why is watering down sativas still a thing?

[nepalnt21]

needs to go in the bin.

but that's like tossing the baby with the bathwater!

some people like big, fat, dense buds that have been trimmed so much they look like an already carved ham, i like some larf. i prefer it. and i would be totally happy with any of those old school sativa buds up there, if the effect is there.

in my opinion, bag appeal is an afterthought. if it has bag appeal... good, i guess or whatever.

the consumer tells the breeder what they will buy.

it's not like that around here, unfortunately.

the dispensaries basically have cookies, cake, ice cream sherbert and gelato, etc etc... even my beloved chem strains are often unobtanium. years ago i found two ace sativas (golden tiger as well as purple haze malawi iirc), but honestly i think most people just go for something named for dessert and with a stupid high thc %

i know there ARE growers (colorado, pnw, etc) that produce connoisseur sativas for the market, just not here.

speaking of wordy, lol oops...

people want to get stoned,

well and i'm right there, i often smoke to get medicated and that means stoned. i feel like i'm missing something if i don't have a body high. it's the icing, for sure.

but i also don't feel high unless i get those alerts of electricity... i need a head high to feel the complete weed experience...

but other times i like to take a tolerance break, get some super high ceiling stuff and get really lifted... and i think a body high might hold it back from blasting off ALL the way to space.

i guess it depends on a buncha factors. two different strains can be VERY different ime, and i love variety.

one time my friends and i got this shit called "death" and it was a super fluffy and kinda larfy (but really high quality, plenty of resin), smelled of (complex) lemon pine- sol. very very sativa-y stuff.

we smoked and then we were ON TOP OF THE WORLD!!! it was just so euphoric, thought- provoking, electric and soaring, etc... some of the best we've ever seen.

then our buddy pulls out some white widow, (also some well grown, quality stuff) ...and we proceeded to... SOBER UP? WTF?!?! i'll never forgive that white widow...

 

[@hempy]

There is a huge difference in flower being grown for market and the flower being grown for personal use by growers and not every one wants to smoke a sativa.

In a perfect world you would have your pure sativas and your pure indicas and hybrids and polys and people could have options of what they wanted to grow and smoke, but we don't live in that world.

The reality is growers wanted the hybrids and polys they drove what breeders did in the early Dutch seed days most people can't grow even a 50% sativa were the live and the smoker that go to dispensaries continue to drive the direction of the market and so the home grower in the seed market.

 

[ojd]

They are available but not cheap , you want exotic sativa grown flowers they are there, but same price as best Haze you find in Amsterdam, but much better quality as Organic Soil grown flowers, taken to 13 weeks minimum, 3 week flush.

Check out my mate the

40andoverflowerclub

Launching next month

 

[Rgd]

Literally no market here for it.

to use a juxtaposed quote from Treasure of the High Sierras


"market..?..we doan nee no steenkeen market"


dude..we want great weed ..and much of that scraggly old stuff in the photo is great weed

 

[ojd]

For exotic sativa Chasers looks is bottom of the list.

Top to bottom of list for me

1. High
2. Taste
3. Vigour
4. Yield
5. Look

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

So old people are telling us that everything is shit nowadays and 30 years ago everything was a heaven because you had this mythical plant that barely anyone can grow nowadays, with modern technology. But back then it was so easy to do that there was nothing else available?

Regarding the supposed effect. The scientific literature is full of the importance of set and setting. People take psychedelics and feel no effect or take placebo in a psychedelic trial and tripping. Heroin users who OD on their normal dose because they are not at home but in an unfamiliar setting. Cannabis users who prefer the effect of flower whose smell they like (but no correlation to THC, terpenes etc.).
Why should cannabis be any different than anything else entering the human body? Why are 30 year old memories valid controls?

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I think lots of consumers are fooled by the name game and bag appeal hype. Someone told them bud density and purple was a sign of quality. But they are slowly learning the difference. Took me a while to see a picture of a frosty brown string of calyx and consider that appealing. But once you know you know.

And some people get out of work and want to smoke a bowl of something that makes them not want to move. Some people do not want weed that makes them think. These people will likely never hop on the sativa bus.

 

[kaboom777]

So old people are telling us that everything is shit nowadays and 30 years ago everything was a heaven because you had this mythical plant that barely anyone can grow nowadays, with modern technology. But back then it was so easy to do that there was nothing else available?

Regarding the supposed effect. The scientific literature is full of the importance of set and setting. People take psychedelics and feel no effect or take placebo in a psychedelic trial and tripping. Heroin users who OD on their normal dose because they are not at home but in an unfamiliar setting. Cannabis users who prefer the effect of flower whose smell they like (but no correlation to THC, terpenes etc.).
Why should cannabis be any different than anything else entering the human body? Why are 30 year old memories valid controls?

People did not grow it, it was imported from South America, Asia, Mexico, etc. Cannabis is no longer exported, now other more lucrative things are grown and exported.

Different plants have different effects that's a fact.

Of course the effects are affected by the environment and context, a more "electric" variety consumed in a nervous or hostile environment is more likely to produce paranoia and bad effects.

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

Different plants have different effects that's a fact.

Is it though? It's repeated often enough to be perceived as a fact but evidence points in a different direction.

 

[Yarddog]

I have a true running sativa. Takes 18 weeks. And yield is low. Stretches something awful. I love the smoke. But hate growing it. Haven’t grown it in six years or so.

 

[ojd]

The potency thing on smoking landrace/Haze varieties is a simple thing people never mention , apart from the die hard Sativa junkies.

Thai , Colombian etc etc from 70-80's took along time to get to you, maybe years , minimum 12 months from harvest to your joint,bong etc.
Take any special Sativa/Haze ( special not any shit Sativa/Haze) and after 6 months cure it will be 3 x as strong, maybe 5 x, and if cured perfectly air tight the smells taste 3-5 x better.
But if not cured perfectly the smell/taste will decline over certain time.
Cured excellent and will just get better ( i not smoked any of my jars older than 3 years but that was the best flower i ever had ( lost the jar for 2 years then found and WOW, was best flower ive ever grown)

Normal smokers cant access flower like that these days EVER ( cured for 12 months) unless grown or kept since buying growing and cure it themselves for 6-12 months.

Even me, i try and save it but its hard to keep flower around unless 60 jars full , 30 jars full gets smoked by the time next crop comes

 

[ojd]

Nevil Haze Amsterdam cut from late 90's is the only strain EVER that did that for me without the minimum 6-12 month cure to bring out the real potency.
Haze Sativa's i grow and smoke these days are very potent but not like that insane potency of years back, but cure that for 6 months minimum and guaranteed it will be 3 x as potent ( but has to be special to start with , wont turn something mediocre into Gold

 

[midwestkid]

Is it though? It's repeated often enough to be perceived as a fact but evidence points in a different direction.

please list the last 5 strains you have grown?

 

[VinScentVanGro]

but that's like tossing the baby with the bathwater!

some people like big, fat, dense buds that have been trimmed so much they look like an already carved ham, i like some larf. i prefer it. and i would be totally happy with any of those old school sativa buds up there, if the effect is there.

in my opinion, bag appeal is an afterthought. if it has bag appeal... good, i guess or whatever.





it's not like that around here, unfortunately.

the dispensaries basically have cookies, cake, ice cream sherbert and gelato, etc etc... even my beloved chem strains are often unobtanium. years ago i found two ace sativas (golden tiger as well as purple haze malawi iirc), but honestly i think most people just go for something named for dessert and with a stupid high thc %

i know there ARE growers (colorado, pnw, etc) that produce connoisseur sativas for the market, just not here.

speaking of wordy, lol oops...



well and i'm right there, i often smoke to get medicated and that means stoned. i feel like i'm missing something if i don't have a body high. it's the icing, for sure.

but i also don't feel high unless i get those alerts of electricity... i need a head high to feel the complete weed experience...

but other times i like to take a tolerance break, get some super high ceiling stuff and get really lifted... and i think a body high might hold it back from blasting off ALL the way to space.

i guess it depends on a buncha factors. two different strains can be VERY different ime, and i love variety.

one time my friends and i got this shit called "death" and it was a super fluffy and kinda larfy (but really high quality, plenty of resin), smelled of (complex) lemon pine- sol. very very sativa-y stuff.

we smoked and then we were ON TOP OF THE WORLD!!! it was just so euphoric, thought- provoking, electric and soaring, etc... some of the best we've ever seen.

then our buddy pulls out some white widow, (also some well grown, quality stuff) ...and we proceeded to... SOBER UP? WTF?!?! i'll never forgive that white widow...

Most people aren’t willing to pay 3x the price of commercial weed for some 120d haze. Grow it yourself or pretty much forget about it ever getting again.

 

[Gato420]

I'm just getting into growing pure sativas. She can't sit over to the side and take her time while other things move through the tent.

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

please list the last 5 strains you have grown?

How is that relevant? Anecdotal evidence is at the root of this believe.

To be clear, I'm not disputing that you can experience different subjective effects. I'm questioning if that difference is due to the plant (especially with such ill defined categories such as indica and sativa) and not tied to other factors, such as taste, the story connected to what you're consuming and dose.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

How is that relevant? Anecdotal evidence is at the root of this believe.

For be clear, I'm not disputing that you can experience different subjective effects. I'm questioning if that difference is due to the plant (especially with such ill defined categories such as indica and sativa) and not tied to other factors, such as taste, the story connected to what you're consuming and dose.

As an extreme example that I do not believe anyone who has grown or smoked both could possibly dispute. Smoke some gg#4 and notice how a half hour later all motivation has left the body. You are more or less stoned to the bone. Then smoke some original haze of tom hill haze. And you will be high as a kite. Almost like a mix of caffeine and weak LsD. And this high can last 4 hours or more and have no crash. These are just 2 examples. Some strains are even more couch lock or guarantee a nap. Many are more speedy, introspective or trippy. Most modern varieties are hybrids and fall somewhere in between or with a combination of effect. The reason people cherish a pure NLD or sativa is because in almost all cases once a more sedative variety had been crossed into it the pure energetic electric type high is muddied and rarely captures the essence of the original pure variety.

Obviously all of this is a generalization and some plants break the rules all together.

 

[midwestkid]

How is that relevant? Anecdotal evidence is at the root of this believe.

For be clear, I'm not disputing that you can experience different subjective effects.

Is it though? It's repeated often enough to be perceived as a fact but evidence points in a different direction.

I'm questioning if that difference is due to the plant (especially with such ill defined categories such as indica and sativa) and not tied to other factors, such as taste, the story connected to what you're consuming and dose.

its relevant because if the last 5 varieties you have grown all have a lineage that trickles back to girl scout cookies then ofcourse you are going to percieve all of the effects to be similar.

in your quotes you refer to perception then you speak of evidence... which one is it?

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Never understood why people love cookies so much. Mostly boring smoke with a mid grade buzz.

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

As an extreme example that I do not believe anyone who has grown or smoked both could possibly dispute. Smoke some gg#4 and notice how a half hour later all motivation has left the body. You are more or less stoned to the bone. Then smoke some original haze of tom hill haze. And you will be high as a kite. Almost like a mix of caffeine and weak LsD. And this high can last 4 hours or more and have no crash. These are just 2 examples. Some strains are even more couch lock or guarantee a nap. Many are more speedy, introspective or trippy. Most modern varieties are hybrids and fall somewhere in between or with a combination of effect. The reason people cherish a pure NLD or sativa is because in almost all cases once a more sedative variety had been crossed into it the pure energetic electric type high is muddied and rarely captures the essence of the original pure variety.

Obviously all of this is a generalization and some plants break the rules all together.

You're comparing wildly different potencies. I don't know lab tests of that haze you're speaking of but I'm guessing it's an old strain, with a potency typical for that time, say 5-10 %? Modern strains have easily 25 %+.

Considering that you're saying that smoking 3 times as much gets you really, really stoned. Who would have guessed that.