The Future of Energy

[bentom187]

this is getting out of control,first you have to figure out the volume of atmophere of the earth,then you must find the volume of hydrocarbons in it along with the other chemicals nessicary for life,then you come up with a ratio of hydrocarbons to the others,then you will see if its conducive to life wich will be opinionated depending on how much oxygen you think you need live.
your argument grape is about prices and subsidies,go ask you congressman/women why they subsidies it and then the speculators who set the price.
but this is just my public schooling ,pls tell me just how wrong and insignifigant my reasoning is.

 

[Guest 88950]

City of San Diego
http://www.sunedison.com/uploads/pr/6/profile_alvarado.pdf

Challenge In 2006, the City of San Diego Energy Division began looking for a partner
to help deliver large-scale solar on city owned facilities. San Diego previously implemented
eleven small-scale solar systems with an average capacity of 27 kW, while
the Alvarado site would have a capacity of 1 MW. “We’ve found that large solar power
plants provide good generation on peak hours, so we wanted to get larger systems
as part of our mix,” says Blair. “With deregulation in California, we experienced the full
range of unregulated costs, so we were especially motivated to stabilize and forecast
our energy budgets. Self-generation systems will deliver a significant portion of the
power that is needed and will help us stabilize our electric costs and offset our peak
energy usage.”

Edit: i can understand your frustration with deregulation but it looks like SunEdison has solved this problem by offering a stable energy cost.

how is SunEdison subsidized by the govt?



Chuckawalla Valley State Prison
http://www.sunedison.com/uploads/pr/7/profile_chuckawalla.pdf

Alamosa -- largest US PV power plant
http://www.sunedison.com/uploads/pr/12/alamosa_final.pdf

 

[nattynattygurrl]

I love threads like these; threads that completely destroy the myth of the "stupid stoner".
Growers in particular, are some of the most brilliant and innovative people I've ever interacted with.


...However, that's not to say that there aren't some truly stupid stoners among you.



*EDIT*
After taking a break to get a few things done and returning to finish the last couple pages, I've come to suspect that some of the "truly stupid" just might be posting in this very thread, along with the brilliant...

 

[dagnabit]

With the national housing bust, problems may be too severe for Brown to fix.

bush doctrine excuse

preemptive strike for failure

It's always their fault



sorry i had a haiku

 

[Guest 88950]

Grapeman

if anyone disputes you or disagrees with you you call them a liberal.

you shouldnt assume that b/c it shows where you are to label an individual from such little info obtained through icmag post's.

i suppose i am doing the same to you regarding the nature of your posts and labeling you and ill refrain from those comments.

maybe you have difficulties articulating yourself any better.

 

[grapeman]

I remember reading an article that estimated Davis' spending vs Arnold's actual. Basically, Arnold made your economy worse. With the national housing bust, problems may be too severe for Brown to fix. If business doesn't pick up the slack, government will have to fill the void.

Have a nice 4th.

Come on disco. I know you aren't stupid. Government fill the void?????
It takes taxes on 5.5 private jobs to cover the cost of 1 government job. Where the fuck is the government going to get the money?
Wow - no wonder we have an ignorant president. We have ignorant voters.

Aside from the fact above (5.5 to 1), government jobs produce NOTHING. All they do is employ someone. Whether it's a fireman, policeman or city planner, they produce NOTHING. It's the folks in the private sector that produce all goods that figure into our GDP.

Wake the fuck up.

 

[grapeman]

yup. just like I said - nobody cares for longterm quality of life. Everyone wants to get payed Today.

Getting paid (not payed) today is what builds tomorrow dumbass.

 

[grapeman]

Because it costs $25,000-50,000 to set your house up for solar...that's a WHOLE LOT of $200 monthly bills! About 15 years worth! And, by the time it's "paid for itself"...it's time to replace the batteries! For another $20,000! Plus...they used a whole lot of oil making all that solar stuff.



Ha! The BIGGEST liars on earth and you believe them? "Official" means...full of shit! Whatever the government touches turns into lies...so believe their "report" at your peril!

Like the one we're having NOW? It started in 2008 and has been postponed six months because of government printing money at the rate of $10 billion a day and GIVING it to the banks. wait until it sinks in that there were NO corporate profits and that the "recovery" is nothing more than $10 billion a day being printed and sent into the economy by the government. That ALL needs to be paid off eventually. Remember...when you have a child...they're born $50,000 in debt! It's unsustainable. And it keeps going up! When I was born it was about $1000...easily manageable. Today it's 2-3X peoples annual income!

And it's ALL because our "leaders" spend/give away too much! We NEED a 2 trillion dollar budget cut...to survive we need those cuts...what are YOU willing to give up? What are YOU willing to pay "full price" for when the government subsidies end? They HAVE to end...our survival IS at stake.

Finally an intelligent post by someone who see the whole picture and isn't just looking at some fucked up photo showing a polar bear on an ice floe and crying for the bullshit that is solar. Which, if you kids would've studied in school, you would know that is the Polar bears NATURAL habitat.

 

[grapeman]

My point is, you can call me a liar but you just basically disagree with my posts.

We need teachers. We need non-government jobs. I disagree with your oversimplifications, not the fact that organized labor has it's pros and cons. But then again, so does the free market.

No I disagree with you because you post up bullshit lies.

The teacher's unions and SEIU outspent every corporation in America buying influence in the 2008 election.

Yet you see corporations as evil and public unions as benign. Facts are facts, and you can post up some bullshit again about Gray Davis vs. Arnold, but that is just to cover your bullshit and pretend you know what the fuck you are talking about. Which you don't.

 

[grapeman]

City of San Diego
http://www.sunedison.com/uploads/pr/6/profile_alvarado.pdf

Challenge In 2006, the City of San Diego Energy Division began looking for a partner
to help deliver large-scale solar on city owned facilities. San Diego previously implemented
eleven small-scale solar systems with an average capacity of 27 kW, while
the Alvarado site would have a capacity of 1 MW. “We’ve found that large solar power
plants provide good generation on peak hours, so we wanted to get larger systems
as part of our mix,” says Blair.

how is SunEdison subsidized by the govt?

Where I come from, the "City of San Diego" is the fucking government. Go post in the children's blog. This is waaay over your head.

 

[grapeman]

Grapeman

if anyone disputes you or disagrees with you you call them a liberal.

Hmmm. Not so much. But posts by others declaring more expensive energy is a good thing (while China is buying all carbon energy around the world it can) and expanding government jobs are good things while the private sector shrinks, is absolute liberal policy. I see it as the same bullshit reasoning that we need to reason and negotiate with terrorists. 20 years from today, if things do not correct themselves in D.C., America will have peaked. I for one, do not wish that for my kids. I disagree with the way the liberals are going about the outright destruction of America. The same way the public schools are now run. We just dumb down all the kids to the dumbest in the class (as seen posting here) instead of pushing people to be the best they can be. We are now demonizing successful people in America. It is now ok with the graduates from public school that 44% of all Americans don't pay taxes.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml

The top 5% earners now pay 50% of all taxes.
http://www.american.com/archive/200...zine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

This is a model for failure and it's this same thinking that wants "the government" to mandate the use of solar energy.

I like solar energy. It's just not quite ready for prime time. so why is the government pushing it down our throats?

So it's pretty easy to see that shit if you just read.

 

[bentom187]

this is getting out of control,first you have to figure out the volume of atmophere of the earth,then you must find the volume of hydrocarbons in it along with the other chemicals nessicary for life,then you come up with a ratio of hydrocarbons to the others,then you will see if its conducive to life wich will be opinionated depending on how much oxygen you think you need live.
your argument grape is about prices and subsidies,go ask you congressman/women why they subsidies it and then the speculators who set the price.
but this is just my public schooling ,pls tell me just how wrong and insignifigant my reasoning is.

grape,it looks like you took the time to do the math and research.
wheres that private schooling? do you just like refering to pictures of polarbears and ice flow? i would think that you would have somthing to show for your opinions.

look heres a start ,of the equasion you would like to work out its actually the most informative site i could find.

Crude oil is a product of the remains of prehistoric plants and animals, buried in the primeval mud of swamps, lakes, and oceans. Over the centuries, layers of mud and organic debris were subjected to enormous pressure and high temperature, and a petroleum-saturated rock was formed. Current models suggest that the dominant form of organic matter responsible for the formation of petroleum and synthesis of crude oil is derived from microscopic, photosynthetic organisms known as phytoplankton that live at or near the surface of lakes and oceans. Associated with the phytoplankton are their microscopic predators known as zooplankton. These, together with land vegetation washed into lake or near shore marine sediments, accumulate over a period of millions of years.

As more sediment is deposited, the organic matter is buried so that its complete destruction by bacterial activity is prevented. During burial, a number of changes (termed diagenesis) begin quickly under the influence of bacteria. The most notable process is the conversion of major biological building blocks, or biopolymers (proteins, cellulose, and lipids), into their individual components biomonomers (amino acids, sugars, and fatty acids). These accumulate in the sediments, which, as they settle due to overburden, begin to be heated by the earth's geothermal gradient, which averages about 1.2°F per 100 feet of burial. Hence, sediment buried to 10,000 feet would have a temperature increase of 120°F over its ambient temperature at the surface. During this process, the biomonomers begin to react among themselves, growing into a complex two-dimensional refractory organic structure known as kerogen.

Under further thermal stress and over millions of years of burial, slow reactions occur, removing oxygen as carbon dioxide and water and transforming the kerogen to crude oil. When burial is great, resulting in temperature elevations to above about 150 to 200°F, the source rock becomes over-mature and crude oil can be transformed to hydrocarbon gases. At very high temperatures (exceeding 200°F), most of the crude oil and natural gas is converted to methane, known in the industry as dry gas. Following the formation of oil and gas, the fluids are mobilized into reservoirs.

Both time and elevated heating are thus responsible for transforming organic matter derived from decaying organisms to petroleum and gas. The original chemistry of the organic matter, the environment of deposition, and the time and heat imposed on the organic matter dictate the type of crude oil or gas formed. The chemistry of the oil and gas can often help to reconstruct the source of the original organic matter and temperature of hydrocarbon generation.

Crude oil formed during this long and complex process is composed of a mixture of many substances, from which various refined petroleum products (such as gasoline, kerosene, fuel oil, and lubricating oil) are manufactured. These substances are mainly composed of carbon (C) and hydrogen (H), and are therefore called hydrocarbons. Other elements, such as oxygen (O), sulfur (S), and nitrogen (N), may also be present in relatively smaller quantities, together with traces of phosphorus (P) and heavy metals like vanadium (V) and nickel (Ni). Despite wide variations in the chemical composition of crudes (R.J. Hengstebeck, 1959), their elemental compositions generally fall within the following narrow ranges:

Element
Composition (%)
Carbon 84-87

Hydrogen 11-14

Sulfur 0-3

Nitrogen 0-1

Oxygen 0-2





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4.2 Chemical Constituents of Petroleum and Its Refined Products

The simplest hydrocarbon is methane, which consists of one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms. Its molecular structure can be presented as:

or CH4

Larger hydrocarbon molecules are composed of two or more carbon atoms joined to one another and also to hydrogen atoms (alkanes, also called paraffins). The carbon atoms may form a straightchain (n-alkanes), a branched-chain (iso-alkanes), or a ring (cycloalkanes, cycloparaffins or naphthenes) structure. Each carbon atom must have four chemical bonds, as shown below:


n-alkane iso-alkane cycloalkane

When two adjacent carbon atoms are linked by two or three bonds instead of only one, the hydrocarbon is said to be unsaturated. Straight- or branched-chain hydrocarbons with one or more double bonds are called alkenes or olefins, and hydrocarbons with a double bond in a ring are cycloalkenes or cycloolefins.

The simplest member of the olefin series is ethylene:



Hydrocarbons containing six-membered ring units with three alternate double bonds form an important group known as aromatic hydrocarbons. The simplest member of this group is benzene, which has only one ring or nucleus. Compounds with multiple condensed benzene rings are called polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH). Naphthalene is an example of a two-ring PAH.


benzene naphtalene

The principal compounds in petroleum are paraffins, naphthenes, and aromatic hydrocarbons, with subordinate amounts of asphaltic-type materials. For example, the hydrocarbon type composition of a crude oil from South Louisiana (National Research Council, 1985), is:

Hydrocarbon type Weight %

Paraffins 28

Naphthenes 45

Aromatics 18

Asphaltenes 9


Refining of Crude Oil. Although crude oil may be utilized directly as an energy source, the full benefit of the different properties of the constituent hydrocarbons may be realized only when the constituents are separated. Distillation is the principal method for separating crude oil into useful products. Distillation at atmospheric pressure separates crude oil into fractions of a specific boiling range as schematically shown in Figure A-1.



Fig. A-1 Hydrocarbon composition and boiling ranges for major refined products

Modern refinery practice is much more complex than just distillation. It consists of many interrelated steps designed to manufacture different fuels for specific applications. As most crude oils contain only 10 to 40 percent of their hydrocarbon constituents in the gasoline range, refineries use cracking processes, which convert high molecular weight hydrocarbons into smaller and more volatile compounds. Polymerization converts small gaseous olefins into liquid gasoline-size hydrocarbons. Alkylation processes transform small olefin and iso-paraffin molecules into larger iso paraffins with a high octane number.

Combining cracking, polymerization, and alkylation can result in a gasoline yield representing 70 percent of the starting crude oil. More advanced processes, such as cyclization of paraffins and dehydrogenation of naphthenes to form aromatic hydrocarbons, have also been developed to increase the octane rating of gasoline. Modern refinery operation can be shifted to produce almost any fuel type with specified performance criteria from a single crude feedstock. Figure A-2 summarizes the major fuel manufacturing processes commonly used in petroleum refining.



Fig A-2 Principal refinery process streams


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4.3 Characterization and Composition of Refined Products

The properties of refined fuels are a function of the refinery process and the chemistry of the starting crude oil blend. This section briefly describes some physical and chemical bulk properties of different fuels, as well as typical additives.

Gasoline Fuel. Automotive gasoline is a generic term used to describe volatile petroleum fuels used primarily in internal combustion engines. It is a complex mixture of hydrocarbon compounds predominantly in the C3-C12 range, with a boiling-point distribution between 120 to 400° F (77 to 340° F for aviation gasoline) and specific gravity of about 0.74 g/cm3. The specific composition may vary depending on the source of petroleum and refinery method and has changed historically as a function of automotive design and regulatory dictates. Automotive and aviation gasolines include a number of additives, such as antiknock agents, lead scavengers, and antioxidants (Kirk-Othmer, 1977).

Among the additives, lead alkyl antiknock additives and lead scavengers are the most important for fingerprinting purposes, because the composition of lead alkyls and their concentration in gasoline contamination can be important time markers (in free phase products). Leaded gasoline was first marketed in 1923, and until 1960 tetraethyl lead (TEL) was used as the only antiknock agent (L.M Gibbs, 1999). Since 1960, when Chevron (then Standard Oil Co.) introduced another antiknock, tetramethyl lead (TML), different combinations of these two additives as well as redistribution reaction mixtures of TEL and TML were used (L.M Gibbs, 1993). The composition of commercial redistribution reaction mixture resulting from the use of equimolar amounts of TML and TEL is:

Mixture Tetra- methyl
lead (TML)
Trimethyl- ethyl
lead (TMEL)
Trimethyl-ethyl
lead (TMEL)
Methyl-triethyl
lead (MTEL)
Tetra-ethyl
lead (TEL)

Weight % 3.8
23.4
42.4
25.6
4.8


After about 1980, the most common lead additive was TEL, sometimes containing small amounts of TML. In addition, the total amount of lead added to gasoline as lead alkyls has changed with time. The recommended maximum content of lead at 3.17 grams of lead per US. gallon of gasoline (g Pb/gal) was introduced in 1926 (Public Health Bulletin, 1926). The maximum permitted level peaked in 1959 at 4.23g Pb/gal (Public Health Bulletin, 1959). As a result of government regulations on the use of lead, maximum levels gradually decreased to 0.5 g Pb/gal in 1985 and to 0.1 g Pb/gal in 1988 (L.M. Gibbs, 1990). By the end of 1992, California completely eliminated leaded gasoline, whereas other states had already done so in previous years, but some states still have a waiver on the use of leaded gasoline. A plot of the average historic concentration of lead in U.S. gasolines, based on the information provided by Mr. James W. Caldwell (1994) of the EPA is shown in Figure A-3.



Fig. A-3. Historical lead usage

To reduce adverse effects of lead oxide, which remains in the engine after combustion of the fuel, lead scavengers ethylene dibromide (edb) and ethylene dichloride (edc, also commonly known as 1, 2-DCA) were introduced in 1928 (S.P. Nickerson, 1954). The ratio between the two has changed over the years. A typical motor mix for automotive gasoline additives in the 1980s consisted of about 62 percent TEL, 18 percent edb, 18 percent edc, and 2 percent of other inactive ingredients, such as dye, antioxidants, petroleum solvent, and stability improvers. For aviation piston engines, TEL is still used as an antiknock additive, and the scavenger consists entirely of edb, because one combustion product of edc is the corrosive hydrochloric acid.

With the government-mandated phase-out of lead additives, oxygenate compounds such as ethers and alcohols have been increasingly blended to gasolines to maintain high octane rating and reduce vehicle emissions of carbon monoxide. A common oxygenate, methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MtBE), has been blended with gasoline since its first commercial manufacture in 1979. Its documented use on the East Coast was in 1982 and in California in the late 1980s.

The rapid growth of MtBE usage, which started about 1980, was in response to the implementation of the winter oxygenated gasoline program for 39 areas that did not attain the EPA standard for maximum carbon monoxide atmospheric concentration levels required by the Clean Air Amendments of 1990 (Title I, 1990). Modern reformulated gasoline contains as much as 15 percent by volume of MtBE. Methyl-, ethyl-, and tertiary-butyl alcohol have all been blended with gasoline by different refineries. Some states, such as Alaska and Washington, either exclusively or primarily use alcohols as oxygenate blending agents.

Middle Distillate Products. This group of products generally includes mineral spirits and stoddard solvent, kerosene, most of the jet fuels, diesel, and light fuel oils.

Kerosene (fuel oil No. 1). It is a light-end middle distillate intended for use in vaporizing-type burners, in which liquid fuel is converted to a vapor by contact with a heated surface or by radiation. Kerosene is generally a straight-run distillate with a boiling range of 260 to 570° F and density of approximately 0.81 g/cm3. It is composed of hydrocarbons predominantly in the C9-C16 range. Bulk composition of a typical fuel oil No. 1 is:

Hydrocarbon type Volume %

Paraffins 50.5

Naphthenes 30.9

Aromatics 18.6


Jet Fuels. Many commercial jet fuels have basically the same composition as kerosene, but they are made under more stringent specifications than those for kerosene, mostly in the decrease of sulfur and aromatic hydrocarbons. Other commercial and military jet fuels are referred to as wide-cut fuels and are usually made by blending kerosene with lower boiling streams (such as straight-run naphtha) to include more volatile hydrocarbons. Selected properties and composition of widely used jet fuels are presented in Table A-1.

Table A-1: Selected Properties and Composition of Jet Fuels

Property and Composition Commercial Jet A fuel (kerosene)
Military Jet Fuel

JP-4 (USAF) (wide cut)
IP-5 (USN) (kerosene)

Gravity, ° API 42.3
54.8
41.0

Boiling range, °C 170-300
48-270
150-290

Saturates content, vol. % 80.7
88.4
81.1

Aromatics content, vol. % 15.8
10.8
16.5

Olefins content, vol. % 1.8
0.8
1.4

Sulfur content, vol. % 0.035
0.018
0.020


Diesel fuel No. 2. It is a heavier distillate than diesel fuel No. 1. It is intended for use in atomizing-type burners, which spray the fuel into a combustion chamber where the droplets burn while in suspension. Diesel fuel No. 2, manufactured in the United States, is generally a blend of straight-run and catalytically cracked streams, including straight-run middle distillate, hydrodesulfurized middle distillate, and light catalytically and thermally cracked distillates.

The boiling range of the fuel is approximately 320 to 680° F and density is in the range 0.82-0.86 g/cm3. It consists of hydrocarbons having carbon numbers predominantly in the range C9-C24. It is noteworthy that this fuel has a wide range of PAH hydrocarbons, extending from naphthalenes (dominant) to phenanthrenes. Diesel fuel No. 2 often also includes the sulfur-containing aromatics, such as benzothiophenes and dibenzothiophenes, as well as alkylated benzenes.

A wide range of additives is often blended in the finished product to assure technical performance (IARC Monographs, 1989). The gross composition of a typical diesel fuel No.2 is:

Hydrocarbon type Volume %

Paraffins 55

Naphthenes 12

Olefins 5

Aromatics 24

Residuals 4



Diesel fuel No. 1. It is similar to a blend of kerosene together with a lesser amount of diesel No.2. Diesel No. 1 is manufactured for use in cold climatic conditions because it is less viscous than diesel No.2. However, the long chain hydrocarbons from C16-C24 present in diesel No.2 aid in engine lubrication and are therefore essential for the welfare of motor vehicles. Diesel No.1 is often sold in warm climate states or cities when a local refinery uses its excess kerosene to blend with more expensive diesel No.2.

Heavy Oils. Because of the method employed in their production, heavy fuel oils fall into two broad classes: distillates and residuals. The distillates consist of distilled products, and residual fuel oils are residues that remain after distillation or cracking of crude oil to produce the middle-distillates.

Distillates. Fuel oils No.1 and No.2 are distillate fuels with composition and properties essentially equivalent to diesel fuels No. 1 and No. 2, respectively. Grades No. 4 to 6 fuel oils are residual oils.

Residual Fuels. Fuel oil No.4 is a light residual. It is intended for use in burners equipped with devices that atomize oils of higher viscosity than domestic burners can handle. Fuel oil No.5 is a residual fuel of intermediate viscosity. It may require preheating in some types of equipment for burning under cold climatic conditions. Fuel oil No.6 sometimes referred to as Bunker C, is a high viscosity oil used mostly as a boiler fuel and in commercial and industrial heating. It requires preheating in storage tanks to permit pumping and additional preheating at the burner to permit atomizing. Bunker C spans the hydrocarbon range from C9 to approximately C36 and a boiling range of 340 to 1060° F. The gross composition of a typical Bunker C oil is:

Hydrocarbon type Volume %

Paraffins 14

Naphthenes 7

Olefins -

Aromatics 34

Residuals 45


In addition, residual oils exhibit a wider range and greater concentrations of PAH than distilled products. A comparison of the relative contents of alkylbenzenes and PAH hydrocarbons in gasoline, Diesel No. 2, and Bunker C oil is presented in Table A-2 (Adapted from I.R. Kaplan, et al., 1995).

Table A-2: Relative Concentrations of Alkylbenzenes and PAH Hydrocarbons in Gasoline, Diesel, and Bunker C Reference Fuels

No. m/z Compound Gasoline Diesel
Fuel Bunker
C Oil
Relative %

1 120 C3-alkylbenzenes 57.6
1.2
0.3

2 134 C4-alkylbenzenes 20.4
2.1
0.8

3 148 C5-alkylbenzenes 4.3
1.6
0.9

4 162 C6-alkylbenzenes 0.6
1.0
0.3

5 128 C0-naphthalene 11.2
0.7
1.6

6 142 C1-naphthalenes 5.5
5.6
5.8

7 156 C2-naphthalenes 0.2
24.6
13.6

8 170 C3-naphthalenes 0.1
26.1
9.4

9 184 C4-naphthalenes 11.8
3.0

10 166 C0-fluorene 0.8
0.5

11 180 C1-fluorenes 2.1
1.2

12 194 C2-fluorenes 3.0
1.8

13 208 C3-fluorenes 0.4
1.4

14 222 C4-fluorenes 0.7




now this should give you a idea of what petrol contains and you only need to find out what the rest of the atmosphere contains.

 

[bentom187]

heres where i got the text from

http://www.dpra.com/index.cfm/m/158

 

[bentom187]

the above was meant as a post of the chemical profile.

 

[alkalien]

I feel this is going a little bit off topic. I recently read a comment by someone discussing the way we argument on the internet. Just because somebody has a different opinion you can't say he is either stupid or poorly educated.

Solar Energy is more expensive than nuclear and fossil fuel burning - until you take into consideration the huge costs the companies do not have to pay. Like for example the storage of burnt nuclear fuel or the dissassembly of nuclear power plants. Even the design and the research the companies did not have to pay. I'm not even starting with the dangers, please tell me why no insurance wants to cover nuclear power plants? The taxpayer has take the risk so that few companies can get rich as hell. (sure they give a lot of cash to the political parties, it's like that all arround the world). Fossil fuels will run out and since they are becoming waymore expensive like every day. Just fill up xour car and you'll know.

When we can no longer afford fossil fuel we will have to have a plan B. Sure we can use natural gas, for another few decades and we will! Small gas driven turbines cobined with steam driven turbines and the remaining heat can be used to heat homes. You get very much energy out of the gas, only wasting a little of it. But this can't be the solution for the future.

In the south of Spain and in Marrocco, companies built solar power plants able to deiver 25MW arround the clock, even at night. Costs are only slightly higher than fossil energy. The more research is done on that topic, the smaller this gap is gonna be and one day, solar energy can be a important part of the energy mix. As far as I know California is pretty far on this road as well?

Keep in mind, fossil fuels will run out for the whole world, don't you wanna be the guy who developed the perfekt solar power plant that day? He will be fucking rich and he will do the world one huge favor!

The goverments arround the world should care less about helping their friends and concentrate more on helping those who build the future. The sun puts out up to 1,8kW / m², that's way too much energy not to use!

 

[Dudesome]

alkalien! respect, man. I would rep you again if I could! exactly what I don't get is why ppl take others ppls points of view so personaly and make enemies out of it.

great deliberation. very thought through!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Come on disco. I know you aren't stupid. Government fill the void?????
It takes taxes on 5.5 private jobs to cover the cost of 1 government job. Where the fuck is the government going to get the money?
Wow - no wonder we have an ignorant president. We have ignorant voters.

Aside from the fact above (5.5 to 1), government jobs produce NOTHING. All they do is employ someone. Whether it's a fireman, policeman or city planner, they produce NOTHING. It's the folks in the private sector that produce all goods that figure into our GDP.

Wake the fuck up.

I remember your Cali jobs exodus. You only had one part of a three part equation. I don't know where you get your 5.5 to 1. Business has 1.7 trillion in cash, paying the least revenues since the 1950s and we've got 45 million needing full-time employment.

And your barometer focuses on you as a measure of economic stability.

No I disagree with you because you post up bullshit lies.

The teacher's unions and SEIU outspent every corporation in America buying influence in the 2008 election.

And that's much less putrid than Ken Lay and Enron.

Yet you see corporations as evil and public unions as benign. Facts are facts, and you can post up some bullshit again about Gray Davis vs. Arnold, but that is just to cover your bullshit and pretend you know what the fuck you are talking about. Which you don't.

Aren't you the guy that discounts facts when they don't go your way?


You've ran out of OIL OIL OIL arguments and now you're just clinging to politics and personal insults.

 

[Guest 88950]

Where I come from, the "City of San Diego" is the fucking government. Go post in the children's blog. This is waaay over your head.

you got nothing but "Go Post in the childrens Blog".

back up your statement that this is over my head, where are the posts made by me relating this.

im not the one stuck in an outdated mindset who refuses to believe opinions and facts that differ from my own.

you HATE DEREGULATION correct? then why do you reject info i posted supporting YOUR claim that deregulation had a disastrous effect on energy prices and one of the solutions to the problem was a company, Sun Edison, that uses current PV tech to supply energy at a stable price.



i believe it is you that is out of their league regarding this topic but what do others think?

who is more misinformed......GrapeMan or me.

atleast im man enough to admit when i am wrong.

 

[Guest 88950]

Hmmm. Not so much. But posts by others declaring more expensive energy is a good thing (while China is buying all carbon energy around the world it can) and expanding government jobs are good things while the private sector shrinks, is absolute liberal policy.

you have a comphrension problem.

show me in the links i posted where the contract for service INCREASED the price per kw/hr.

you cant!

you want the best of both worlds but you cant have it.

Hmmm. Not so much. But posts by others declaring more expensive energy is a good thing...and expanding government jobs are good things while the private sector shrinks, is absolute liberal policy.

i hope you are not referring to my posts b/c if you can deduce that "im for bigger govt / outsourced jobs" from links showing the possibilities of current PV Tech then you are not as knowledgeable on the subject of PV tech and sustainable energy as you think.


GM.....show me where im wrong b/c im all for learning.


how is the shrinking of the private sector the fault of liberals? who is in charge of the large corporations and what decisions were behind outsourcing jobs.

companies move operations offshore to avoid environmental issues, wage issues and to lessen the tax burden in order to compete on a global scale but the fact that can not be ignored is the American Consumer has a disposable mentality and prefers to buy cheaper outsourced products rather than a more expensive domestic product.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

India Solar Boom: Rural Poor Give Up On Power Grid

India Solar Boom: Rural Poor Give Up On Power Grid

...Despite decades of robust economic growth, there are still at least 300 million Indians – a quarter of the 1.2 billion population – who have no access to electricity at home. Some use cow dung for fuel, but they more commonly rely on kerosene, which commands premium black-market prices when government supplies run out.

They scurry during daylight to finish housework and school lessons. They wait for grid connections that often never come.

When people who live day-by-day on wage labor and what they harvest from the land choose solar, they aren't doing it to conserve fossil fuels, stop climate change or reduce their carbon footprints. To them, solar technology presents an elegant and immediate solution to powering everything from light bulbs and heaters to water purifiers and pumps.

"Their frustration is part of our motivation. Why are we so arrogant in deciding what the poor need and when they should get it?" said Harish Hande, managing director of Selco Solar Light Pvt. Ltd.

The company, which is owned by three foreign aid organizations, has fitted solar panels to 125,000 rural homes in Karnataka state, including the Gowdas', outside the west coast port of Mangalore.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/india-solar-power-boom_n_889760.html

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