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The Future of Energy

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Interesting article. It's quite long, but a very interesting read. I'm just pasting a few parts that I like.

The Future Of Energy
Perhaps even more than exposing the instability of the worldwide economic ponzi system, so far 2011 has been most remarkable for fully demonstrating the fragility of the global energy complex, which in the aftermath of the Fukushima nuclear crisis (and the moratorium on nuclear energy in Germany now, and soon other places), and the MENA revolutions, have raised the question of what happens in a world in which crude is getting ever scarcer, while the one main legacy energy alternative, fission-based nuclear power, just took a giant step back. The topic of limitations in conventional and possibilites in alternative energy has gripped the general public's mind to such an extent that Popular Science magazine has dedicated its entire July edition to answering that very critical question. As PopSci says: "Oil’s amazing efficiency is one reason it remains in such high demand, especially for transportation, and it’s also why finding an alternative will be so difficult. But find one we must. We have already burned our way through most of the world’s easy oil. Now we’re drilling for the hard stuff: unconventional resources such as shale and heavy oil that will be more difficult and expensive to discover, extract, and refine. The environmental costs are also on the rise." So what is the existing line up of future alternatives to the current crude oil-dominated energy paradigm. Below we present the complete list.

Next Generation Nukes.

Nuclear power may have taken a major step back after the biggest nuclear catastrophe since Fukushima, but that does not mean existing Generation III projects (the Fukushima reactor is a Gen II) are not viable and safe. Below is a summary of the key aspects of this program now coming on line in Japan, France and Russia.

Summarizing a typical Gen III schematic:
AP%201000.jpg


Shale

Total reserves: 3 trillion barrels of oil equivalent (BOE)

Given the political anxiety surrounding the prospect of importing oil, U.S. policymakers will be understandably tempted to reach first for the closest, richest oil resource. For many, that would suggest shale oil. The vast deposits located beneath Colorado, Utah and Wyoming alone could generate up to 800 billion barrels of oil. But policymakers should resist that urge.

Oil shale is created when kerogen, the organic precursor to oil and natural gas, accumulates in rock formations without being subjected to enough heat to be completely cooked into oil. Petroleum engineers have long known how to finish the job, by heating the kerogen until it vaporizes, distilling the resulting gas into a synthetic crude, and refining that crude into gasoline or some other fuel. But the process is expensive. The kerogen must either be strip-mined and converted aboveground or cooked, often by electrical heaters, in the ground and then pumped to the surface. Either process pushes production costs up to $90 a barrel. As all crude prices rise, though, the added expense of shale oil may come to seem reasonable--and it is likely to drop in any case if the shale oil industry, now made up of relatively small pilot operations, scales up.

The problem is that the external costs of shale oil are also very high. It is not energy-dense (a ton of rock yields just 30 gallons of pure kerogen), so companies will be removing millions of tons of material from thousands of acres of land, which can introduce dangerous amounts of heavy metals into the water system. The in-ground method, meanwhile, can also contaminate groundwater (although Shell and other companies say this can be prevented by freezing the ground). Both methods are resource-intensive. Producing a barrel of synthetic crude requires as many as three barrels of water, a major constraint in the already parched Western U.S. With in-ground, the kerogen must be kept at temperatures as high as 700°F for more than two years, and aboveground processes use a lot of heat as well. Those demands, coupled with kerogen’s low energy density, yield returns ranging from 10:1 (that is, 10 barrels of output for every one barrel of input) to an abysmal 3:1.

Natural Gas

Total reserves: 1 trillion BOE

Natural gas, or simply “gas” in industry parlance, has long been oil’s biggest potential rival as a transport fuel. Gas is cleaner than oil--it emits fewer particulates and a quarter less carbon for the same amount of energy output--yet today it powers less than 3 percent of the U.S. transportation fleet (mainly in the form of compressed natural gas, or CNG). This proportion is poised to grow, though, in part because the overall supply of gas keeps growing.

With advances in a drilling technique called hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking,” companies can now profitably extract gas from previously hard-to-reach shale formations. Worldwide reserves of shale gas currently stand at 6,662 trillion cubic feet, the energy equivalent of 827 billion barrels of oil. And that doesn’t include the gas that is routinely discovered alongside oil in oil fields and that is sure to be found in some of those yet-to-be-explored deepwater basins.

Gas is so plentiful that, in energy-equivalent terms, its price is a quarter that of oil--a bargain that is already transforming CNG from a niche fuel, used mainly in bus fleets, to a product for general consumption. The Texas refiner Valero, for instance, will soon begin selling CNG at new stations in the U.S.

A gas-powered future could still have some high external costs, though. Fracking can be extremely hazardous to the local environment. The method uses high-pressure fluids to break open deep rock formations in which gas is trapped, and these fluids often contain toxins that might contaminate groundwater supplies. But such risks, which have received substantial media coverage and are now the focus of a new White House panel, may be controllable. Gas deposits are typically thousands of feet belowground, while groundwater tables are much closer to the surface, so most contamination is thought to take place where the rising bore intersects with the water table--a risk that could be minimized by requiring drillers to more carefully seal the walls of the bore.

That said, allocating too much natural gas to transportation might have surprisingly negative consequences. First, it would most likely increase demand for natural gas so much that prices would rise, thereby undermining the current cost advantage. Second, shifting a large volume of gas to the transportation sector would mean pulling that volume away from the power sector, where it is more constructively displacing coal, whose carbon content is far higher than oil’s. But converting specific sectors of the transportation system (delivery fleets, for instance, or buses) could simultaneously cut CO2 emissions and reduce oil demand.
My personal guess is that NG based products take us into the future until nanotechnology makes solar power the viable economic choice.
 
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joeuser

Member
Solar will NOT replace oil. Oil is "condensed" sun energy. The sun simply isn't bright enough to replace oil or NG. And the COST of adding solar to every house...too much...remember...we're ALREADY broke!
 
G

Guest 88950

Solar will NOT replace oil. Oil is "condensed" sun energy. The sun simply isn't bright enough to replace oil or NG. And the COST of adding solar to every house...too much...remember...we're ALREADY broke!


what do you know about PV technology?

with statments like "the sun isnt bright enough" implies you are missing something. i think you should learn more about the PV industry as well as how energy is harvested from the sun.

check out Nano Solar, Konarka or even parabolic troughs.

http://www.konarka.com/
http://www.nanosolar.com/
http://www.abengoasolar.com/corp/we...rated_solar_power/parabolic_trough/index.html

above are 3 examples of market ready technologies involving generating energy from the sun.


do you still stand by your belief that "THE SUN ISNT BRIGHT ENOUGH"?
 

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
I agree with Super Silver Haze the more I find out about solar power the more I see we should have turned to this YEARS ago and obviously the OIL/GAS companies has thrown their monkey wrenches into that one just to make money . Holy shit we live in a corrupt world of greedy shitty ppl that don't give a fuck.. peace out Headband707
 

robbiedublu

Member
Solar will NOT replace oil. Oil is "condensed" sun energy. The sun simply isn't bright enough to replace oil or NG. And the COST of adding solar to every house...too much...remember...we're ALREADY broke!

More ignorance. Keep it up, you're on a roll.
 

supermanlives

Active member
Veteran
methane gas. once visited a diary farm that ran on it. everybody poops LOL and when your done you can sell it to the japanese to make steak HA HA
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Solar will NOT replace oil. Oil is "condensed" sun energy. The sun simply isn't bright enough to replace oil or NG. And the COST of adding solar to every house...too much...remember...we're ALREADY broke!

What are you talking about?

When/If nanotechnology allows us to arrange the atoms perfectly on the solar panels they will be able to collect 88%+ of the energy. As of now it's somewhere around 11% efficiency (as per Discovery Channel). If solar panels become that effecient then they will much more viable than fossil fuels. Oil will still be drilled for and used just not at the same rate.

Until we get to that point NG is the way to go IMO. We need some kind of bridge to get off foreign oil. NG is domestic, plentiful, and cleaner than oil.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
resurrect Nikoli Tesla to solve these issues.
imo, electromagnetically induced power will ultimately provide for us...at least the ones left after the conflagration. ;-(
just sayin'.
several (MANY) patents on collecting atmospheric electricity exist, and most have been ignored and/or absorbed by those who would deny us an available, safe, and free power source.
the power of the universe, uninterruptable, immense, constant, yet ignored.

'course this is pure speculation.
 
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Green lung

Active member
Veteran
America needs to get a set of balls and stop being such "risk averse".

Are political system is paralyzed by Idealogues from both sides of the spectrum in Congress.
 

foomar

Luddite
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The UK is going with a mix of new nuclear stations , natural gas from Europe and the middle east and reduced use of coal despite huge reserves on CO2 emmision grounds , green energy is also being heavily promoted and subsidised.

Shale gas tests are currently suspended due to possible minor quakes and media concern , every proposed windfarm is dragged through the courts , people like the idea but dont want to see them.

Demanding government standards for energy efficiency in new builds and products has been very effective , cutting waste at every level is worth a fortune with prices so high and the place to start.
 
C

CascadeFarmer

methane gas. once visited a diary farm that ran on it. everybody poops LOL and when your done you can sell it to the japanese to make steak HA HA
There's a lot of energy stored as methane clathrate, more commonly known as methane hydrate on the ocean bottoms. Problem is being able to process it. Supposedly in ancient times there was a disruption on the ocean floor near Scandanavia I think it caused a huge tsunami or something not to mention the huge release of methane which disrupts the gas balance in our atmosphere.

When/If nanotechnology allows us to arrange the atoms perfectly on the solar panels they will be able to collect 88%+ of the energy. As of now it's somewhere around 11% efficiency (as per Discovery Channel). If solar panels become that effecient then they will much more viable than fossil fuels. Oil will still be drilled for and used just not at the same rate.
I remember reading a couple of years ago where a kid on a science project, pretty sure he was under 20, created a technology to make 3D solar wafers that were much more efficient than the current flat technology.

If you Google '3D solar cell' the article comes up but the site won't allow me to easily copy the text...and he was 12.
 

joeuser

Member
What are you talking about?

When/If nanotechnology allows us to arrange the atoms perfectly on the solar panels they will be able to collect 88%+ of the energy. As of now it's somewhere around 11% efficiency (as per Discovery Channel). If solar panels become that effecient then they will much more viable than fossil fuels. Oil will still be drilled for and used just not at the same rate.

Until we get to that point NG is the way to go IMO. We need some kind of bridge to get off foreign oil. NG is domestic, plentiful, and cleaner than oil.

There's not enough energy in a photon and there aren't enough of them to "effectively" replace oil/coal/NG as an energy source.

You'd have to take up too much ground/roof space to make it work. The ENERGY cost is also too high. WHEN they make 88% cells...we can talk again. We can't run the planet on vaporware!

It's the AMOUNT these alternate technologies have to effectively replace...MILLION of BBLs a day! MANY millions of BBLs. We use a HUGE amount of energy daily.

Sure, NG is a nice bridge...but it doesn't have nearly the energy density of oil. NOTHING in current technology comes close.

resurrect Nikoli Tesla to solve these issues.
imo, electromagnetically induced power will ultimately provide for us...at least the ones left after the conflagration. ;-(
just sayin'.
several (MANY) patents on collecting atmospheric electricity exist, and most have been ignored and/or absorbed by those who would deny us an available, safe, and free power source.
the power of the universe, uninterruptable, immense, constant, yet ignored.

'course this is pure speculation.

Now you're talking! Making electricity from field differences between the earth and the atmosphere could generate electricity.

The problem with ALL replacements is...scale of size...we need HUGE amounts...

America needs to get a set of balls and stop being such "risk averse".

Are political system is paralyzed by Idealogues from both sides of the spectrum in Congress.

Actually...it's "monthly payments" that is the root of the problem. Companies need RELIABLE and constant monthly sales. If they can't "rent" it to you...central distribution...they can't make money.

There's a lot of energy stored as methane clathrate, more commonly known as methane hydrate on the ocean bottoms. Problem is being able to process it. Supposedly in ancient times there was a disruption on the ocean floor near Scandanavia I think it caused a huge tsunami or something not to mention the huge release of methane which disrupts the gas balance in our atmosphere.


I remember reading a couple of years ago where a kid on a science project, pretty sure he was under 20, created a technology to make 3D solar wafers that were much more efficient than the current flat technology.

If you Google '3D solar cell' the article comes up but the site won't allow me to easily copy the text...and he was 12.

Are you SURE you want to tempt fate? That methane is a catastrophe waiting to happen...IF it's true what they say about it. I'd try to stay away from that as long as possible.

Go invent "Mr Fusion"...
 
C

CascadeFarmer

Are you SURE you want to tempt fate? That methane is a catastrophe waiting to happen...IF it's true what they say about it. I'd try to stay away from that as long as possible.
Dude that's basically what I said. Look at the problems they had with the gulf well when trying to deal with it. The methane was forming ice causing huge problems. Some said they knew they were drilling into a deposit with a lot of methane and were gonna try and find a way to harness it. I just shook my head when I heard that. From what I understand it's hard to deal with and can be unstable. Still though lots of methane energy stored on the planet.

One interesting thing with the warming seen in some areas of the world, like the Siberian tundra, is the thawing ground is releasing a lot of methane.
 

whodare

Active member
Veteran
Solar will NOT replace oil. Oil is "condensed" sun energy. The sun simply isn't bright enough to replace oil or NG. And the COST of adding solar to every house...too much...remember...we're ALREADY broke!

plain wrong...

enough sun energy hits the earth everyday to power the earth for more than a year

***
The radiative surface of the sun, or photosphere, has an average temperature of about 5,800 Kelvins. Most of the electromagnetic radiation emitted from the sun's surface lies in the visible band centered at 500 nm (1 nm = 10-9 meters), although the sun also emits significant energy in the ultraviolet and infrared bands, and small amounts of energy in the radio, microwave, X-ray and gamma ray bands. The total quantity of energy emitted from the sun's surface is approximately 63,000,000 Watts per square meter (W/m2 or Wm-2).

The energy emitted by the sun passes through space until it is intercepted by planets, other celestial objects, or interstellar gas and dust. The intensity of solar radiation striking these objects is determined by a physical law known as the Inverse Square Law (Figure 3). This law merely states that the intensity of the radiation emitted from the sun varies with the squared distance from the source. As a result of this law, if the intensity of radiation at a given distance is one unit, at twice the distance the intensity will become only one-quarter. At three times the distance, the intensity will become only one-ninth of its original intensity at a distance of one unit, and so on.


Figure 3: According to the Inverse Square law the diffusion of radiation is geometrically related to distance traveled. In the equation given, I is the intensity of the radiation at one unit distance (1d). At two unit distances (2d), the intensity of the radiation is determined by dividing I by the square of the new distance from the source. The same procedure is used to determine the intensity at three unit distances from the source.
Given the amount of energy radiated by the sun and the average Earth-sun distance of 149.5 million kilometers, the amount of radiation intercepted by the outer limits of the atmosphere can be calculated to be around 1,367 W/m2. Only about 40% of the solar energy intercepted at the top of Earth's atmosphere passes through to the surface. The atmosphere reflects and scatters some of the received visible radiation. Gamma rays, X-rays, and ultraviolet radiation less than 200 nanometers in wavelength are selectively absorbed in the atmosphere by oxygen and nitrogen and turned into heat energy. Most of the solar ultraviolet radiation with a range of wavelengths from 200 to 300 nm is absorbed by the concentration of ozone (O3) gas found in the stratosphere. Infrared solar radiation with wavelengths greater than 700 nm is partially absorbed by carbon dioxide, ozone, and water present in the atmosphere in liquid and vapour forms. Roughly 30% of the sun's visible radiation (wavelengths from 400 nm to 700 nm) is reflected back to space by the atmosphere or the Earth's surface. The reflectivity of the Earth or any body is referred to as its albedo, defined as the ratio of light reflected to the light received from a source, expressed as a number between zero (total absorption) and one (total reflectance).

***http://www.eoearth.org/article/Solar_radiation
Citation

Michael Pidwirny (Lead Author);Kevin Vranes (Topic Editor) "Solar radiation". In: Encyclopedia of Earth. Eds. Cutler J. Cleveland (Washington, D.C.: Environmental Information Coalition, National Council for Science and the Environment). [First published in the Encyclopedia of Earth January 24, 2010; Last revised Date December 16, 2010; Retrieved June 26, 2011 <http://www.eoearth.org/article/Solar_radiation>


so about 700 watts per square meter hit the earth, given that and the fact the earth has 510,100,000,000 square meters including oceans we get hit with 357,070 gigawatts or 357 terawatts

From wiki:
In 2008, total worldwide energy consumption was 474 exajoules (474×1018
J=132,000 TWh). This is equivalent to an average annual power consumption rate of 15 terawatts (1.504×1013
W)
 
G

Guest 88950

:yeahthats


WHODARE

present facts or solutions proving that the sun is capable of providing adequate energy does no good b/c JoeUser doesnt seem to be interested in learning about real possibilities emerging in the PV / solar field.
 

grapeman

Active member
Veteran
what do you know about PV technology?

with statments like "the sun isnt bright enough" implies you are missing something. i think you should learn more about the PV industry as well as how energy is harvested from the sun.

check out Nano Solar, Konarka or even parabolic troughs.

http://www.konarka.com/
http://www.nanosolar.com/
http://www.abengoasolar.com/corp/we...rated_solar_power/parabolic_trough/index.html

above are 3 examples of market ready technologies involving generating energy from the sun.


do you still stand by your belief that "THE SUN ISNT BRIGHT ENOUGH"?

Sigh. another idealist who thinks solar is ready for prime time. It fucking isn't. Do some research before you claim it is. The cost per watt is too high. by the time the cost/watt reaches to correct price point, hydrogen will be just around the corner.

Hydrogen is the future. Until then, it's carbon and you will like it and worship at the feet of oil & coal. Or become a 3rd world country, which direction our current president is pushing us.
 
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