i heard that it is not good to breed with fem'd seed,can someone please tell me why?and explain it to me like i'm 5 years old!
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why not breed with fem'd seed?
- Thread starter chongsbuddy
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fem seeds are made by "selfing" a regular female plant...
"Fem"/selfed seeds are technicly called "S" seeds,,,,,eg S1 = Selfed 1st generation....S2= Selfed 2nd generation,,,S3= Selfed 3rd generation
its up to you to decide if S seeds are good to breed with,,,,its imposible to say Yes or No,,,it waould cause a massive debate and we will never get to the bottom of it,,,,,
hope this helps bro
"Fem"/selfed seeds are technicly called "S" seeds,,,,,eg S1 = Selfed 1st generation....S2= Selfed 2nd generation,,,S3= Selfed 3rd generation
its up to you to decide if S seeds are good to breed with,,,,its imposible to say Yes or No,,,it waould cause a massive debate and we will never get to the bottom of it,,,,,
hope this helps bro
Solidopc
Active member
Not all fem seeds are selfed. In my opinion, selfed fems are not as good as crossed fems. Best fems i've had have been crosses of two different strains, or crosses using pollen from up to 3 other strains to pollenate the chosen mother. I also find selfed seeds are not more uniform. If anything i find them more varied.
For me, if you have a plant from a fem seed, that produces wonderful bud, and is stable, it will be fine to be used in breeding. I say this because if the plant is genetically stable and female, and gives you what you want, it is no different than any other female plant you might find. Others disagree i know and think it's not good to breed with fem seeds
Their main reason (in past debates) seems to be breeding with these plants will produce hermie offspring. But in my experience of growing fem and regular seeds, which is quite extensive now, i've never once had a hermie from a fem seed, but have from regular seeds a couple of times, so it never quite stacks up with what i have seen with my own eyes. Granted i havn't tried all the fem companies, but i've tried alot of them.
For me, if you have a plant from a fem seed, that produces wonderful bud, and is stable, it will be fine to be used in breeding. I say this because if the plant is genetically stable and female, and gives you what you want, it is no different than any other female plant you might find. Others disagree i know and think it's not good to breed with fem seeds
Their main reason (in past debates) seems to be breeding with these plants will produce hermie offspring. But in my experience of growing fem and regular seeds, which is quite extensive now, i've never once had a hermie from a fem seed, but have from regular seeds a couple of times, so it never quite stacks up with what i have seen with my own eyes. Granted i havn't tried all the fem companies, but i've tried alot of them.
There shouldn't be any problem with using femmed seeds for breeding, if the parents are chosen wisely. Just as with regular seeds. The hermie thing comes from bad selection, just like with regular seeds.
The only potential issue is, there are some who feel that there may be male specific genetic material that is not getting passed on when using forced females to breed with.
But...perhaps that is not a bad thing...maybe the males are responsible for all the hermie genes? Maybe the male passes them on as dominant genes, and perhaps the females as a recessive gene?
Imagine that we don't use males for several generations...and we notice some sort of deficiency start to crop up...well, it wouldn't take much to BOOM add the male genes back to the pool with one fell swoop.
The only potential issue is, there are some who feel that there may be male specific genetic material that is not getting passed on when using forced females to breed with.
But...perhaps that is not a bad thing...maybe the males are responsible for all the hermie genes? Maybe the male passes them on as dominant genes, and perhaps the females as a recessive gene?
Imagine that we don't use males for several generations...and we notice some sort of deficiency start to crop up...well, it wouldn't take much to BOOM add the male genes back to the pool with one fell swoop.
True True my mistake,,,not all fem seeds are "S lines",, FemOutcrosses come under the "fem seed" headding too,,,like Mss x OGKA
So...which "male-specific genes" are to be found in females?! wow that's really something to worry about ...
some people just dont think straight.
...theyre the same ones who are adamant that feminization causes hermaphroditism, they worry about losing the Y chromosome forever and do not understand that theyre doing their own damage to the genepool with their stupid pointless intercrosses of small populations.. WITH MALES duhhhhhhh.
some people just dont think straight.
...theyre the same ones who are adamant that feminization causes hermaphroditism, they worry about losing the Y chromosome forever and do not understand that theyre doing their own damage to the genepool with their stupid pointless intercrosses of small populations.. WITH MALES duhhhhhhh.
ive got a feelin the sex is not as simple as a missing Y chromozone,,,
I've made selfed seeds only once, out of curiosity. It was in the mid 80's and the resulting seedbatch was very uniform. Too uniform to make selections, so I just gave them away to friends who enjoyed no male grows. Many friends save bagseed for me, and they are often all female, but no way to tell whether selfed or crossed. Most often the all female bagseed will be too uniform for breeding as well. It's like starting with a clone because you have to outcross.
wickid post...lots of good info,,,mutch respect!
yeh man, enviroment an selective-breeding can do funny things to plants and seedlines
what do you think about males poping up in XX chromozone seedlines ...would you say them males are they extreem hermies?
i have done a lot of reading around this subject because i have a great Bluberry from femmed seed that i am thinkng of breeding from. My conclusions (in theory) are that selection is everything. - if you select a stable female that has the traits you desire and then cross it to a regular male, it doesnt matter if it was from femmed seed or not. the missing chromazome will be replaced in that cross.
I read many bad things about fem seeds but i believe most of it is not based on scientific fact - rather it is mostly hearsay, superstition and snobbery. People who have actually done some breeding using femmed seeds seem to experience good results.
this debate will run and run, and it's good that there will be people who 'protect' their lines and some who do something different that they believe in.
V.
I read many bad things about fem seeds but i believe most of it is not based on scientific fact - rather it is mostly hearsay, superstition and snobbery. People who have actually done some breeding using femmed seeds seem to experience good results.
this debate will run and run, and it's good that there will be people who 'protect' their lines and some who do something different that they believe in.
V.
It depends on what you mean by 'good results'. If your goal is merely to create a seedbatch that grows a lot of very similar plants, then selfing is a much quicker solution than pushing two sexes down 5-7 generations. Problem with seedbatches of very similar plants is they're not much use to breeders because the lack of variation amounts to a bottleneck, meaning you're stuck and can't improve over generations.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 'stable female'. I hear this term thrown around a lot (more and more recently), but in the 41 years I've grown this plant, I don't think anyone has explained it to my satisfaction. Stability in breeding is usually talked about in terms of traits. Like I might say, "This strain is stable for this and that trait", but if I declare a plant itself to be 'stable', what exactly am I saying?
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 'stable female'. I hear this term thrown around a lot (more and more recently), but in the 41 years I've grown this plant, I don't think anyone has explained it to my satisfaction. Stability in breeding is usually talked about in terms of traits. Like I might say, "This strain is stable for this and that trait", but if I declare a plant itself to be 'stable', what exactly am I saying?
Just a mixup in terminology really, where VG says "stable female" what he means is one that does not express hermie tendancies even when pushed by extreme stress. This seems to be the general consensus amongst the more open minded breeders.. if you make selections from feminised seed, selfed or hybridised, the fact that your eventual P1 choice is from fem stock shouldn't matter, as long as that female doesn't express hermie traits when stressed.
Whether that parent breeds true for other traits is a completely different issue of course.
yes, thanks snap, thats what i meant by 'stable'.
i wouldnt go out of my way to breed with femmed plants but if my best plant is from a fem, and ive run it a few times and no herms (just a couple of male flowers in the buds when over-ripened) then i will give it a try.
with a variety like Blueberry that you hear so many horror stories about herms,mutants, slow growth, low yeild etc - i have a plant that smells like Bb, no herms, high yield and beautiful structure. its the favorite of all my friends even though it isnt as strong as many of my strains, and every new strain i grow just makes me realise just how good my Bb is.
then i'm going to try outcrossing it and check the results - even though it was from a fem seed.
i understand why people would be hesitant about fems, and i respect that. But a great plant is a great plant. selection is everything and you have to select the best you have available, otherwise you are just mugging yourself (imo).
V.
i wouldnt go out of my way to breed with femmed plants but if my best plant is from a fem, and ive run it a few times and no herms (just a couple of male flowers in the buds when over-ripened) then i will give it a try.
with a variety like Blueberry that you hear so many horror stories about herms,mutants, slow growth, low yeild etc - i have a plant that smells like Bb, no herms, high yield and beautiful structure. its the favorite of all my friends even though it isnt as strong as many of my strains, and every new strain i grow just makes me realise just how good my Bb is.
then i'm going to try outcrossing it and check the results - even though it was from a fem seed.
i understand why people would be hesitant about fems, and i respect that. But a great plant is a great plant. selection is everything and you have to select the best you have available, otherwise you are just mugging yourself (imo).
V.
said like a man after my own heart Mr Snap
This is a subject that I have recently had my mind changed on. I used to feel that the question "should I breed with femmed seed" was pretty much a 2 letter answer, but now I see things differently. Since a female plant should only be using genes relevant to a female plant's growth, then all of those genes should be passed on by 2 mothers as easily as 1 mother. So by creating a femmed line (depending on how it was done and what it was done with), it should not be harming the female line at all. Once a male is introduced, at what ever generation down the line, then the male line is back. So I have to agree with what has been said, so long as it's a good girl, then find her a good guy and you should get interesting kids.
wow,,,big words GMT,,,,,im lovin your way of thinkin..
what you said is exactly the way i see it
good to see ya GMT
what you said is exactly the way i see it
good to see ya GMT
J
JackTheGrower
Thanks and how interesting.
Thanks and how interesting.
I too am thinking about selfing Fem'd and breeding Fem'd.
I'm working on working on a mother/clone box..
I don't know if we would do good to track how many "levels" we go with Fem'd genetics or if that might help in some way to learn anything..
I'm thinking about Fem as a designator for sure.. SFem-ed I can understand too.
But I ponder the usefulness of tracking the levels of breeding, in house any way..
I was thinking I could keep track of the crosses by numbering them so that If I make Selfed seeds I can know if an issue crops up in one generation that I can use earlier or go back before the cross ( if I made a cross to get there ) and try something different.
Ugh! I will have to learn to use a data base!
Any comments on the notation of Fem and SFem ?
I have more thinking time then anything else right now..
Jack
Thanks and how interesting.
I too am thinking about selfing Fem'd and breeding Fem'd.
I'm working on working on a mother/clone box..
I don't know if we would do good to track how many "levels" we go with Fem'd genetics or if that might help in some way to learn anything..
I'm thinking about Fem as a designator for sure.. SFem-ed I can understand too.
But I ponder the usefulness of tracking the levels of breeding, in house any way..
I was thinking I could keep track of the crosses by numbering them so that If I make Selfed seeds I can know if an issue crops up in one generation that I can use earlier or go back before the cross ( if I made a cross to get there ) and try something different.
Ugh! I will have to learn to use a data base!
Any comments on the notation of Fem
and SFem ?I have more thinking time then anything else right now..
Jack
