Why I am voting no on prop 19!

[Quiet_Riot]

This your fear, that you will be out of business, plain and simple.

Not that I know much about all these Cali props, but when reading letitiapepper' analysis it seems very much like it can and will be used against growers, small or big timers.

Give it some thought, the way it's formulated, being a regulation act “This Act shall be known as the “Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010.”) and "Permits Local Governments to Regulate and Tax Commercial Production, Distribution, and Sale of Marijuana.", and the CUA left out, makes it sneaky.
Where will the line be drawn? Can you risk getting jailed or jacked by DEA or locals, if you have a smaller commercial dispensary caring grow going?

It's seems like a open opportunity/loophole to jail or criminalize growers. These will most likely be commercial growers, making "too much" money for someones liking.

I can imagine (don't know, 'cause I'm not in Cali, so many will properly tell me to shut up because of that) that the person supplying disp. is more likely open to attacks from law enforcement with this bill. I can imagine that someone high up doesn't like a lot of socalled patients growing a lot and getting a lot of money. This properly why it will be getting taxed at the same time. It doesn't seem hard to get a med-card, how hard is it getting a suplly-card?

Yes, it's fear-based questions. But the way this whole thing is formulated is just off. Where does the regulation and control stop? Who will take over supply if bigtimers or many smalltimers is taken down? Will the selfsupplying grower and non-selfsupplying patient be hit by this? If one supplies a couple of patients? All these questions may be pointless and based on fear. Just needed to get it off...
The dispesaries already pays a lot of different taxes, I can see it may be fair to contribute so the community by taxing, but it's kinda expensive enough as it is for those not able to grow or doesn't have a good connect, dispensary or not. It's not like it's a 6-pack or a pack of smokes, it's medicine, but maybe I'm way off...

Prop 19 may be good for something though. Letting the pieces fall where they may, taking down those whose gonna be taken down. Tightening the whole thing up. Hopefully it leave more self-growers and smokers in peace. Like many says, there will properly not come a better solution in good deal of time.

Small steps?



Edit: Hm , should've read the 3rd page seems like it will be a positive thing. We can't have it all at once, as said above^^ baby steps...

 

[echo_chamber]

Quiet Riot: All valid points, but none of the things you mention can be worked out UNTIL marijuana is legalized in some form. Currently it is illegal, making it impossible to submit new regulations regarding it.. The horse goes in front of the buggy, not behind it

 

[Quiet_Riot]

echo, yeah, i think I can see that now. You made some good points on this 3rd page. I had it backwards as you kinda state It really seems like the only solution. It may be very important to keep a positive mindset about this bill. As in other aspects of life. So, if this is passed, it's legal in Cali. Legal to blaze a doobie at the beach or whereever without getting arrested or fined... Legal to grow your own... Sounds like a great start to me!

 

[echo_chamber]

Absolutely! Alot of people are talking about this bill like the legalization movement (going strong since the 1960's) is going to stop trying after this bill. This bill is just one step FORWARD in a long process of full legalization. We all deserve the right to chill and blaze at the beach or in our homes and shouldnt have to be dying of AIDS or Cancer for that right

echo, yeah, i think I can see that now. You made some good points on this 3rd page. I had it backwards as you kinda state It really seems like the only solution. It may be very important to keep a positive mindset about this bill. As in other aspects of life. So, if this is passed, it's legal in Cali. Legal to blaze a doobie at the beach or whereever without getting arrested or fined... Legal to grow your own... Sounds like a great start to me!

 

[215forLife]

THERE WILL BE NO PUBLIC SMOKING OF WEED ON BEACHES IF PROP 19 PASSES
READ THE FUCKING THING FIRST

(b) “Personal consumption” shall include but is not limited to possession and consumption, in any form, of cannabis in a residence or other non-public place, and shall include licensed premises open to the public authorized to permit on-premises consumption of cannabis by a local government pursuant to section 11301.

(c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:

(i) possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;

(ii) consumption in public or in a public place;

Which is Ironic because under SB420 here are the limits on where we can and can't smoke

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/sen/sb_0401-0450/sb_420_bill_20031012_chaptered.html[/url]]
11362.79. Nothing in this article shall authorize a qualified
patient or person with an identification card to engage in the
smoking of medical marijuana under any of the following
circumstances:
(a) In any place where smoking is prohibited by law.
(b) In or within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, recreation
center, or youth center, unless the medical use occurs within a
residence.
(c) On a schoolbus.
(d) While in a motor vehicle that is being operated.
(e) While operating a boat.
11362.795. (a) (1) Any criminal defendant who is eligible to use
marijuana pursuant to Section 11362.5 may request that the court
confirm that he or she is allowed to use medical marijuana while he
or she is on probation or released on bail.

 

[215forLife]

Basically as long as we aren't driving, boating, or involved with a school we can smoke where ever Cigarette Smoking is allowed...

Prop 19 CHANGES THAT!

 

[echo_chamber]

THERE WILL BE NO PUBLIC SMOKING OF WEED ON BEACHES IF PROP 19 PASSES
READ THE FUCKING THING FIRST

Maybe you can point to the section in the bill that says you cant smoke on a beach. I do see the section where it says you cant smoke where "cigarettes" are banned, which makes perfect sense.. that would include "public beaches"

Its called common sense, you cant drink at a public beach either..

If you're in CAlifornia and you are chillin on "public" beaches, you've not been around long enough. Plenty of private beachfront where you can smoke, even while its illegal

Which is Ironic because under SB420 here are the limits on where we can and can't smoke

If you can smoke more than an ounce by yourself in 1 sitting, i'm impressed. I've never needed to carry more than an ounce on me for personal use... If you're selling, well i can understand where that can be a pain, but this bill is not about dealers/growers...

 

[TruthOrLie]

Okay and I break rules in both Props so they both should be trashed, right 215?

 

[215forLife]

You are correct. But what the "yes on 19" people are saying is this is not about money/growers/dealers, this is about Marijuana itself. Growers and dealers product is still ILLEGAL, and we cant move forward on setting up guidelines for money/capitalism related issues until the basic principle of "what the dealers and growers are selling" is legal.

YOU ARE WRONG...

IT IS CURRENTLY LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA

11362.775. Qualified patients, persons with valid identification
cards, and the designated primary caregivers of qualified patients
and persons with identification cards, who associate within the State
of California in order collectively or cooperatively to cultivate
marijuana for medical purposes, shall not solely on the basis of that
fact be subject to state criminal sanctions under Section 11357,
11358, 11359, 11360, 11366, 11366.5, or 11570.

Do I need to start quoting case law?

Because People V Urizceanu clearly states that medical sales are legal and that collectives and cooperatives are legal.

 

[Quiet_Riot]

Prop 19 CHANGES THAT!

It seems that way with those quotes you made... Getting confused now.. I'm slow like that..

 

[215forLife]

If you're going to quote being 420 compliant you might want to read the fucking thing first buddy...

I've been around in California far longer than you. Atleast 5 generations of my family are from California. I was born and raised here. I worked in a dispensary and on a legal farm when Clinton was president.

Really Echo chamber you proved you have no ability to comprehend simple english...

Maybe you can point to the section in the bill that says you cant smoke on a beach. I do see the section where it says you cant smoke where "cigarettes" are banned, which makes perfect sense.. that would include "public beaches"

You obviously missed my previous post which stated

Originally Posted by prop 19
(b) “Personal consumption” shall include but is not limited to possession and consumption, in any form, of cannabis in a residence or other non-public place, and shall include licensed premises open to the public authorized to permit on-premises consumption of cannabis by a local government pursuant to section 11301.

(c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:

(i) possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;

(ii) consumption in public or in a public place;

MOST BEACHES IN CALIFORNIA ARE PUBLIC. 99% of people don't have access to private beaches hence why they are called private.

 

[Quiet_Riot]

Well, at least it'll be legal to get high/medicate at home, or in a private space of some sort. I can dig that. And hell, if I wanna gethigh in a dark alley behind Target, I'll fuggin do it. How cool am I..

 

[echo_chamber]

215, I read the bill at least once every 2 weeks to make sure i understand what i am voting yes on. You've had multiple chances to CONVINCE PEOPLE TO VOTE NO, by providing evidence for your agument...You are clearly not here to "debate" or "convince" people to vote no, you are clearly a person that is going to be effected by a "yes" vote and you are simply chastising people, calling them dumbfucks and stupid, when you've had a chance with each response to prove your point, but instead you quote sections of the bill that PROVE YOU WRONG... i really dont get it.. The reality is you can smoke anywhere cigarettes can be smoked (legally). Do you get arrested for smoking cigarette on the beach?

I'm willing to listen to you mention ONE reason why we should keep Marijuana illegal, continuing drug arrests on regular citizens... If you can come up with ONE good reason, we're listening.. But its gotta be worth sending people to jail for, keep that in mind, as that is what this bill is fighting for, not growers/dealers..

If you're going to quote being 420 compliant you might want to read the fucking thing first buddy...

I've been around in California far longer than you. Atleast 5 generations of my family are from California. I was born and raised here. I worked in a dispensary and on a legal farm when Clinton was president.

Really Echo chamber you should shut the fuck up because you proved you have no ability to comprehend simple english...



You obviously missed my previous post which stated


MOST BEACHES IN CALIFORNIA ARE PUBLIC. 99% of people don't have access to private beaches hence why they are called private you dumb fuck.

 

[echo_chamber]

Yep, we dont drink in public, at beaches, in front of a school, at a police station. There is a time and a place for "getting high". People like 215 want to make it out like people want to smoke & drive children to school.. LOL...

Well, at least it'll be legal to get high/medicate at home, or in a private space of some sort. I can dig that. And hell, if I wanna gethigh in a dark alley behind Target, I'll fuggin do it. How cool am I..

 

[dagnabit]

Come out from behind the tree!

my first thought was "how the fuck is this kid still posting after that humiliation" but i guess some folks have absolutely zero shame LOL

every weak ass thought this turd has expressed has been flushed in a myriad of threads already but hey you got to give him points for tenacity!

he even has a few "new members" with his back

 

[echo_chamber]

Haha, now i know you are just trolling 215.. Did you honestly ljust say Marijuana is already legal in California? Then what is the point of Prop 19? Currently in California Marijuana is illegal. Medical patients can be perscribed Marijuana, just like Morphine or Cocaine... But doesnt make those substances "legal" wow.....


You do realize we are talking about Prop 19, not Prop 215 for medical use right? Prop 19 is about NON MEDICAL citizens to be allowed to smoke/grow/possess marijuana legally...

YOU ARE WRONG...

IT IS CURRENTLY LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA



Do I need to start quoting case law?

Because People V Urizceanu clearly states that medical sales are legal and that collectives and cooperatives are legal.

 

[215forLife]

Haha, now i know you are just trolling 215.. Did you honestly ljust say Marijuana is already legal in California? Then what is the point of Prop 19? Currently in California Marijuana is illegal. Medical patients can be perscribed Marijuana, just like Morphine or Cocaine... But doesnt make those substances "legal" wow.....


You do realize we are talking about Prop 19, not Prop 215 for medical use right? Prop 19 is about NON MEDICAL citizens to be allowed to smoke/grow/possess marijuana legally...

ALL USE IS MEDICAL... ANYBODY CAN GET A DOCTORS REC IN CALIFORNIA AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIE...

you are calling me the troll? This thread is about WHY I am voting NO on prop 19... It's not called "hey lets debate prop 19 with retards that can't read"...

 

[guest456mpy]

215forLife

It's only legal for medicinal use. What about someone who just feels like smoking. Will you deny him the right, just because you have a card or are caregiver? An "I'm all right, Jack keep your hands off of my stack" sort of thing?"

Again, we must move on a pass laws closer to re-legalization. Then amend those laws so that they are fairer. You can't amend a law that isn't on the books. No perfect law is gonna come later if we wait. It's time to do what's right for all, not just some.

 

[215forLife]

215, I read the bill at least once every 2 weeks to make sure i understand what i am voting yes on.

Lol you prove once again you lack reading comprehension skills. Because I said 420 speaking about SB420.Which clearly you don't read every two weeks because it was something voted on back in 2004 by the State Legislature.... Being sb420 compliant would make you legal correct? Thats what I thought...

I'm willing to listen to you mention ONE reason why we should keep Marijuana illegal, continuing drug arrests on regular citizens...

I never said we should keep "marijuana illegal"... I said we should vote no on 19. Did you know the demographic that has citations issued to it for marijuana in California happens to be under 21... Do you realize that anyone who is subject to arrest for selling or growing currently in California would STILL be subject to the same arrest.

 

[echo_chamber]

So in one statement you just attempted to completely illegitimize my, and thousands of others medical use of Cannabis... Its now clear to me you have not even taken the time to read the bill that is quoted in your very own username.

You must have an ailment that keeps you from doing daily activities in your life without comfort to get medical marijuana. You cannot just say: Hi i want a card, here's $100...

To be honest, i cant beleive i just spent the past hour debating with a troll...

Well, when you are ready to debate, and provide proof for your argument, we are all waiting here. I read back to the beginning of this thread, and i can see why you are so upset, but the tenacity of continuing your ignorance even when you know you are wrong ten times over is just comical. I'm subscribed if only for the entertainment of watching you flap around....

Take care man, i hope you move on to better things soon.

ALL USE IS MEDICAL... ANYBODY CAN GET A DOCTORS REC IN CALIFORNIA AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIE...

you are calling me the troll? This thread is about WHY I am voting NO on prop 19... It's not called "hey lets debate prop 19 with retards that can't read"...