why not breed with fem'd seed?

[odin_]

there is no such thing as a true female

all cannabis plants can show either sex when stressed and/or given hormones

 

[DocLeaf]

This now seeded, feminized Critical [RQS] clone is 10 months old from seed,, and 3 months from old clone (approx). Initially cultivated and pollinated outdoors

We'll keep yo updated

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Sam has told me in internet discussions on feminizing that he has found plants that even STS does not reverse. These are the plants he refers to as "true female".

I have seen his discussion on this too, and I didn't read it that way. I believe he will state that his moms, that breed true for no hermie, must be forced using STS and that no light stress works on them.

 

[odin_]

I have seen his discussion on this too, and I didn't read it that way. I believe he will state that his moms, that breed true for no hermie, must be forced using STS and that no light stress works on them.

this is the only thing that it can be

the plant is resistant to light stress, but it is still possible to get the plant to produce its own pollen

what breeders call true females are the plants that are most resistant to stress and least likely to show its herm traits - that is far different than a true female that does not have the potential to show herm traits
all cannabis are genetically herms, though there are females that are very hard to make turn

 

[DocLeaf]

Uk Cheese clone (Sam's Skunk #1) does NOT stress or produce hermaphrodites naturally. 100's of growers grow Cheese every week and never get selfed-seeds or herms... no matter how hard they stress her (cat's claim it,, but never displayed credible results). fake-ass. Anyhow the original UK Cheese isn't feminised,, noever was, never will be,, so who cares,, let's get this topic back on track please folks

breeding with feminised seeds ,, why snot?

Peace

 

[VerdantGreen]

my DP Blueberry FEM mum is well over a year old now and seems fine so far

i still plan to make some seeds with her but the first attempt didnt work - the geurilla gold pollen didnt take on anything i tried - whilst other pollen collected and stored in the same way worked fine. perhaps the gg male was sterile??

 

[DocLeaf]

Interesting stuff

We only tried it twice,, once with White Pearl (fem.) x Sensi Star,, and now with Critical (fem.) x W.Widow x Free Tibet ,, both made seeds ok. The Marbled White seeds made in 2005 had a low germ rate from seed line fem. parent , but the dope it gave was dope , with fat colas

 

[VerdantGreen]

this was a response from Tom Hill in the haze male/female thread. hope he doesnt mind me reproducing it here but i thought it was relevant - what a very respected breeder had to say about selfing and fem breeding

Hiya Brother Bone,

There was variation in the F1 because it wasn't an F1, it was a BC1, one that I would expect to lean heavily towards the PTK - being that PTK breeds true for many traits. Because the keeper mom is in actuality a 4way hybrid and heterozygous, you can backcross to it as many times as you like and will not likely go anywhere - no risk of inbreeding, only reliving groundhog day over and over - going nowhere. You'll maybe not like to hear this, as if my memory serves you've come out against the reversal in the past. Let go of all that prejudice amigo, it is unfounded imo, that's my best advice. Self that keeper ssh/ptk, stop throwing more hay on the pile or you may find the needle you are searching for might be increasingly more difficult to find. When something truly spectacular has been located but proves heterozygous, go in, fast and intensive and for the throat - without adding (for no apparent reason) any additional hay to the pile that we are rummaging through. When we locate that same brilliance that proves itself homozygous in the same line, then we go out, not before imo. Biglove amigo. -T

.......
Examples are best I think.

Self the SSH/PTK keeper. Grow out 100 S1's. Save the top 5% for further testing. Self these (1)-(5) S1 keepers (candidates) and grow out at least 30 each of their S2 seed. Candidate (1) has 5 of 30 progeny that are any good, so we discard candidate (1). Candidate (2) has 10 of 30 that are good and is also discarded, etc, etc. Candidate (4) produces 25 outstanding plants out of 30 - ranking highest, candidate (4) is our breeder. Repeat the selfing of candidate (4), and release this as a female line and/or begin testing to other lines to release a truly superior F1 (or maybe cube (4) if adverse to fem seed). By testing to relatively removed and true breeding lines like Blueberry, NL, SK1, DC, C99 etc, we will increase the odds of a truly uniform and superior F1. This is how "real" breeders of outcrossing species (corn etc) often do things - more or less. -T

 

[odin_]

Uk Cheese clone (Sam's Skunk #1) does NOT stress or produce hermaphrodites naturally. 100's of growers grow Cheese every week and never get selfed-seeds or herms... no matter how hard they stress her (cat's claim it,, but never displayed credible results). fake-ass. Anyhow the original UK Cheese isn't feminised,, noever was, never will be,, so who cares,, let's get this topic back on track please folks

breeding with feminised seeds ,, why snot?

Peace

my point was simply that whether a plant naturally or normally herms or not, all cannabis plants have the potential to herm - some are much more resistant or if you are trying to make them herm some are hard to make turn, but genetically its possible


as to the ops question - i dont really see the problem with breeding with fems
with regular seed stock: you expect something like half males/half females/small amount that always herm
with fems: you expect half herms/half female/small amount showing male

either way you have to grow out the plants to confirm if they are stable females, one way you kill the males off, one way you kill the herms off
it isnt like all the fems crosses will be herms, just as all the regular seed stock crosses wont be male...



another thing i didnt really want to bring into it, but that means alot is that environment plays a very big role in what plants do - what i mean is that some people will grow out the same exact seeds and have diff results
stress is a very common way for people to end up with alot of herms, where another grower might not end up with one herm out of the same pack

that goes back to what you guys were saying with the mother/clone issue as well

it is true that a clone will have the same exact genetics as the original mother - it surely is not true that a clone 50 generations from the original will (always) have the same characteristics (potency, growth rate, etc)
even growers that get clones off the same mother will see different growth patterns if one has a great grow room compared to a shitty one
i do think that since the original genetics are still there, that it is possible to get alot of the good characteristics back if the plants are growing in optimal situations (for however long it takes to get the plants back on track)
but you cant simply take clones off of a stressed half dead mother and put them into a great room and expect to get the same results as someone who has a perfect mother (from the same original mother)
a bit convoluted but i think you get the point

 

[DocLeaf]

Yo all

To reiterate,, it is possible to make seeds from feminized stock. FRT did it twice,,!

Once in 2005 with Sensi Star reg. male onto White Pearl fem. aka 'Marbled White' (images in gallery) and once in 2009 with Critical fem. to WW x Free Tibet reg. male aka 'Painted Lady'. The fem. line used in 2005 was likely generated through stress,,, whereas the fem. line used in 2009 was likely generated via chemical fem. methods (we guess). So YES in the real world it is possible to use feminized seeds as parent stock... hence answering the thread question.

IMO the main issue with using feminized stock for breeding with,,, is the lack of (0) males!!!

This leads us to the following question:

What happens if you apply the same chemical process to a feminized seed plant ?


Peace Peace Peace

 

[PhenoMenal]

I've created feminised Cinderella99 seeds from a female that came from a feminised seed. Every seed has grown out almost clone-like (and always female), and there are a few other icmag'ers who've grown them out with the same success.

I've been using and making feminised seeds for several years with nothing but 100% success ... the nay-sayers can say whatever they want for all I care, it's their loss

ps. I prefer colloidal silver over STS or gibberellic acid - see the link in my signature for some reasons why

 

[DocLeaf]

I've created feminised Cinderella99 seeds from a female that came from a feminised seed. Every seed has grown out almost clone-like (and always female), and there are a few other icmag'ers who've grown them out with the same success.

I've been using and making feminised seeds for several years with nothing but 100% success ... the nay-sayers can say whatever they want for all I care, it's their loss

ps. I prefer colloidal silver over STS or gibberellic acid - see the link in my signature for some reasons why

Cool stuff So you feminized ,, feminized stock. Is that correct?

Any loss is the absence of male plants buddy,,, for future generations to breed with,, otherwise i dig what your doing if it makes you self sufficient on the feminized seed front

Peace Peace Peace

Btw i n i nah naysayer,, far from it,, we like to experiment with genetics as much as the next experimenter,, its just that or garden's organic peace out

 

[englishrick]

CAN I JOIN THIS FEM PARTY,,,,,,,,

BOOOP BOOOP,,,,, BEEEP BEEEPPP,,,,,,DOIN THE MASH POTATO,,,,,,,THE SWIM

 

[englishrick]

This leads us to the following question:

What happens if you apply the same chemical process to a feminized seed plant ?

i gota admit,,,,,,,,i believe that sex in a single specific enviroment is dangerous,,,,,but WHEN exactly is it hazardous to health, im not exactly sure!!!,,,,,,,

only time will tell,,,an we need backup ,,,gota back the lot up,,,,,,,

we NEED Doc Browns DeLorean,,,,im hittin 88miles an hour allready,,,i just need the vehical

 

[DocLeaf]

CAN I JOIN THIS FEM PARTY,,,

Only if you are prepared to wear a skirt rick Otherwise stay well away,, the flames in these topics might just Rabbie Burns ya sporran man ...lol

Even the most hardened dope-hed can get snowballed over round here by these wiley ganja-cats,, they're on the ball they can even quote you if you say something when stoned

 

[englishrick]

"ganja cats",,,,,,,,,,ever heard a cat crying in the night doc?,,,,,lol,,,,,the nabours cat drives me mad,,,,,,nudnic kasama ,chup car,,,,bloody cat!,,,,sounds like a baby,,,very disturbing,,,i gota put-up with it tho,,the nabour is family

 

[englishrick]

while everybodys dancing to the YMCA,,,,,,im just havin fun,,,,,,,,,,waiting for the 1 true love of my life to tell me them special words,,,,love will last forever,,,lets try to enjoy the time we have now,,,,,, ,lol