wasn't imid, though, I've been looking at a lot of pesticide & fungicide data lately, could be confused.
Good info man. I think you are right regarding the half life indoors. Iirc, the half life will be determined by environment (e.g. high levels of oxygen speeds up the process).
The concentration in the bottle has nothing to do with the half life. You can make tree and shrub at the same concentration as fruit and citrus by diluting with more water than you would with the fruit and citrus.
whosthatguy
New member
I just started a new grow coming off what I believe was a RA infestation. What are some good preventative measures so I don't get these fuckers again?
ballplayer 2
Active member
F. Dupp, I did find fliers. Not many. I did find a few, maybe between 3-5 total. I killed them as quickly as possible (smoosh!!). That is what drew my attention was the fliers. I thought here we go again with the fungus gnats (if only I would have been so lucky). When I picked up my containers to judge saturation level (watering purposes), I saw tons of reddish/clearish bugs walking laps around the top of the containers. Then I also noticed white tiny little bugs moving their way up the sides of pots, and out the drain holes when watering. When I saw all these bugs all at once I knew I was F'ed. This was certainly no run of the mill, gone in a week, fungus gnat infest. I figured I had mites, and bought Azamax. I figured I better poke my head in this thread(after seeing it in passing through the infirmary) anyway. That is when I confirmed, unfortunately, I was dealing with RA's.
I am curious about a couple aspects of the Evergreen product. Which direction does Evergreen push your pH? I use a little dolomite lime in my mix, but I also pH my water everytime as well. Also, does the Evergreen Crop Protection product change the color of your nutrient/water solution? The reason why I ask is because I use the pH drops to test my pH, so I need mostly transparent water in order to approximate pH. I got sick of using wonky digital pH meters, which would fall out of calibration and fluctuate too much for my liking. And I was not ready to invest in a truncheon meter at the time. I have had very successful veggie grows indoors during the past year using the pH indicator drops in conjunction with a small amount of dolomite added (1-2 tsp/gallon). Figures that during my first attempt at cannabis in quite sometime I would acquire root aphids (after a very successful start, right up until about 1-2 weeks into flower).
Thank you for your time, experience, and advice.
BP
I am curious about a couple aspects of the Evergreen product. Which direction does Evergreen push your pH? I use a little dolomite lime in my mix, but I also pH my water everytime as well. Also, does the Evergreen Crop Protection product change the color of your nutrient/water solution? The reason why I ask is because I use the pH drops to test my pH, so I need mostly transparent water in order to approximate pH. I got sick of using wonky digital pH meters, which would fall out of calibration and fluctuate too much for my liking. And I was not ready to invest in a truncheon meter at the time. I have had very successful veggie grows indoors during the past year using the pH indicator drops in conjunction with a small amount of dolomite added (1-2 tsp/gallon). Figures that during my first attempt at cannabis in quite sometime I would acquire root aphids (after a very successful start, right up until about 1-2 weeks into flower).
Thank you for your time, experience, and advice.
BP
Evergreen caused my ph to go up. In a 24 hour period my rez will usually go from 5.6 to 5.8 or 5.9, but with the Evergreen in the rez it was jumping up to about 6.3 in the same amount of time. It also turns the water a milky white color, like skim milk. I dont know if that will affect your ph test, but it most likely will.
Add a couple drops of ph-down into your mix and dont worry too much about the pH for a couple of days. Just kill the bugs, then you can get everything else back on track.
Add a couple drops of ph-down into your mix and dont worry too much about the pH for a couple of days. Just kill the bugs, then you can get everything else back on track.
some info from another thread
some info from another thread
here's a quote from 40 ampstofreedom about his recent battles from this post: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4730312&postcount=33
I thought id post this in case people are looking for actual experiences from good growers on this site with aphids. Obviously, imid alone did not work for him either. And i find it highly unlikely it was user error.
some info from another thread
here's a quote from 40 ampstofreedom about his recent battles from this post: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4730312&postcount=33
I thought id post this in case people are looking for actual experiences from good growers on this site with aphids. Obviously, imid alone did not work for him either. And i find it highly unlikely it was user error.
I am glad someone else has joined me with the "half life" analysis! IMID is nasty and I have noticed an improved difference in my flowers and extracts--since I stopped using Imid (January this year).
BTW...what ever poison you use, try drenching the plant about 1 hour before transplanting (yeah the rootball might be more messy, but the results are worth it). Example, today I did several transplants (cup to quart, quart to gallon, and gallon to 3 gallon) and everyone got a drench. Why...I spied some RAs on 1 plant and I believe in preventive measures. Where is the source? Maybe Promix or my compost or even my dog....don't know!!! But my plants in flower have zero RAs....(flower is 3200w and veg is 800w).
Rational for drench at transplant: it takes less poison to drench a plant in a smaller container....than drenching it weeks later in a larger container.
I don't have a dog in any fight but I like 0.5 to 3 day half-life with Acephate!...just posting my experiences and quoting the source I linked to in my earlier post....
Acephate is rapidly degraded in soil by microorganisms under both
aerobic and anaerobic conditions. The half-life of acephate ranged from 0.5 to 3
days. The soil types in this experiment included loamy sand, sandy clay, silty
clay loam, loam, and clay (Chevron, 1972e and 1972f). Acephate is readily
metabolized in the soil under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions.
I like that...just wish odor of the brew was less offensive!
BTW...what ever poison you use, try drenching the plant about 1 hour before transplanting (yeah the rootball might be more messy, but the results are worth it). Example, today I did several transplants (cup to quart, quart to gallon, and gallon to 3 gallon) and everyone got a drench. Why...I spied some RAs on 1 plant and I believe in preventive measures. Where is the source? Maybe Promix or my compost or even my dog....don't know!!! But my plants in flower have zero RAs....(flower is 3200w and veg is 800w).
Rational for drench at transplant: it takes less poison to drench a plant in a smaller container....than drenching it weeks later in a larger container.
I don't have a dog in any fight but I like 0.5 to 3 day half-life with Acephate!...just posting my experiences and quoting the source I linked to in my earlier post....
Acephate is rapidly degraded in soil by microorganisms under both
aerobic and anaerobic conditions. The half-life of acephate ranged from 0.5 to 3
days. The soil types in this experiment included loamy sand, sandy clay, silty
clay loam, loam, and clay (Chevron, 1972e and 1972f). Acephate is readily
metabolized in the soil under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions.
I like that...just wish odor of the brew was less offensive!
qupee
Member
Tonight I harvested 28 girls. I figured out I had root aphids when these girls were at about 3.5 weeks into 12/12.
I applied Spectracide with Triazicide as a soil drench. About a week and a half later I applied Botaniguard as a soil drench and again about 5 days later.
A post harvest root ball inspection revealed 0 aphids (or any bugs for that matter).
I could tell general health had greatly improved, and I could see after harvest that the root system was much healthier than the last couple runs (but not as healthy as pre-aphids, yet).
I applied Spectracide with Triazicide as a soil drench. About a week and a half later I applied Botaniguard as a soil drench and again about 5 days later.
A post harvest root ball inspection revealed 0 aphids (or any bugs for that matter).
I could tell general health had greatly improved, and I could see after harvest that the root system was much healthier than the last couple runs (but not as healthy as pre-aphids, yet).
ballplayer 2
Active member
Excellent news indeed qupee. I do have both Spectracide and Botanigard in my arsenal as well. I will add either a 60-6 PBO/Pyrethrum spray, or Mighty Wash. Depending on the results another member observes using Mighty Wash.
What was the dilution rate you used for Botanigard? I read a tsp/gallon which would then allow a quart to treat 192 gallons of water. Did you notice any effect on pH using Botanigard?
What rate did you use Spectracide? Any effect on pH?
Sorry to be a pain in the neck.
Thank you for your time and experience.
BP
What was the dilution rate you used for Botanigard? I read a tsp/gallon which would then allow a quart to treat 192 gallons of water. Did you notice any effect on pH using Botanigard?
What rate did you use Spectracide? Any effect on pH?
Sorry to be a pain in the neck.
Thank you for your time and experience.
BP
Nice job man and congrats and pulling through the harvest. And of course thx for sharing your experience. Taht you were able to make it through the harvy is a considerable feet. Ill def have to keep your method in mind if i ever get suspicious during the bloom cycle, of a reinfection.
Grow on!
How fast do WINGED root aphids RUN? You know, approximately. Do they sprint and seem to move fast when running, or do they not?
qupee
Member
They're fast little bastards. And they know you're coming for em; they run and hide under the lips of your pots, etc. That's one way to tell them from gnats. Gnats are slow and stupid in comparison, content to sit there and let you squish them.
Not aphids. They know how evil they are.
Lol.
When I first encoutered the winged aphids I thought, "wow, these fungus gnats have really upped their game".
Too bad they werent fungus gnats.
qupee
Member
The manuals for both Spectra & Botani list spray rates.
Spectra lists 3 Tbsp/gal (45ml/gal). I went with about half that, 20ml/gal. It was a tough call, I didn't want to be too dilute. But that stuff smelled very petrol. And it completely halted water uptake for near a week.
After 4 days I watered again with h2o2 even though my soil was still saturated and heavy. btw, h2o2 was magic awesomeness during this time.
I can't say that I paid enough attention to pH to remember. I would think it didn't change it much, but honestly I don't recall.
For Botaniguard, they have various listings from 1/2 qt to 3 qt per 100 gallon, or 5ml to 30ml per gallon. I've been using 15ml per gallon.
That makes it much cheaper than Azamax as a drench, for example.
I had aphids for possibly as long as a year, and I've only been doing this about a year and a half total. Seriously, I thought I just didn't get it. I was getting very depressed as every time I hit 3 or 4 weeks into 12/12 everything just fell apart.
I saw an aphid thread about a week before the symptoms hit this last round, and I knew right away that all the fliers I had were not fungas gnats as I thought (there were lots, and at one point, epic infestation).
Everything in veg has been treated with bayer/imid. I will continue throughout the winter to treat with Bayer once 2 weeks after transplanting clones in rooter plugs into their first dirt in pots (about 2 weeks before flip), and twice with Botaniguard 5 days apart at 2 weeks into 12/12 and again at 6 weeks into 12/12.
That's my prevent reinfestation plan anyway.
My harvest weights have been falling each round, and the last one barely broke 0.5g/w with very obvious quality problems. This round recovered well and I should break 0.7 g/w. Quality is much improved. Not fully back to normal but the next 3 tents at 4-6 weeks into 12/12 all look very healthy still.
For the first time in many months, I have hope.
I may be the first person to ever be glad to have Root Aphids.
I have been battling a root pathogen in coco for about 5 months now. It has rocked my foundation and tested my patience. The first thing i did was look for root aphids. I did not find any. I did not look for very long. I have dealt with them years ago and they were very plentiful and obvious. So when i first had this problem i took my 30x mag and did a cursory look. Did not see any and then moved onto trying to identify the fungus.
What i am trying to determine is if root aphids caused all my root issues, or if they came after and have just added to it. Please help in this inquisition.
SYMPTOMS:
It began with healthy root systems, turning brown in random places in the pots. A root running the length of the pot would be white on the bottom, white on the top, but would have a section in the middle that was brown and translucent.
I began to see what looked like white mold in random places in the pot. Eventually a definite green mold would then start to spread in the same places. The holes in the bottom of the pots would have this white substance that i identified as mold. I have hears folks talk about a waxy substance, but does it look like mold?
I also saw, while magnifying the roots, what looked like tiny pieces of white mold stuck to the actual roots. They were not moving but look like little growths on the roots.
The only way i could gain any health would be to transplant into fresh coco and then they would grow healthy roots and then the brown would slowly take over.
I started a long thread on this a while back with some pictures. I'll post a picture here, but there are more over here.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=214052
This is what they looked like
This has plaqued my garden for 5 months and killed a number of plants. I am five weeks into flower and some girls are stalled and yellowing. I peeled down a smart pot and took my magnifier to the roots on the side. After about five minutes of staring a lone aphid walked into the site of the magnify glass and started to dance on a root. I am hoping these have been the cause of all my problems, because i can fight more efficiently when i know what i am fighting.
Any insights will be much appreciated.
Enjoy this sunday or whatever day it is where you are!
I have been battling a root pathogen in coco for about 5 months now. It has rocked my foundation and tested my patience. The first thing i did was look for root aphids. I did not find any. I did not look for very long. I have dealt with them years ago and they were very plentiful and obvious. So when i first had this problem i took my 30x mag and did a cursory look. Did not see any and then moved onto trying to identify the fungus.
What i am trying to determine is if root aphids caused all my root issues, or if they came after and have just added to it. Please help in this inquisition.
SYMPTOMS:
It began with healthy root systems, turning brown in random places in the pots. A root running the length of the pot would be white on the bottom, white on the top, but would have a section in the middle that was brown and translucent.
I began to see what looked like white mold in random places in the pot. Eventually a definite green mold would then start to spread in the same places. The holes in the bottom of the pots would have this white substance that i identified as mold. I have hears folks talk about a waxy substance, but does it look like mold?
I also saw, while magnifying the roots, what looked like tiny pieces of white mold stuck to the actual roots. They were not moving but look like little growths on the roots.
The only way i could gain any health would be to transplant into fresh coco and then they would grow healthy roots and then the brown would slowly take over.
I started a long thread on this a while back with some pictures. I'll post a picture here, but there are more over here.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=214052
This is what they looked like
This has plaqued my garden for 5 months and killed a number of plants. I am five weeks into flower and some girls are stalled and yellowing. I peeled down a smart pot and took my magnifier to the roots on the side. After about five minutes of staring a lone aphid walked into the site of the magnify glass and started to dance on a root. I am hoping these have been the cause of all my problems, because i can fight more efficiently when i know what i am fighting.
Any insights will be much appreciated.
Enjoy this sunday or whatever day it is where you are!
the youtube link is very good for illustrating the little fuckers and showing just how fast and small they are
That dude had more than just root aphids. Towards the end they were using a USB Scope to zoom in on bugs on a leaf, clearly they were 2 spotted spider mites.
Here's one from the related vids, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoOPRsB9GQ0&feature=related
Here's one from the related vids, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoOPRsB9GQ0&feature=related
Not a very good video since they are identifying the two spotted spider mite on the leaves as aphids. They are quite clearly the two spotted spider mite. The micro bugs that are fast moving share nothing with aphids other than they crawl. The mites have more legs than aphids and well..... they're mites lol They're soil mites. I've taken tons of pics and inspected many gardens with the micro bugs. I have them, and spread them to every pot. I have healthy plants with no deficiencies. The soil mites feed on fungus gnat larvae..... which is why I keep them.
I'm not saying those guys in the videos dont have root aphids...... but the two bugs shown are not root aphids.
Cheers
Smiley
Two spotted spide mite
Attachments
