why not breed with fem'd seed?

[DocLeaf]

Good post kopite here comes Big Ben again,, hehe

I've heard the big pharma comps like the Codex..... anyway it doesn't force you its a voluntury thing is it not ? its just that its recognised by the WTO, the main issue is vitamins vs drugs with the Codex...

well I like to make my own informed decisions based on facts...

Good stuff. Please arm yourself with knowledge...

Codex Alimentarius

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alimentarius

http://www.codexalimentarius.net/web/index_en.jsp

http://www.globalresearch.ca/books/SoD.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyLI8UVdTzQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyLI8UVdTzQ

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5800206429960925518

There's lots of info. out there...

 

[Cinderella99]

For what it's worth...

For what it's worth...

My feeling is that the answer to this question really is based on statistics. The devil is in the details and I think it requires a common sense reply:

If you apply a chemical or otherwise stress a plant to produce the opposite flower, you are going to get the most sex organs from the plants that are easily stressed--ie: plants that have the hermie trait to switch hit quickest and are least "sure" of their sexuality. If you look at the broader picture, this principle means that depending on the level of stress, depending on the size of the group and depending on which particular female plant (flower inducing circumstances, size of population and your specific example--and her resistance to the hermie trait) your seeds come from will dictate how likely the seeds are to maintain any hermie trait.

So, for example, if you have one plant, that's a switch hitter when you leave the light on an extra hour (=easily stressed), then the prodigy is most likely to be switch hitting...

"It depends", like any other accurate answer. You can't simply brand all fem seeds as either hermie prone or not. There's prolly a natural and general tendency to carry those traits since, on a mass scale, flowers of the "most unsure" appear first.

I would say that carrying hermie trait in fem seed is prolly a function of how (much) the plants were stressed and how big the sample was. Even then it depends on luck and which particular fem mother your seeds came from.

In a word, my feeling is that the harder it is to stress a plant to produce the opposite flower, the less hermie prone prodigy will be.

This is, of course, strictly theory based and hypotheitcal and, as always, my simple opinion. Peace.

 

[DocLeaf]

That makes sense. ^^

Q. Do flowers from feminized seeds contain the same resin profile as flowers from regular seeds of the same lineage?

 

[Owl Mirror]

Ugh! I will have to learn to use a data base!
Jack

Have you seen this yet ?

http://velvet2k8.weebly.com/download.html

 

[lost in a sea]

The topic is not "Perpetuate cannabis using only femmed seed lines".

The question is if there is a problem using femmed seeds to breed with. And nobody can tell me why I need the male involved and what the problem actually is if he is not.

there is no problem if you have a male of a different strain to the girl, and you want to make a hybrid, because the girls from this will take an X chromosome from the new dad and the femmed girl.

if you want to refine or breed out the genetics of your girl, and not hybridize her with something, the only problem is, you dont have the males that carry the mother's X chromosome to hit back to the girl/s to refine the line and the mix of alleles down to a specimin you want. its a small problem and with more work like i said in my last post you can do it.

 

[Care Free 1]

I just got done reading this thread, and I have a question.

Who here has bought a pack of femmed seeds and hit them with male pollen from a decent stud to find out what happens? Alot of talk about theory, but I havent seen any examples posted up of any results, or experiments.

Surely someone that has posted in this thread has experimented with this, so lets see some results!!! If hermies or quality issues are a result of this process, then why would anyone want to devote so much energy and time dealing with breeding femmed plants?

For me, I'd buy the femmed seeds for small closet grows where space is an issue, or large outdoor guerilla grows, but would not consider breeding with them when there are so many issues that could arrise.

 

[GMT]

I believe what we are dealing with is the fall out of several years of mis info flooding the scene. It was commonly passed around that the pollen from a hermie would create femminised seeds. Therefore femminised seeds were passed around that were hermies. So they got a bad rep. Now the breeding side has moved on a bit, and these issues seem to be less common place, but confidence in using them for breeding programs hasn't yet returned, so examples are too few on the ground to point to right now.

 

[DocLeaf]

Who here has bought a pack of femmed seeds and hit them with male pollen from a decent stud to find out what happens? Alot of talk about theory, but I havent seen any examples posted up of any results, or experiments.

Yeah we did in 2005

see post #41

edit: the male used was the same male Sensi Star used in Saxon Axe.

 

[Care Free 1]

Missed that one DocLeaf.

Thanks. Interesting you said you would not use it anymore for future projects.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I believe what we are dealing with is the fall out of several years of mis info flooding the scene. It was commonly passed around that the pollen from a hermie would create femminised seeds. Therefore femminised seeds were passed around that were hermies. So they got a bad rep. Now the breeding side has moved on a bit, and these issues seem to be less common place, but confidence in using them for breeding programs hasn't yet returned, so examples are too few on the ground to point to right now.

I have had terrible luck with any fem seeds from greenhouse or white label. I have problems with seedlings dying or seeds not sprouting. I dont ever have this problem with other seed companies I have used. I like arjan's strains, but I wont order the fem seeds from them anymore.

 

[DocLeaf]

It would still be VERY interesting to see what happens in lineage if/when a breeder inbreeds their own (fem.) x (reg.) line.

Like you say Care Free 1 theory and practise aren't always the same thing when dealing with living material

 

[Care Free 1]

Well GMT and DocLeaf, I might just have to experiment with this myself. The lastest methods of fem'ing seeds and genetics used might give different results from earlier days, but until I prove it out myself, I will remain a sceptic.

It really cant hurt to try I guess, but it wont be anywhere near my regular grows just in case.

 

[Cinderella99]

Care Free (I used to chew that f*k'n gum and live in a town called that)...With all due respect bro-- and I have much respect for you:

Here's the point-- you can't generalize on all fem seeds. Some may be good for breeding and some may not. Depends.

So, if ya get some cracker to weigh in w/actual experience, there are prolly no absolutes/generalities you can draw that apply to your sitiation...Ya dig?

 

[Cinderella99]

See, now that's f8kn useful...

See, now that's f8kn useful...

I have had terrible luck with any fem seeds from greenhouse or white label. I have problems with seedlings dying or seeds not sprouting. I dont ever have this problem with other seed companies I have used. I like arjan's strains, but I wont order the fem seeds from them anymore.

Let's talk about hermie tendencies within a progeny group from specific fem breeders of a certain batch date, yes?

 

[Care Free 1]

What I do "dig" is the fact that I can do what ever I want to do.

What got me to reading this thread to begin with is the sucessful grow one of my local testers had with fem Jack Flash from Sensi Seeds. He had no hermie issues, and wanted to breed this with one of my Jack Herer studs, but I was rather sceptical about the outcome after reading about what some professional breeders opinions are about working with fem plants. This thread has only brought up more uncertanty about the subject IMO.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

There's nothing wrong with using fem'd seeds to breed with. Just don't expect to get enough variation to move foreward much. A concept that took me years to understand is that reducing variation within a given line is not the same as increasing the frequency of similar traits. If your goal is simply to produce a reasonably open pollinated strain, feminizing can bring reduced variability without pushing down many generations.

 

[Owl Mirror]

Not to throw a monkey wrench in the works but, has anyone thought about how to recreate a breeding line from clone-only strains ?
I came upon some info a while back that laid out a process of turning a true female clone in to a true male plant. I've never tried it yet, it does bring to mind the questions from earlier conversations of how fem seed reduces the male tendencies. This process is purported to reverse that process and bring about the recessive male gene.
If interested, I could post the info I have.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Was this cannabis?
I would be interested in seeing that study.

 

[Owl Mirror]

Was this cannabis?
I would be interested in seeing that study.

Yes it was specific for cannabis.
I didn't save the link unfortunately but, I did strip out the pertinent data and saved it in a txt file.

I'll see if I can locate it.

EDIT: ---------

Here is the info I saved

Certain environmental conditions may force a female clone to revert to a male plant.
Begin with a properly rooted known female clone and, applying these sets of environmental criteria should produce the changes in the plants predetermined sex.

Apply this combination of environmental factors:

More red light will give more males so, veg under an HPS red spectrum light.
The HPS spectrum will begin stimulating the hormones of the plants
Longer hours of light will give more males so, veg under a 20-24 hour light-on schedule.
Both a lower humidity and a higher temperature will give more males.
Lastly, begin a supply of nutrients that contains a higher potassium concentration.

Lower humidity and a higher temperature, a higher potassium concentration and, the Red spectrum of HPS.

Like I said, I found it somewhere and found it interesting.
It was in a format that I couldn't cut&paste so I had to write it out myself in short-hand.
Don't hold me to it but, it might prove an interesting experiment.
Let me know if it in fact works !

 

[THC farmer]

i wnat to know what is up with the new article or actually the "article in whole" in the new issue of treating yourselfe about the dutch seed compnies getting funding from the dea and making feminized seeds so no one can breed true medical grade cannabis. like they were saying that in the 20"s through the 40"s the grass back then could not be touched by any of the starins out there today. i read the article 3X and still it is unclear what the author is trying to say if any one can clear it up for me that would be great cuzz it comes off as a really fucked up thing that is going on. and supposedly it was been going on with sam the skunkmans cultivator choice seeds. the us govt. told him to not let his seeds to be used for breeding and to flod the a=market with watered down genetics? looking for anyone who has read the article.