Why do i always get Hermies?

[Budley Doright]

I think some info on flower types is in order...

THere are in fact 2 main types of male flowers found on female plants....

They are often referred to as nanners(banana) and balls......

I treat plants with them differently.... Balls are full on male flowers.... they open just like normal male flowers.... and consequently can cause many seeds.... they normally occur at the nodes of the plant....typically they form earlier than the other type....

The other type are often called nanners.... they are found as part of the female flower....in effect the flower contains both male and female parts....

I have these now and then.... and more often than not they produce no viable seeds...either in the plant they are on or other plants....

I suspect the reason is that they are part of a moist female flower and it cant dry up enough to drop pollen.....

I never keep plants with balls....but might keep one with a few nanners.....

I dont think I have ever seen a mostly female plant with both types of male parts....balls and nanners....

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I think some info on flower types is in order...

THere are in fact 2 main types of male flowers found on female plants....

They are often referred to as nanners(banana) and balls......

Common mistake, fostered by non-growers and inexperienced growers. They're the exact same flowers, zero genetic difference. Why the different shape? Well gee, one is squeezed between female flowers and takes on a banana shape.

Physics, not genetics.

 

[Budley Doright]

Im sorry my friend.... the banana type are called perfect flowers.....the ball type is called an imperfect flower.... so no they are not the exact same flowers....
basic biology...

Dont worry its a common mistake often made by non growers and inexperienced growers....

You know google might help you out.... look up perfect....imperfect flowers and discover their differences....

 

[Budley Doright]

Never mind....lots of folks arent good with google....

Most Cannabis plants are dioecious, meaning they have imperfect (male or female) flowers on separate plants. What we growers commonly refer to as a hermaphrodite, is actually called a monoecious plant- male flowers on a female plant- both sexes of imperfect flower on the same individual. A TRUE hermaphroditic flower is a single flower bearing both male and female organs; a perfect flower. This true hermaphrodite is considerably less common in Cannabis plants than monoecious individuals.

Based on this definition....I would never keep a monoecious plant....but I might keep a true hermaphrodite....

or.... I would never keep a plant with balls.....but I might keep a plant with a few nanners.....

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Im sorry my friend.... the banana type are called perfect flowers.....the ball type is called an imperfect flower.... so no they are not the exact same flowers....

Genetically, they produce the exact same pollen, looks don't change anything. This is the only thing which matters in the discussion. Google can be used to find even more detailed information, you just have to look deeper.

 

[Budley Doright]

NO they dont... a monoecious plant produces other monoecious plants...while a true hermaphrodite will generally produce only another hermaphroditic plant.

hemp for example is a monoecious plant with distinct male or females flowers while both can be on the same plant and usually are.....

This is exactly the reason that understanding the difference in balls and nanners is important

I thought this was pretty basic stuff that most people know....

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

and the beat goes on and on... (Strange how the STS flowers I created were balls, where not surrounded by female flowers, and nanners when squeezed among female flowers. Physics is lost on most people anyway, I blame it on youtube, tv and movies. lol)

 

[ganjygav]

I don't understand the big words but yes, I've never worried about "nannas" I just pick them off. I always thought it was just a last desperate attempt for a female to pollinate itself right towards the end of flower.
I Learn something new everyday.

When a plant grows "balls" at nodes at the same time it starts to form early buds in first few weeks of 12/12, that's when I get upset.

 

[Betterhaff]

Well I had a plant that threw nanners late in flower, was never a big problem because I grew her isolated outdoors and they came so late they never could have produced seeds even if the pollen was viable.

She was a bag seed one off but was almost like trip weed. I crossed her to variety of proven males trying to preserve some of her genetics but all of her offspring were intersex to varying degrees, some really severe. I gave up trying to breed her. (I still wish I would have kept her though).

 

[St. Phatty]

This is like the Botany version of 9 1/2 weeks !

 

[Budley Doright]

When a plant grows "balls" at nodes at the same time it starts to form early buds in first few weeks of 12/12, that's when I get upset.

and you should....balls types can release much more pollen because they are in fact just like male flowers.... they open....dry and can release into the air a surprising amount of pollen....

As soon as I see this type flower and long before they open.... they are dead....

 

[Fiddynut]

Greetings friends.

Lots of great discussion here.
I often get a few 'balls' on the lower nodes of the plants I grow. In fact I think I have on about every grow I've done. At first I didn't know what to look for and my first couple of crops had some seeded plants in them. I thought it was just that I was a new grower and was doing some thing wrong. Now I know what to look for and if I pick them off every couple days I've not had any seeds. I'm still not sure why I keep getting them but if dealt wit properly they don't seem to cause issues. Last few grows were gorilla bubble by Tony green and a couple of bodhi strains so I don't think I'm working with bad genetics.

Since my temps, humidity and air exchange is good I can only guess it's one of a couple things.
1. Light leaks. Some of the discussion in this thread and others I've read make me doubt this. I've been in my tent lights off and if there are any leaks they are very minor. I've also come across threads which discuss trying to make plants herm with light leaks and it dosent seem that easy unless you really have a lot of light or mess with the cycle.
2. Rootbound. This seems most likely but some of the info here seems to indicate that being rootbound is not going to cause herms. Maybe il grow a couple clones of a strain that has thrown some balls for me in say a 3 and a 5 gallon pot and see if I get more balls on the smaller potted one.
3. Improper nutrition of plants. Not sure if this can cause herms but as a new grower I am guilty of over feeding some of my plants and under feeding others.
4. A combination of the above factors, causing general stress to the plants. Maybe it's just as simple as some genetics being predisposed to hermies if stressed. This seems to make the most sense to me but I'm no expert.

Another interisting thing I read here in a thread was that it's very stressful for plants to have a bunch of light at the tops of the plants but little near the bottom. I tend to pack my tent full and as my plants streach and get bushy not a lot of light gets through the canopy and down to the lower nodes. Maybe in this case if I could bring myself to lollypop my plants more aggressively I could avoid some of the issues. I must keep trying new growing technique and new genetics and hopefully some day I won't have to pick off the balls that I almost always seem to get around week 3 or 4 of flower.

 

[KONY]

The people that say it can't be light leaks because outside the plants have light leaks are missing the point. More times than not plants outside have proper root space. This allows them to deal with stresses much better.

The minute the plants roots start circling the container or hit the sides even, the plant is going to experience stress more severely than a plant that hasn't had this happen.

The other thing many people are missing is that most plants nowadays are intersex and not male or female. True hermaphrodites are fairly rare in the cannabis world. Intersex plants are a dime a dozen though.

 

[Ringodoggie]

The minute the plants roots start circling the container or hit the sides even, the plant is going to experience stress more severely than a plant that hasn't had this happen.

It was always my understanding that establishing a healthy rootball was important. The proper way to establish a robust rootball is by starting in smaller containers and moving up to larger ones.

The reason for that is so that as the roots grow, they hit a dead end in the small pot and branch out. Same concept as topping the veg part of the plant.

I spend a lot of effort doing it just that way. And have for almost 50 years. Are you telling me that all this time, I am simply stressing the plant???

 

[ganjygav]

The people that say it can't be light leaks because outside the plants have light leaks are missing the point. More times than not plants outside have proper root space. This allows them to deal with stresses much better.

The minute the plants roots start circling the container or hit the sides even, the plant is going to experience stress more severely than a plant that hasn't had this happen.

The other thing many people are missing is that most plants nowadays are intersex and not male or female. True hermaphrodites are fairly rare in the cannabis world. Intersex plants are a dime a dozen though.

What about outdoor plants grown all season in 10litre pots that don't herm. Like every year I put a plant or 2 outside.

I feel like this thread is just gonna go in circles.

 

[ganjygav]

It was always my understanding that establishing a healthy rootball was important. The proper way to establish a robust rootball is by starting in smaller containers and moving up to larger ones.

The reason for that is so that as the roots grow, they hit a dead end in the small pot and branch out. Same concept as topping the veg part of the plant.

I spend a lot of effort doing it just that way. And have for almost 50 years. Are you telling me that all this time, I am simply stressing the plant???

Ive seen plants grown in tiny 150 ml yogurt pots.
Jtrich grows plants from seed to completion in 2 litre pots over in the seedsman threads.

I figure root bound to be an old wife's tale the same as light leaks.
Some famous grower might have said these things at one time. when you get yourself a bit of experience with growing or see things with your own eyes surely it's not that hard to see that these old facts are just myths.
Show me some cold hard botanical science concerning cannabis plants, light leaks and root bound causing hermies.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I can see a pot with nothing in it but roots being stressed. My wife tortures her plants and she has some that have been in the same pot for decades without a transplant. They are all mutilated and fucked up but.... they seem to stay alive.

Now, the way my WIFE does root bound is definitely NOT a good thing. I have seen plants of hers so root bound that the roots are coming out of the TOP of the pot. LOL Fucking pot is 100% full of roots. not a drop of dirt left. Roots keep growing. I guess she thinks she's doing hydro. LOL

OK, THAT kind of root bound is bad. The way I grow a root ball (as I described above) is (IME) NOT a bad thing.

Just clearing up the difference between root bound and ROOT BOUND

As for the solo cup contests, any plant will stay healthy given the required amounts of limiting factors. I believe a plant gown in a smaller container is simply going to be smaller, not less healthy.

ROOT BOUND plants like my wife's are never healthy.

 

[Budley Doright]

What I have always found funny....is folks saying something stresses plants...

How do you know this???

And even more funny people actually believe them....

For the record.... I knew someone who grew in 20 oz cups.....

I asked them(the plants) more than once.... are you all stressed???

No answer.....

A far as I know... plants will generally keep the top of the plant in line with how many roots it has working....

 

[ganjygav]

I can see a pot with nothing in it but roots being stressed. My wife tortures her plants and she has some that have been in the same pot for decades without a transplant. They are all mutilated and fucked up but.... they seem to stay alive.

Now, the way my WIFE does root bound is definitely NOT a good thing. I have seen plants of hers so root bound that the roots are coming out of the TOP of the pot. LOL Fucking pot is 100% full of roots. not a drop of dirt left. Roots keep growing. I guess she thinks she's doing hydro. LOL

OK, THAT kind of root bound is bad. The way I grow a root ball (as I described above) is (IME) NOT a bad thing.

Just clearing up the difference between root bound and ROOT BOUND

As for the solo cup contests, any plant will stay healthy given the required amounts of limiting factors. I believe a plant gown in a smaller container is simply going to be smaller, not less healthy.

ROOT BOUND plants like my wife's are never healthy.

But in all your years have you seen a root bound plant turn hermi.?
I understand what you're saying I'm just trying to say that small pots is not reason for a plant to turn hermaphrodite.

Its gotta be genetic. Just like if any living creature was born with both male and female genetics.
When a human hermaphrodite is born do we say it was because the mother was stressed or had her sleep disturbed while pregnant?
No it's all in the genes.

I suspect most reasons offered to explain plants growing both sexs may originally come from some breeder making excuses for one of his strains going hermaphrodite.

Nobody can offer up the evidence it's just something they heard from another grower in some way.
I'm just saying what I see, what I've experienced and what makes sense

 

[Budley Doright]

I suspect most reasons offered to explain plants growing both sexs may originally come from some breeder making excuses for one of his strains going hermaphrodite.

NOw we are on to something.....