WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[10k]

Another controversial topic arrrrgh...
No offense intended towards all the people who like running fem'd seeds and all the breeders who make and sell them, but I'd like to offer my own two cents on the topic. Call it a joke if you will and slam me if you wish but here goes...

LOL...I wish folks who bring about bad vibes on fem seeds would offer up more than their personal theories of voodoo and bad juju. What a joke.

To be taken with a grain of salt, as a lot of folks run from seedlings every run. I'd much rather find a good keeper mom and go with good stable clones for several reasons outside of the obvious need to run a constant vigil searching for the elusive nanner tossing bitches.

But for those who run seedlings exclusively as well as those running a batch of sprouts looking for a keeper mom, there are many folks each with their own personal styles of growing and thus have their own set of feelings about running feminized beanage.... I just want clean pure girls to keeper trial.

I fall into the purist category of not being particularly fond of these fem'd beans because of the "bad juju" that I have gotten from running with them. Most recently for example I was gifted a handful of fem'd seeds from a trusted professional breeder and without fail, they grew out as all females, but some were throwing stealth nanners and messing up everything with the suprise batch of g'damned seeds in what should have been kind seedless bud. This is NOT a personal "theory" but rather is based on past experiences.

You even said it yourself with this statement HD...

A seed can also lack the male chromosome because it was the result of a female plant expressing the intersex trait. The otherwise female plant produces male stamen and pollinates another female plant (or itself). These seeds will also lack the male chromosome, but will more than likely produce progeny with a high propensity of carrying the intersex (hermie) trait.

Call it my own bad luck if you will, but ime, all I ever gotten from fem'd beans was girls with that darned old bad juju propensity...and a handful of juju beans that I'd rather eat than germinate.

my

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Thing is, it wasn't any bad juju or even voodoo that caused the plants you grew to hermie. It was the previous selection of the "trusted professional breeder" that provided the intersex gene for you to enjoy. Nothing more, nothing less. If that particular breeder were to have used true breeding parent stock, there would be a very, very small chance of hermie showing up in good conditions. And even not too promising for a visit in even less than desirable conditions. Unless of course you can tell us what form of magic causes this outside of the normal genetic box?

You do know that Soma (a trusted professional breeder) was providing (and as far as I know still is) seeds that were produced from latent hermie stock? Soma's method of choice to force male stamen on a female is to let them flower way past ripe, which is a stress that often triggers latent hermie genes to the surface.
Hermie begets hermie as far as I can see it, albeit myself a layman.

btw...I think Soma just recently admitted that his somewhat less than professional approach to pollen forcing may not be the best bet.
The selection of true breeders for parent stock is the way to go. Many just simply haven't done the proper selection to provide seeds that do not have the propensity to hermie.
Same with regular seeds. No difference whatsoever.

 

[love?]

hoosierdaddy: Are you sure?

Yeah Soma wrote an article about this "rodelization" method of making feminized seeds but I think it was just something that he recommended to hobbyists. I doubt he actually ever used it himself to make seeds to sell and Skunkman has confirmed that Soma certainly does not use it anymore to make his feminized seeds but STS instead.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I think you can still find Soma's gear that was produced by using late hermie pollen. Unless vendors can tell us that he pulled stock at some point. And perhaps he did.
But that does not change the fact that a trusted professional breeder was using a less than desirable method to produce female stock for his customers.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I am all for the freedom and time to grow out plants properly... remember to register to vote California.. The Anti-Cannabis folks are organizing voter registration against decriminalizing cannabis already and they are getting a lot of people registered to vote against us!

I am not so sure that Cannabis sexuality relates directly to commercial success. It would rather relate to Cannabis success.

 

[stagger lee]

I truely hate debating about feminized,(never ends well) and (might not seem like it)I respect your opinion HDaddy, but I dont buy it at all.Feminized genetics arent any more likely to herm than standard? And I love how you feel like you have to belittle my view, No I didnt just read it somewhere and pass it on. My opinion of the grow environment influencing the final sexual outcome of plants grown from seed is backed up by several grow books, mags,ect..And if you dont believe it, I can offer the book, or mag and page# that back up my voodoo theory from any of these Greg green,JorgeC,the Rev,Judge Dready,Robert Clark just off the top of my head.Greg Greens growers and breeders bible IMO explain it easiest, and like I said I can give page #'s ect.. to back up my "joke" of an opinion.

A stressful grow environment(mostly heat probs,and irregular light scheduale) is the main reason feminized produce males and hermies.Do you really think standard seeds are just as likely to produce herms as feminized seeds?.I would like to read about your theory and Ive got most of the grow books out, and have a collection of Heads,Weed World,Cannabis Culture,Skunk, and some oldschool High Times mags if you can point me in the right direction. Im not above being wrong and have no problem admitting it either. I apologize if Im coming off like a smart ass,
after all we are all stoners,growers ect.. that share the same love of herb.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Be sure you understand the difference between a hermie selfed seed (S1) and a feminized seed.
The seed resulting in the mating of a female, with the pollen of a female that went hermie, will be females. Only a very slim chance of a mutation causing a male in any of the progeny of such a pollination. There is however a very high propensity for their to be hermies come from the progeny of that mating, due to the showing of the intersex gene in one of the parents.

The seeds resulting from a mating of a female, with another female that is chemically forced to produce male pollen, will also be females...all females. Now, if the parents that were chosen do not show the intersex trait, especially when subjected to stresses, then the chances are very good that the progeny will also be hermie free.
IF, however the parents were chosen poorly, and if one or more of them carry a high propensity to hermie, then it is a high likelyhood that the progeny will also show hermie at a high rate.

Nothing will change the genes that the seed has in it's map. If it has no Y chromosome, there is no way it can be changed to a male due to stress...any stress.

It is actually very rare IMO to find a plant that is completely void of the intersex gene. And as such, most all plants will carry the gene...some carry it more latent than others.
The key is to find parents that have the hermie gene buried way down deep. Two females like this can be forced to pollinate each other, and will produce a very high rate of hermie free progeny, and will all be females. Females that will not be changed due to environment or otherwise.

And yes, most definately and without a doubt, regular seeds that were bred using poorly selected parents will absolutely bring about lots more hermies than a well selected female selfing.

What you are trying to argue is internet voodoo that you think you remember reading about....

 

[JackTheGrower]

I truely hate debating about feminized,(never ends well) and (might not seem like it)I respect your opinion HDaddy, but I dont buy it at all.Feminized genetics arent any more likely to herm than standard? And I love how you feel like you have to belittle my view, No I didnt just read it somewhere and pass it on. My opinion of the grow environment influencing the final sexual outcome of plants grown from seed is backed up by several grow books, mags,ect..And if you dont believe it, I can offer the book, or mag and page# that back up my voodoo theory from any of these Greg green,JorgeC,the Rev,Judge Dready,Robert Clark just off the top of my head.Greg Greens growers and breeders bible IMO explain it easiest, and like I said I can give page #'s ect.. to back up my "joke" of an opinion.

A stressful grow environment(mostly heat probs,and irregular light scheduale) is the main reason feminized produce males and hermies.Do you really think standard seeds are just as likely to produce herms as feminized seeds?.I would like to read about your theory and Ive got most of the grow books out, and have a collection of Heads,Weed World,Cannabis Culture,Skunk, and some oldschool High Times mags if you can point me in the right direction. Im not above being wrong and have no problem admitting it either. I apologize if Im coming off like a smart ass,
after all we are all stoners,growers ect.. that share the same love of herb.

I don't think it's black and white. The plants motive is to reproduce.. I doubt seriously the plant cares about us getting high or making profit.

I'm interested in what we know for real and when we knew it.

I agree that environment will have an effect on how the genetics reacts. I am unsure that there is a master race if we just don't use feminized seeds or even stains that have a hermi in their lineage. I mean what genetics could possibly be 100% free of such genetic history? ( think the beginning of time )

I'm guessing the best we can do is pick our genetics and test it to create a certified gene pool. There is no money in selling seeds only once tho...

I have a lot of time to chat today...

 

[JackTheGrower]

Be sure you understand the difference between a hermie selfed seed (S1) and a feminized seed.
The seed resulting in the mating of a female, with the pollen of a female that went hermie, will be females. Only a very slim chance of a mutation causing a male in any of the progeny of such a pollination. There is however a very high propensity for their to be hermies come from the progeny of that mating, due to the showing of the intersex gene in one of the parents.

The seeds resulting from a mating of a female, with another female that is chemically forced to produce male pollen, will also be females...all females. Now, if the parents that were chosen do not show the intersex trait, especially when subjected to stresses, then the chances are very good that the progeny will also be hermie free.
IF, however the parents were chosen poorly, and if one or more of them carry a high propensity to hermie, then it is a high likelyhood that the progeny will also show hermie at a high rate.

Nothing will change the genes that the seed has in it's map. If it has no Y chromosome, there is no way it can be changed to a male due to stress...any stress.

It is actually very rare IMO to find a plant that is completely void of the intersex gene. And as such, most all plants will carry the gene...some carry it more latent than others.
The key is to find parents that have the hermie gene buried way down deep. Two females like this can be forced to pollinate each other, and will produce a very high rate of hermie free progeny, and will all be females. Females that will not be changed due to environment or otherwise.

And yes, most definately and without a doubt, regular seeds that were bred using poorly selected parents will absolutely bring about lots more hermies than a well selected female selfing.

What you are trying to argue is internet voodoo that you think you remember reading about....

We are all saying the same thing.. It's inexact. We cannot be expert. Life is meant to have random element.

It's wise to create genetics we intend to profit by that do not create seeds in the crop because it will sell for less.

It doesn't mean that we won't get a stable cross using hermi genetics or feminized genetics.

Am I correct?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Feminized genetics has nothing to do with the stability in any fashion.

But then we need to define stability. I think that we are talking here about a plant not showing hermie being considered stable. But we can also say that a plant (cultivar) is stable by showing a predictable range of phenotypes, such as an IBL would.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Feminized genetics has nothing to do with the stability in any fashion.

But then we need to define stability. I think that we are talking here about a plant not showing hermie being considered stable. But we can also say that a plant (cultivar) is stable by showing a predictable range of phenotypes, such as an IBL would.

I'm working the twist of perspective is all.

To the plant the goal is reproduction.. It doesn't care.

That we need the genetics to work in a specific way is economic.

Cool with me..

What is the best qualities to smoke and how we get there may not be dependant on a conformist genetic subset of all cannabis.

Just doing the moderation thing.. Nothing intended..

 

[2Lazy]

I created my own regular seed stock by crossing some BC Big Bud with some G13 x Hash plant. Out of the 18 plants I've grown to maturity, 3 have been all female, 2 have been "mostly" female (with some male parts on the lower branches, removed without problem), and the other 9 have been male or mostly male.

I have temperature issues in my grow, I've been working on it but over the last 2 grows my day time average was 80 and my night time average was 68. Next one will be different. Still though, I just bought fem'd seeds because I'm thinking 10 of those is going to give me at least 3 females to work with, and compared to my own stock at the moment that's alright with me.

 

[the_red_bull]

Dunno boss, I don't fuck with fem seeds anyway. And I've gotten some flack when I've said why. So I usually don't even touch the subject.

 

[jjs]

Rather than shit can people about feminized and LED's how about taking some time to understand about both , Personally I wouldnt touch feminized with a 10ft pole because what chemicals are being used to create them? Also I was skeptical at first with LED's myself owning one but I can say the proof is in the pudding with veg.

 

[johnny butt]

I don't see why a plants sex has to be based purely on the male/female genes. In nature some fish and frogs have been shown to spontaneously switch sex when the opposite sex is not around. Why can't some cannabis have this hidden in their DNA somewhere? As said earlier, its all about survival. Mother nature is crafty. Oversimplification is a bitch....

Given that, I'll grow out my regular packs, choose my males, and make my own beans and my own selections and not worry about the femmed seeds 'tainting the gene pool' as some may put it. The gene pool is entirely too big to be taken over by femmed seeds...

As far as autoflowers, that's what 12/12 is for... You want buds fast, go 12/12 from seed and 'trick' the plant into reproducing earlier. Either that or learn a little patience, and give a little veg. It works well even in the smallest of cabs with all the training techniques you can read about on the 'misinformation inter-web'... Screw the ruderalis ditchweed indoors...

I only see autoflowers being relevant for an early outdoor harvest and these people growing autos in cabs make me sad... Even then, you can pull a spring harvest by manipulating light cycles outside or planting in the shade at the right time...

I guess I agree with the OP, though for different reasons... If others want to mess with the above, go for it. They just aren't for me....


JB


Oh, and I don't have any experience with LEDs, but I do have a CMH on the way to supplement my HPS!!

 

[Travieso]

Rather than shit can people about feminized and LED's how about taking some time to understand about both , Personally I wouldnt touch feminized with a 10ft pole because what chemicals are being used to create them? Also I was skeptical at first with LED's myself owning one but I can say the proof is in the pudding with veg.

Some use CS to reverse a plant and then collect the pollen from that reversed plant to hit other plants. whats wrong with that? people actually drink CS!

 

[summitoker]

Fem seeds suck just when you think your set with some big$$ fems from paradise is about the time they blow nanners and screw up the whole room. Waste of time.

 

[Dalaihempy]

It is my belief when man fucks with nature nature will fuck with man here read this GM food was sed to be safe to rember.

Fears grow as study shows genetically modified crops 'can cause liver and kidney damage'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cause-liver-kidney-damage.html#ixzz0jlSxVrUl

There is a large difference in a female plant late in flower throwing a few nannas and making a small number of seeds basically self preservation which is more common than most think in cannabis plants than a person using chems to turn a female plant into a male and then using it to then pollinate a female version of its self its just madness in my books.

In a small amount of time most have gone to making female seeds how many are breeding now days so when every one turns to making female seeds its going to benefit who the cannabis community ? The cannabis plant ? think agine it only benefits the few that don't breed and only pollinate a selected plant by using a chemically olted male of its self yep the cannabis community has gone full circle.

The strains of even 20 years ago are basically gone i hear preservation used a lot also a croc of shit who in fact has offered old school genetics ? Best most offer is hybrids of them we the cannabis community are the plants worse enemy the people that would love to see this plant eradicated are siting back and smiling at us.

How many of these so breeders offering fem seeds have grown out there offerings a few generations down the road bet few the fact people have found males in these fem seeds hermmies by the truck load don't seam to worrie to many only way to stop it is to support breeders that offer normal seeds no point winging time to act.

 

[kannubis]

I have grown femmed Purple Lady and Blue Venom. Neither hermied on me. 1 purple lady is sitting in the corner of my tent being abused by revegging, potsizing, heat & humidity issues - no sign of herming from her yet, but will stick her in the dirt outside in July - I'll know for sure by mid Sept if she'll herm.

I crossed Purple Lady to a Kush, and had 3/20 starts of the crosses throw nanners. Killed the herms, the males, and the weaker ladies, but still harveyed some tasty and mind-shifting herb.

Was this from the femmed mother, or from the Kush, or from my own error?

I have also had non-femmed beans herm on me that were not cheap; 2/20 starts threw nanners on 2 different runs.

Lowrider is okay for bad neck pain if you gotta go to work and highly function. Sour60 is way better IME. I wanted to try em, so I did.

Have not made a decision about LEDs, because I have not tried em myself. Yet.

I am in this for personal use, and a bit (or a bunch) for friends/fellow patients, so I will just keep trying new things, and see what else is out there. Life is supposed to be an adventure, is it not? And I did hit every lady in my tent last run with Lowrider pollen just to see how the offspring will turn out, not like I'm gonna put em on the bay for $200 or anything, they'll just go in a pot on the porch.
Growing hermie auto beans to me would still be preferable to paying dispensary prices!

I also have faith in organic soil for great taste, and chems in coco and other man-made media because they are all a means to an end. Hopefully an end to pain for all who need/want it.

 

[InsanityRules]

Just another form of hype...

This fad shall pass too....

Breeders have lost the love of the plants and have been blinded by the get rich quick and get out before shit goes down scheme. Sure beats putting in years on a strain to perfection! Plus there's so many fucking hacks climbing out of the woodwork claiming to be breeders but actualy just chucking pollen and the sheep eat it up!!!!!

Bottom line....Money honey!