Zamal genetics side by side test comparison grow

[funkyhorse]

Hi there Nexus
I am sure you have them too, this is a paper from Western Australia about argentine ants

Argentine ants | Agriculture and Food

Argentine ants, Linepithema humile, are a major cosmopolitan pest ant species, primarily of the suburbs, which often enter houses in search of food and moisture. They can also be a horticultural pest. This page describes ways to identify argentine ants, discusses their biology, and advises on...

www.agric.wa.gov.au

I am not having problems with the plants on pots, the problem in this case is plant on soil

This Mango Zamal is on soil but is very resistant, but there are other critters to deal with as well like aphids, this is not only antland but also aphidland and bugland

Double Zamal attacked on pot is back upwards after the attack and nothing happened

This is Thaidelica on soil last day. It might regrow some leaf but it will be eaten again, I saw it before. They are eating even the stem. She is in vegbox so she can root on the ground mother nature soil. If I put a double tray not sure it will root on floor and there might be roots without any soil cover.
If I see these attacks happening on pots I will try it, it is an environmentally friendly method. Thank you very much for this suggestion!!

 

[funkyhorse]

I am talking with the local agronomy engineers, it is clear there is a different thinking and different methods used at this part of the world, it is very interesting.

library:articles:gypsum - Spectrum Analytic

spectrumanalytic.com

Gypsum is not used here, soil is very fertile and according to the paper above, gypsum is a soil ammendment and I saw no reference at all for use against funguses.

For funguses I will try the environmentally friendly bordeaux mixture I hope to get it next week
On large commercial fields, this is what is locally used, I dont think it is envirnmentally friendly but I have no idea
Anyone know about this as fungicides?:

Dicopper chloride trihydroxide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Copper(I) oxide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For ants, the best suggestion is urtica liquid manure. It repels them and other critters and at the same time the liquid manure is food for the plants. I like this approach from the 20th century very much. It is a pity all these practices are left aside in favour of non friendly agrotoxics
3 lts of water left in the sun 4 days with 25 grams of dehydrated leaves bought at the pharmacy of this plant makes the magic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urtica

Golden Tiger feminized grown indoors got chopped. Very good landrace resistance against mites and against white fly and I see the cut outdoors very good too

I got a little unexpected pollen from the Northern Thai 2008 variegated boy and this will be Golden Thaiger in the making


If Zamal x Golden Tiger is Zamaldelica, then Golden Tiger x Zamal trifoliate would be Tigerdelica?

 

[funkyhorse]

Reyes has passed and these are the final auto numbers on the Zamaldelica breeders pack
Double zamal: 9 girls and 3 LGBTs
Zamal A: 8 girls 1 boy and 3 unsexed
Thaidelica: 8 girls 3 unsexed
Elite F1 x F2 3 girls and 2 unsexed
F3 Zamal Thai 4 girls 2 unsexed

And I also have
Mango Zamal 5 girls 5 LGBTs

From the breeders pack I got 32 girls, 3 LGBTs, 1 boy and 10 unsexed which will be considered photoperiod
Interesting maths!! almost 90% females from the auto stock

New Caledonia has sexed a day before Reyes too and is a boy. So I have a New Caledonia auto boy and he is the first boy I put on soil. Together with Mango Zamal LGBTs they will be the pollen donors.
Double Zamal LGBTs and Zamal A boy got the cull, I have seen what happens with these maths before. I dont care about LGBTs being pollen donors. I certainly do care about endogamy and inbreeding depression and these ridiculous maths talk for themselves. Maybe it is time for a change in breeding paradigm. People will always try to copy the leaders and the most succesful in any field, cannabis breeding is not any exception. Then you have Adidas and Rolex and you have the fakes and there is nothing Rolex or Adidas can do tpo stop the counterfeiting of their products.
Leading seedbanks breeding with reversed pollen in order to bring inbreeding depression on progeny I think it is an outdated practice today when you are the Rolex of cannabis sativa breeding in the market. Because I thought I bought a Rolex and what I got is a Seiko or Citizen at best which is not bad but it is not the same, it certainly doesnt help with building a prestigious brand

LGBT and male room first picture. Mango zamal on the left and New Caledonia boy on soil in the back plus a few Northern Thai 2008 male cuttings
Mango Zamal LGBTs and Mauritius x Ethiopian second picture and Mango Zamal LGBTs next ones

 

[funkyhorse]

I found it funny Shakira in her new hit song is comparing a Rolex with Casio. If she would have compared it to Seiko or Citizen I could have accused her of plagiarism haha

Finally could source the Bordeaux mixture
It works as a preventive and it shouldnt cure attacked areas. For curing attacked areas you need to use potent modern agrotoxics
The Bordeaux mix is a blue colour powder to wet with water and then spray on plants. I used an approximate dosage of about 10 grams per liter or maybe a little extra
The plants didnt seem to mind it at all. I sprayed the whole garden
In a week from now I will see if it is effective for cannabis here
On this Zamal A which was the most attacked, I saw the powdery mildew turn into a contracted non powdery thing

On Mango Zamal I didnt find the PM spots

F3 Zamal Thai which is the worst of all with PM together with Elite F1xF2 look much better

Attacked Thaidelica is saved. She grew new leaf in the cloner. The cuts had only 3 leaves and I am taking them out with new growth

 

[funkyhorse]

I tried the bordeaux mix and it is effective as a PM preventive and can stop light PM
I would use it only on veg and I am not sure it will be effective when the autumm dew and 100% humidity mornings start because it gets washed away easily

I just read about citric acid, Phantom posted this and I might try it
Does anyone have any experience using citric acid as insecticide and fungicide?

Updates:
Thaidelicas are all sexed and they belong to the thai thread. 11 out of 11 all girls.
I thought it was a regular line
What are the odds of this happening with regular seed?

Some unexpected surprises:
I got my first Mauritius x Ethiopian girl sexed under 14 hours of light in 40 days. I dont know if this cross is auto x auto or auto x photoperiod. If I have to guess the Mauritius is auto. Next days will show if this cross is reliably auto

Zamal MP x Smoh BX I have 2 girls sexed out of 6 plants under 14 hours of light in 45 days.

Zamal MP x Green Oldtimer Haze 1 girl sexed under 14 hours of light

Wellllll, this is what expecting the unexpected is all about.
Serendipity at its best. We are talking about Auto Haze here
@MadMac
Do you have enough reports about your Zamal FT x Ohz? Do you know if it is auto, photoperiod or mixed phenos? Is it possible for you to see if it is autoflowering indoors?
Double Zamaldelica is reliably auto. x Ohz is auto?
New Caledonia x Ohz is auto?

Have a nice weekend everybody

 

[Nexus7]

I think GN / Gerritt's Zamal was known to auto under certain conditions especially when in a small pot and root bound. Difficult to keep in veg as a mother too iirc ...

What sized pots are you using?

 

[funkyhorse]

I think GN / Gerritt's Zamal was known to auto under certain conditions especially when in a small pot and root bound. Difficult to keep in veg as a mother too iirc ...

What sized pots are you using?

Hi there Nexus
75% of the Zamal A cross is auto in our latitudes. I sex them in 1,3 liter pots.
All of the Zamal sex at around 45 days from seed and they are small when they show sex
They flower for about 4 months and more and they stretch all this flowering time finnishing at heights of 3 meters or over
Certainly not rootbound when sexing

After sexing I plant them on living soil growing beds or in 20 liter pots
I do note that Zamal only show their true indentity with chandelier branching when uppotted to 20 liter pots, in smaller pots they are not happy

I have no doubts Zamal is auto, but breeders refer to it as semiautoflowering
What is this semiauto meaning? Or it is auto or it is not.

 

[goingrey]

What is this semiauto meaning? Or it is auto or it is not.

Kind of a catchall categry for strains that are really eager to flower but not fully auto. Will do it if rootbound or with days up to 20 hours long or whatever...

Fully auto will flower no matter what with age. Even with 24 hour days and plenty of root space.

 

[funkyhorse]

Kind of a catchall categry for strains that are really eager to flower but not fully auto. Will do it if rootbound or with days up to 20 hours long or whatever...

Fully auto will flower no matter what with age. Even with 24 hour days and plenty of root space.

Last year I took Zamal flowers cuts indoors and they all revegged for me at 16/8. It took 2 months though when other tropical strains take one month to reveg from flower

So below 16 hours of light Zamal is fully auto no matter age or root space and over 16 hours it is not.
This is being called semiautoflowering.
I guess for lat 50N and over it does make a difference, but I really doubt Zamal could be grown properly at those latitudes, so when talking about Zamal, it doesnt matter where or who, it will behave like fully auto for anyone who can grow it

So all semiauto strains will reveg on 16 hours of light or over? It is a little tricky this auto or semiauto thing

 

[goingrey]

Last year I took Zamal flowers cuts indoors and they all revegged for me at 16/8. It took 2 months though when other tropical strains take one month to reveg from flower

So below 16 hours of light Zamal is fully auto no matter age or root space and over 16 hours it is not.
This is being called semiautoflowering.
I guess for lat 50N and over it does make a difference, but I really doubt Zamal could be grown properly at those latitudes, so when talking about Zamal, it doesnt matter where or who, it will behave like fully auto for anyone who can grow it

So all semiauto strains will reveg on 16 hours of light or over? It is a little tricky this auto or semiauto thing

It can be grown indoors. And a huge difference for indoor growers if you can keep a mom or not. With fully autos you cannot.

There is at least one strain that will flower at 20 hours of light. Ok if I remember correctly it is an industrial hemp strain but, still, proves 16 hours isn't any hard limit.

 

[Nexus7]

So all semiauto strains will reveg on 16 hours of light or over? It is a little tricky this auto or semiauto thing

I think semi-autos lines would each have their own flowering triggers. More interesting would be to figure out what induces flowering in each specific semi- auto. Plant age, plant height, number of nodes, increasing / decreasing lights hours, rootbound etc and then use that knowledge to get the most out of a line for our local environment.

 

[funkyhorse]

Hi there Nexus
I find the auto trait very very interesting, it allows counterseason and all year around flowering

I have tried a few semiautos and I think it is genetics and every genetic is different, but what I found in common to all of them is that increasing/decreasing hours, number of nodes and rootbound dont count

Nepal Baglung: Here they are small plants 1-1,2 meter tall showing sex after 40 days
Leb 27: small plants of up to 1 meter tall. They show sex after 40 days and are ready from seed to harvest in about 120 days
Lebanese Ace seeds/ Israel 90s: plants up to 1,5 meter tall, they show sex after 40 days and they seem to be ready from seed to harvest in around 5 months
Sinai TRSC: same like Israel 90s
Zamal: They show sex at around 45 days 30/40 cms tall when they show sex. They flower for long time, six months from seed to harvest and they stretch all the time during flowering making very tall plants
New Caledonia: They show sex at around 70 days or more. When uppotted to 5 liter pots they sexed at between 1,4 meter tall to 2 meter tall plants. I have no clue how long they will flower for
Mauritius x Ethiopian Ace Seeds: The first 2 girls are showing sex at around 30cms tall 40 days after sprouting. If this is consistent auto or not I have no clue. I just saw the second girl today. I just guess it must be similar to Zamal, I wonder if it will make chandelier branching

Are there more landrace sativa strains with this semiauto trait?

 

[willydread]

So far I have had two experiences with sativa semi-autoflower, the first was zamaldelica, and the second was Jamdung weed, a Jamaican landrace, in both cases it was just one pheno, and I think in my case (at least for the Jamaican ) I believe it is ALSO due to the relatively small vessel, 5 lt...

 

[goingrey]

Are there more landrace sativa strains with this semiauto trait?

Moroccan

 

[funkyhorse]

All auto hazes are sexed and they are all reliably semiauto, it doesnt matter if the father is Seedsman hz or Ot1Hz
Mauritius x Ethiopian has 2 plants semiauto and the rest are photoperiod

All the semiauto plants which I am interested in have been successfully pollinized by Mango Zamal

I have tried potassium soap and for me it is the best solution to keep plants happy and free from bugs and fungus. A potassium soap shower every 2 weeks is very helpful in this environment

Today I discover the first girls which turned intersex, they belong to the same genetics: Elite F1 x F2
I had 3 girls, now only one left. The girl left seems firm but I will start having a closer look on everything
Elite F1 x F2 intersex girl 1

Elite F1 x F2 intersex girl 2

Elite F1 x F2 girl 2 left girl 1 right, shit happens nothing to do about it, happens in the best seedbanks. This is why you need to grow the full pack

Have a nice weekend everyone

 

[funkyhorse]

New Caledonians are having a very tough time with the ants. Landrace resistance of this variety is low here, they get attacked by local fauna. I just pollinized the NC girls with the little pollen left from the firm male and decided not to make outcrosses with this pollen because of the difficulties the strain has in this environment. I saved a few seed from the leafcutters made by the intersex NC male with Zamal pollen

Most of the plants are finnishing sexing.
Experiments are giving very interesting results
Zamal Mp x Smoh BX gave me 5 girls and 1 boy
Same results from Zamal MP x Ot1 Green Haze: 5 girls and 1 boy
Same Zamal MP mom crossed with Mango Karut boy: 4 girls and no boys
So from my own seed I got from 16 seeds 14 girls and 2 boys.
Very similar numbers to what I got from the breeders pack. Next time you potty mouth about this crazy numbers, blame the genetics, not the seedbank.
Zamal is probably the most challenging genetics in the canna world

All crosses coming from the Zamal MP girl are sexing in 45 days from seed, no matter photoperiod
Auto hazes

For some leaf comparison, these have sexed yesterday and uppotted to 20 liter pots
Above is Mango Karut BX showing typical Zamal leaf, below is Zamal x Ot1 Green Haze. Difference in leaf shape is clear

 

[funkyhorse]

Mango Zamal is the only zamal strain having similar flowering times and similar structure,
I wonder if the progeny will keep the same features as pure race or will show variability like F2

The Zamaldelica breeders pack have a lot of variability with the exception of Thaidelica but it is different from the Zamal strains
I am finding tall plants, short plants, columnar plants, superbranchy plants, plants that are consistently semiauto and all plants are having different flowering times
I wonder if these will turn into a lot of difference in the flower structure and type of high or no matter plant structure will all of them provide similar buds
From the polyhybrids I grew so far I got like in this case a phenotype carnival which translated into a lot of variability in high quality

These are the most advanced of the breeders pack, I believe they should be ready in april
Double Zamal, 2 different girls one is columnar and the other has chandelier branching

This is the Elite F1 x F2 survivor

Zamal A columnar pheno

F3 Zamal Thai

 

[Thcvhunter]

Fuuuck yes

 

[funkyhorse]

This post belongs here as well

This is my Mango Zamal LGBT room. For me they are pollen makers
View attachment 18814725
My best weed is coming from the progeny of intersex plants
My best haze is the 5% haze keeper x an intersex girl Thai I chopped as soon as she made a male branch and pollinized the whole room

Zamal is intersex weed. I dont know if sativas and indicas would be the same, but for sativas I have no problem using them for my own seed
This is Mango Zamal trifoliate boy making seed outcrossed with the other Mango zamal. He is clearly the most productive of all Zamal boys. I am very curious about this mutant, my most interesting trifoliate so far, I used his pollen as a third in the pollen mix on the home repro. I am not a breeder and I shouldnt be doing this, but if I dont do it then I will never get to try it and know
View attachment 18814727 View attachment 18814726 View attachment 18814728

N thai variegated boy.
View attachment 18814733
Northern Thai 2008 variegated boy female flower x Mango Zamal. It is next to the trifoliate so I hope most of the seed is coming from him as pollen donor. Is variegation considered a mutation? So this is variegated x trifoliate hoping to get some interesting mutants in the progeny
View attachment 18814734

SamS is the teacher. He said outcross xy x xy and progeny should be firm and it is mostly. I am getting more females than expected from the male seed but every strain is different, the only way to know is trying


And a question for all masters: I sadly live in front of GMO soybean plantations and their plagues come here too
Do you know if Nezara viridula is a plague on cannabis as well? I dont see it praying on the seeds not the plants, it loves one of the Zamal pollen makers and it seems to feed on the pollen
Any organic treatment against it? Thanks for help

Nezara viridula - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

es.wikipedia.org

View attachment 18814736
Have a nice day everyone and thanks for help

 

[funkyhorse]

March arrived and we are a couple weeks away from equinox
This is an update with all the remaining plants, their structure and looks and current flowering situation
Next updates will be when harvesting the different plants
A pleasing and soothing march morning

This is inside the tent: Zamaland

This is the Elite F1 x F2 survivor getting chunky. A lot of weight on this plant, I wonder if she will be strong enough to hold the buds without support. It is about 1,8 meter tall

F3 Zamal Thai
3 girls have similar structure to the Elite F1 x F2 survivor but different flowering times. Some flower while others just made a few pistils only. Plants are 1,5-1,8 meter tall
Girl 1 is the most advanced

Girl 2

Girl 3
This F3 Zamal Thai is a 3 meter beast and have just a few pistils, very different structure from the sisters

Girl 4 is in another greenhouse. The plants are in 3 different greenhouses. At this time of the year there are no differences between them but after may one of the greenhouses is much better weather than Zamaland, this girl is 2 meter tall