GG4 was accidentally created from hermie-ing plant, and is widely known to hermie from light. With me it was the red lights on power strips were enough.
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Why do i always get Hermies?
- Thread starter Irael
- Start date
GG4 was accidentally created from hermie-ing plant, and is widely known to hermie from light. With me it was the red lights on power strips were enough.
Damn thats hard..they hermied on you only because of the red power strip?
I also found that source of light near my box and will also tape it and lee if it helps for the next grow.
Hmm it seems that i really need to tape that red power light strips off
OK that´s some good info Budley! So you mean if the mother plant does not hermie in it´s first flower (which is impossible to tell from my cloneshop, because in my country only "non flowering plants" are legal), the clones will not hermie too because of light leaks?
I found something yesterday when i checked for the leaks:
First that red Power Strip what some people here are talking about to cause light leaks. And second it seems like the zippers from my tent are not lightproof anymore.
I rotated the box around, turned the lights off und looked at every corner.
As you can see in the pictures above it is not much light, but i believe if light come out from the box when its dark then light could also come into the box when it´s dark inside, even tough the room where the box stands in is also pretty dark.
I do not know if that is the problem, but that´s something i found and many people were talking about light leaks as a main problem here, so i think i will buy a new box for the next run which is lightrpoof again (Hopefully^^)
Greetz
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ganjygav
Do you have the red light inside the tent? Also if the room is dark that the tent is in then there won't be enough light getting through them zips to supposedly create herm issues.
CannasaurusR
Member
IMO all the reasons for nanners or full blown hermies (from genetics to peanut butter sandwiches) equate to stress. Compare metaphorically to humans: just one change in your environment (which other humans may see as a non issue) can affect your attitude, your happiness and productivity. I have changed the furniture in my bedroom many times. I have varying degrees of junk and clothes lying around, the light level in the dark period is constantly changing, the temps fluctuate if we forget to turn the heat down at night, an none of this bothered me, or affected my day adversely. BUT I changed the bedframe to one with wheels and I keep banging my baby toe when I wake up. The sore toe affected the way I walked at work and I was super bitchy all day. Just that stupid wheel lock wingnut thing, made my whole day hermi and I went bananas. Had to remove the wheels on the frame and I'm back to true male. Sometimes one change in your (or a plants) environment, which could be microscopic, can affect your behaviour to the highest level. I feel plants are no different. If your clones perform well without hermis do not change a thing, or your little plants may get seperation anxiety in succesive generations. Microanalyzing is wasteful, try some different genetics IMO.
MrBungle
Well-known member
after doing what I thought was a decent job of light leak-proofing last night.. I decided to take my own advice ( for once) and sit in me dark room with my eyes closed for an extended period of time.... I found some pretty decent sized light leaks... I won't say it was the only stress on those plants during this grow... but it was the most major of all
Hey Ganjygav! No it was not directly in the Box, but it was placed right in front of the ventilation slots of the box..here a pic!
So some people here say the power strips can really cause hermies. In fact that would mean that the red light can shine trough the ventilation slots when it´s completely dark outside.
I thought the same thing as you about the light leaks by the zipper..and the room is really dark where the box is standing, so idk if light can come trough, but it is definitely one more thing to care about for the next grow!
Greetz
G
ganjygav
Hi dude well I hope you get to the bottom of your causes whatever it turns out to be.
Good luck
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
My theory:
The thing about the power strip is that it is a constant light source all throughout the night cycle, every day.
I doubt most genetics are so light sensitive that they cause herms if you open the door during the night cycle by accident once or twice during flower.
I know comparing it to outdoor is an apples to oranges kind of deal often but my reasoning is that outdoor plants don't full on hermy every time a car drives by them with the headlights on during the night.
But if they get some residual light during the night from a street lamp or something, they will herm outdoor as well (afaik, never grew outdoor).
So I believe the constant light during the night-cycle is more of a factor than the intensity of the light, which is why every pin-needle light leak can be an issue and why I believe the power strip is what did me in last time. And potentially you too?
The thing about the power strip is that it is a constant light source all throughout the night cycle, every day.
I doubt most genetics are so light sensitive that they cause herms if you open the door during the night cycle by accident once or twice during flower.
I know comparing it to outdoor is an apples to oranges kind of deal often but my reasoning is that outdoor plants don't full on hermy every time a car drives by them with the headlights on during the night.
But if they get some residual light during the night from a street lamp or something, they will herm outdoor as well (afaik, never grew outdoor).
So I believe the constant light during the night-cycle is more of a factor than the intensity of the light, which is why every pin-needle light leak can be an issue and why I believe the power strip is what did me in last time. And potentially you too?
Kill them all and start over from good seed. It's all you can do with hermaphrodites. And I mean good seed, male on female breeding by someone who knows what they're doing. Bag seed or unlabeled 'I don't know what male' seed is out. Breeder needs to be able to tell you it was purposely pollinated by a stud male. Otherwise they have no idea where the pollen came from.
I don't like clones from people, far too many times I've heard 'this is GG4' and it blows out nanners after four weeks. So many popular lines originated from bag seed, chemdog, GSC, then people make seeds and the progeny reverts to the hermie that started the line.
My suspicion is that far more lines contain hermaphrodite genes then people think. I've ran plants outdoors, no problems. Cloned them, brought them indoors and they go herm. On the outdoor run they may have produced an unnoticed male flower or two. But when their light cycle changed they were stressed and they threw out many more flowers.
This is also why light leaks and power outages can cause big problems. If your strain is a 'latent hermaphrodite'. Under normal conditions it might produce a few nanners at 8 or 9 weeks but otherwise it's cool. As soon as it gets light stressed, nute stressed or whatever it goes full on hermaphrodite.
I'm sure your strain is one of these. The first couple times you run it she's fine. But the more times you run it the stresses build and it produces male flowers earlier and earlier.
I don't like clones from people, far too many times I've heard 'this is GG4' and it blows out nanners after four weeks. So many popular lines originated from bag seed, chemdog, GSC, then people make seeds and the progeny reverts to the hermie that started the line.
My suspicion is that far more lines contain hermaphrodite genes then people think. I've ran plants outdoors, no problems. Cloned them, brought them indoors and they go herm. On the outdoor run they may have produced an unnoticed male flower or two. But when their light cycle changed they were stressed and they threw out many more flowers.
This is also why light leaks and power outages can cause big problems. If your strain is a 'latent hermaphrodite'. Under normal conditions it might produce a few nanners at 8 or 9 weeks but otherwise it's cool. As soon as it gets light stressed, nute stressed or whatever it goes full on hermaphrodite.
I'm sure your strain is one of these. The first couple times you run it she's fine. But the more times you run it the stresses build and it produces male flowers earlier and earlier.
that´s a really good comparison CannasaurusR
I am slowly starting to believe the hermies in my growtent maybe really are turning hermie because of stress.
The stress they had in this grow was to dry air when i got them.. they started to look good again as soon as they rooted.
Then maybe too much fetilizer at the beginning with the fresh mixed soil with biotabs in it (but 3 friends of mine grow with exactly the same soil and fertilizer without hermies^^)
And maybe too much ventilation (3 big fans)? Is that possible?
Also maybe the plants were a fewtimes a little bit to close to the light (but nothing serious, no burnt tips or something)
But everything else was perfectly fine, perfect temperatures, no nutrient deficiency, no pests, no over or underwatering, i even controlled the Ph on Organic Soil
and from what i read here in this thread so far good genetics do not get hermie because of a little bit of stress, the question is now how much stress is enough to let a plant go hermie?You are right and they were standing directly in front of the ventilation slots..maybe they were really a part of the problem. I have taped off the power strip now, so there is one less potential problem for the next grow.
I am definitely reading more and more hermie threads in the last days and think i will change some things for the next run, hopefully the next crop will go well again.
Greetz
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
I think I mentioned it before in this thread but I am coming to the realization that with most strains, you run into herm issues if you don't lollypop them and remove lower growth.
When those tiny branches at the bottom of the plant start to try and flower and don't have enough light, they throw herms.
My theory is that most breeders and growers have adopted a SCROG type of growing method because it offers the highest yields and the plants have been grown and bred in this style for so long that they now hermy if they are not lollypopped.
Just a theory though, trying to confirm it at the moment.
Either way, what the reverend said is true:
One likely wouldn't believe how many genetics on the market are hermy tainted/infested... Especially in central Europe, skilled growers are almost non-existant.
Chances are the clones you bought, even if from a reputable shop, come from bad/tainted seeds (probably Sensi or sth) to begin with, were then poorly selected and grown under poor conditions and then sold to you. Just a bad starting point no matter how you cut it.
I mean they have been selling clones in shops in Austria for decades and I would bet on these "elite clones" to be hermy prone crap. These folks are just generally poor growers and when you buy clones from them, you put your faith in their skills which is ... ill-advised.
When those tiny branches at the bottom of the plant start to try and flower and don't have enough light, they throw herms.
My theory is that most breeders and growers have adopted a SCROG type of growing method because it offers the highest yields and the plants have been grown and bred in this style for so long that they now hermy if they are not lollypopped.
Just a theory though, trying to confirm it at the moment.
Either way, what the reverend said is true:
One likely wouldn't believe how many genetics on the market are hermy tainted/infested... Especially in central Europe, skilled growers are almost non-existant.
Chances are the clones you bought, even if from a reputable shop, come from bad/tainted seeds (probably Sensi or sth) to begin with, were then poorly selected and grown under poor conditions and then sold to you. Just a bad starting point no matter how you cut it.
I mean they have been selling clones in shops in Austria for decades and I would bet on these "elite clones" to be hermy prone crap. These folks are just generally poor growers and when you buy clones from them, you put your faith in their skills which is ... ill-advised.
Yes you mentioned this before, but somehow i have over read it
But that is also a really interesting guess, i personally do not remove any leaves from the plant as long as they are healthy. I only remove the lower branches of the plant.
But this time the nanners started to appear on the top buds, not on the lower branches so i dont know if that was also a factor on my plants.
But still it is an very interesting guess, i will also try to cut a few more lower branches off and maybe run fewer plants next time so the light can come better trough to the lower parts
I cannot say much to the growers from the Cloneshops in our country, but i know they have got good genetics, and also bad genetics. I think it is a bit of luck which strain you take from which shop
I personally trust the classic old strains (from seed, directly from the breeder of course) to be more stable than most of this new california genetics with crazy names and crazy thc content, not the trusted ones but there are coming soo much new strains every month that i am sure that there are also some "hermie-infested" genetics on the market.
For the next run i bought me some nebula and wappa seeds from Paradise, lets see how they do
Greetz
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
I started out not defoliating as well, like you said.
Wanted to get to know the plants as they would grow naturally etc. etc.
But I have since gone away from that.
Also, the high plant numbers is a factor as well. I am just realizing through another thread and the discussion there that I would probably massively increase yields if I ran fewer plants in larger containers. Something most growers know and I knew too, just lost track of it.
I believe furthermore it's not only yields that would be positively affected by running fewer plants, I think overall health and hermie issues could also be positively influenced by that.
Regarding your next set of genetics:
Correct me if I am wrong but Paradise Seeds is all feminized these days, no? Would have to be quite old stock if it isn't femmed.
And if you are growing from feminized seeds, then there you have it, no?
Not saying all femmed seeds HAVE TO hermy but they are definitely much more succeptible to throwing herms due to stress than regular seed stock.
Maybe run a round of regular seedstock to compare?
Wanted to get to know the plants as they would grow naturally etc. etc.
But I have since gone away from that.
Also, the high plant numbers is a factor as well. I am just realizing through another thread and the discussion there that I would probably massively increase yields if I ran fewer plants in larger containers. Something most growers know and I knew too, just lost track of it.
I believe furthermore it's not only yields that would be positively affected by running fewer plants, I think overall health and hermie issues could also be positively influenced by that.
Regarding your next set of genetics:
Correct me if I am wrong but Paradise Seeds is all feminized these days, no? Would have to be quite old stock if it isn't femmed.
And if you are growing from feminized seeds, then there you have it, no?
Not saying all femmed seeds HAVE TO hermy but they are definitely much more succeptible to throwing herms due to stress than regular seed stock.
Maybe run a round of regular seedstock to compare?
Ashin_Kusher
Member
How long on average are you vegging your plants for before you induce the flowering phase?
A plants sexual maturity plays a big role. If a plant isn't sexual mature before it is forced to flower can be very stressful.
I've grown pretty much nothing but fem seeds, S1s mostly and I have only had two instances of plants producing stamen(male parts) and one of those instances weren't even fem seeds.
I would recommend vegging your plants at least until pre-flowers are present.
A plants sexual maturity plays a big role. If a plant isn't sexual mature before it is forced to flower can be very stressful.
I've grown pretty much nothing but fem seeds, S1s mostly and I have only had two instances of plants producing stamen(male parts) and one of those instances weren't even fem seeds.
I would recommend vegging your plants at least until pre-flowers are present.
Because your starting seed is bunk boogie. Thats why. And if you bought the seeds from the bazillion of hack shysters that either A. think they know how to breed or B. try to make you think they can breed ....the result is the same. Your money for subpar plants that arent worth a bucket of horse piss. Sorry. But this is the truth. Buyer beware. The vast majority of seed sellers out there arent worth a damn. It's a hype train to pollenville and the tickets are expensive. Listen and listen well. You dont want plants that intersex if you sneeze wrong in the driveway. Thats bad plants period. Hermaphroditism should of been bred out to a very minimum (yes - real breeding this is number one) or sifted through in a test room or seperate area. You all can come up with whacky theories on what "stress" you might of caused and rack your brains with paranoid shit but bottom line is...its the genetics your working with. Its stressful as it is for the strongest of non hermie plants in most artificial environments. Depsite the bullshit forum lies out there...its shit seed plants with a whole lotta hype..big price tag with no work done to breed out the bad traits. Either that or just schwag bag seed. Bottom line..end of story. And I know what Iam talking about. Ive been growing dope going on 27 years straight.Hey guys, this is my third crop in a row which hermied on me. On the first on there were only a few Nanners in the End-Stage of flowering, nothing serious.
But last time they hermied straight after about 3 weeks into flower, first some dying hairs appeared on some buds, which is definitely not normal in week 3.
Soon after that they stopped growing nice Buds and started to delevop more and more nanners and brown hairs.
I grew it to the end but it was not really potent and nice smoke.
So this time it happenend again, at exact the same stage of the flowering cycle the pistils start to die off like this:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=72019&pictureid=1816751&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=72019&pictureid=1816750&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
Soon after that the first Nanner was found:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=72019&pictureid=1816752&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
The pictures are a week ago, look completely the same today only with more bananas .. there is no budding anymore.
I'd like to cut it all off right now and on it .... I'm really completely pissed off.
What i did before that grow to avoid hermied Plants in the future:
-Cleaned and desinfected the Growbox 2 times
-Cleaned and desinfected all that was in there (reflector, fans, cables, Pots)
-Bought a new active carbon filter because i thought maybe there were some Pollen stuck in the old one...
-i even washed the watering can and all the nutrient bottles
-The room in where the box stands was washed and dried out
-Every time before I enter the box have put on hairnet, put off everything exepct my underpants and washed my hands to the elbow so that I do not get anything in there.
-bought a new Timer for the lightnings and blocked the window completely..its dark in the room!
As you can see it did not help at all...i am really mad at this point.
What i cannot understand is that people who want to pollinate their Girls apply lots of Pollen with a Brush directly on the sitgmas and i know people who do not clean their box at all,
smoke in it and let their cats in it and they have never got hermies at all
I have no idea from where the pollen comes or do you think they just self pollinate themselves? But then also why do they do that?
They dont have much stress or anything..temperature is great, they are feeded well, dont get over or underwatered, lights are not too close..this is not my first grow.
Funny is that this only happens since a few grows..the 5 or 6 before in the same box with the same setup never hermied.
Maybe you have some ideas what could cause this on my last indoor gows?
Greetz
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ganjygav
The truth
slapmehard
Member
^ I agree my pgsc I tried for 8 years to get it to herm or even push out a banana never not once and I try every year.
bagseed Is like just when is it going to put up some nanners lol
really thou as long you don't get a real herm putting out both flowers at the same time to start its not that big a deal with late nanners.
well for the true home grower not some wanna be pro in his basement
bagseed Is like just when is it going to put up some nanners lol
really thou as long you don't get a real herm putting out both flowers at the same time to start its not that big a deal with late nanners.
well for the true home grower not some wanna be pro in his basement
slapmehard
Member
just want to add that just because it puts out nanners it don't make it bad weed or a shit plant
some of my fav weed is prone to stress nanners but it smells and taste's great easy to grow mid height pm does not like it bugs don't stay on it and its done in 7 weeks with very good yield
some of my fav weed is prone to stress nanners but it smells and taste's great easy to grow mid height pm does not like it bugs don't stay on it and its done in 7 weeks with very good yield
I dont consider a yellow banana in late flower a herm or intersex. I got banging gear Ive kept forever and some pop a banana here and there very late. Thats nothing. My finished patient quality flowers are still seedless sensimilla. And yeah..Ive had some straight up STRONG gals that Ive treated like shit..just bad plant care and husbandry...usually out of sheer laziness or I wanted to see if I could make it intersex and nothing happened. Below her standard of bud quality and production is what I got but not a herm in sight. When breeders start blaming the reports on light leaks and other supposed grower error (cmon...we arent stupid..its common sense) this applies to a very minority of goofy grower practices. We want good quality buds just as much as they want to sell us the seed. We know what light leaks are. We know what stress is. Our other gear doesnt herm out. So its obvious where the herm problem lies. Iam telling you all the truth...its from hack breeders not doing the work it takes. The vast majority arent breeding anything to a high quality standard. It takes YEARS and huge numbers and selection for just one true breeding cultivar. They are just smashing pollen from a "stud male" (puhhlleease) to any and every hot clone and calling it some goofy name. Charge us big bucks and we buy this lottery ticket and bitch when we get a bunch of seeded bud or waste our time and electric bill on. See..its not just the 100 - 200 dollar packs of herm pollen shit plants we are paying for. Its our time (that spot in the garden could of produced alot quality bud) and electric bill/water bill/medium/nutrient/bulb time/consumables money as well. Its alot of time, energy, work, & money for nothing in the end. Thats why I have a tester room anymore. Everything I get from the outside world gets ran in there at least once sometimes more. For bugs diseases and especially HERMANS!!! I run a tight ship. Iam a caregiver and run perpetual systems. Something always coming and going. A bad plant would ruin years of work and my keeper stable. My patients would abandon me like the plague. And I still basically just run good cuts from a small group of trusted grower buddies. Very rarely do I go out and buy a hype ticket on the pollen train. The Herman Line Express!!! All aboard? Not this guy. Not anymore. Been over the seed chasing game for years now.
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CaptainDankness
Well-known member
So many possibilities from low light to the genetics. Temperature too much or too little nutrients, just so many things can stress plants happens to the best of us. Some plants just can't handle the same things as others.
Many people just blame the breeder but a lot of times that's not really the problem of course the term breeder gets thrown around too much. Just watched the guy from Phylos saying about the same thing I thought years ago only much worse than I thought. He said even Northern Lights you plant 100 seeds you get 100 different plants and that seeds are like snowflakes because each one is unique.
Makes sense, I got an amazing plant from Mr. Nice Shit didn't keep a cut like a dumbass and about 100 seeds later from the breeder nothing has been as good. Still all pretty good just not that elite one I didn't get a cut of.
Got to love it when some breeders give specific descriptions you just know you won't get what they promise in a single pack of seeds then of course they want far too much money. But some of them do dial in traits fairly well just still require selection much more than 10 seeds of course you usually find a nice plant in 10 seeds unless you are growing Blue Dog Shit.
Many people just blame the breeder but a lot of times that's not really the problem of course the term breeder gets thrown around too much. Just watched the guy from Phylos saying about the same thing I thought years ago only much worse than I thought. He said even Northern Lights you plant 100 seeds you get 100 different plants and that seeds are like snowflakes because each one is unique.
Makes sense, I got an amazing plant from Mr. Nice Shit didn't keep a cut like a dumbass and about 100 seeds later from the breeder nothing has been as good. Still all pretty good just not that elite one I didn't get a cut of.
Got to love it when some breeders give specific descriptions you just know you won't get what they promise in a single pack of seeds then of course they want far too much money. But some of them do dial in traits fairly well just still require selection much more than 10 seeds of course you usually find a nice plant in 10 seeds unless you are growing Blue Dog Shit.
