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Who Dat's on time: Hurry Up & Wait 2016 Summer Outdoor
- Thread starter who dat is
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Yeah that is the best way to do it. I think I'm going to back away from the Build A Soil blend as it is best suited for outdoor. It has several kinds of beans, vetch, and something else that want to get tall as shit and wrap around your plants and plant support.
20sackzack
Member
Damn you weren't kidding about that sfv being lanky! Love all the variety you got going on, very cool!
and here i thought a few oz's of crimson clover from rareseeds for a couple bucks was a good deal.
Can't stop won't stop.
and here i thought a few oz's of crimson clover from rareseeds for a couple bucks was a good deal.
He's always turning up some good deals
In the meme time
Nice. Can you topdress on top of cover crops? Maybe not animal manure, but maybe something like insect frass that is more powdery in texture would be able to be watered in through the cover crop?
I dump that shit right on no problem. I just water it in and let the dirt do the work. I try to keep things as easy as possible and right now is the first time I've almost exclusively been doing top dress dry organic nutes. I also have to say I'm a big fan of what it's doing not only for the outdoor girls but the indoor girls.
I'm wondering whether or not I should invest in "organic nutes". What I mean is I like having water soluble stuff to feed quickly (thankfully insect frass is) but I'm wondering if I need to buy actual organic nutrients.
I currently use Jack's (not organic) 20-20-20 and 10-30-20. Insect frass, while it has chitin which is HUGE, is only 2-2-2.
Is there any way to match Jack's with things like insect frass or bat guano? They all seem to have pretty low numbers, but I'm used to feeding more than is recommended even with Jack's, so maybe just pile that shit on and pour it in to the point of absurdity?
I think you're in for a bit of a learning curve but organics are way more forgiving than synthetic nutrients. The highest NPK numbers you're going to see with organics are 12 and just a tad higher to maybe 15 depending on what you're talking about. That being said, Blood Meal has a N of 12 and is very fast acting, it saved my ass earlier in the greenhouse when I hadn't fed yet and they were in recycled soil (oops). After that I've been using Happy Frog all purpose fertilizer, 5-5-5 and that has been working out well. I started the outdoor season off with top dressing the ends of my organic soil amendments and kind of went from there. I haven't seen any deficiencies or toxicities so I'm just chugging along trying to maintain sanity against the grasshoppers. If you are growing outdoors then in my humble opinion (take it with a grain of salt) then there is no reason to be using synthetic nutrients, especially if you're in soil. Get you beneficial mycorhizal fungi going along with all the good bacteria in your soil. It's awesome. They all get a nice little ecosystem going with synergistic relationships and all that jazz. Your plant will have increased disease resistance and you won't have to worry about flushing your growing medium and all that BS. Plus you won't have to worry about what your pH is, how many ppms your feeding, or your ec blah blah blah.
But what do I know, if you have a system that you like and works for you then rock that. I just found that I liked this method.
But what do I know, if you have a system that you like and works for you then rock that. I just found that I liked this method.
Beauty of the big hps in the sky. Them ladies sure love ya.
I think you're in for a bit of a learning curve but organics are way more forgiving than synthetic nutrients. The highest NPK numbers you're going to see with organics are 12 and just a tad higher to maybe 15 depending on what you're talking about. That being said, Blood Meal has a N of 12 and is very fast acting, it saved my ass earlier in the greenhouse when I hadn't fed yet and they were in recycled soil (oops). After that I've been using Happy Frog all purpose fertilizer, 5-5-5 and that has been working out well. I started the outdoor season off with top dressing the ends of my organic soil amendments and kind of went from there. I haven't seen any deficiencies or toxicities so I'm just chugging along trying to maintain sanity against the grasshoppers. If you are growing outdoors then in my humble opinion (take it with a grain of salt) then there is no reason to be using synthetic nutrients, especially if you're in soil. Get you beneficial mycorhizal fungi going along with all the good bacteria in your soil. It's awesome. They all get a nice little ecosystem going with synergistic relationships and all that jazz. Your plant will have increased disease resistance and you won't have to worry about flushing your growing medium and all that BS. Plus you won't have to worry about what your pH is, how many ppms your feeding, or your ec blah blah blah.
But what do I know, if you have a system that you like and works for you then rock that. I just found that I liked this method.
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That's another thing - I can't use blood/bone/fish meals or anything with them as an ingredient because out here that shit will get dug up 9 times over. Real shit, that's asking for trouble with bears and varmints in these parts.
I could fuck with Happy Frog. Why are all the organic nutes so relatively low-powered in terms of their NPK?
Avoiding deficiencies isn't so much my concern as feeding them as much as they can utilize without burning. During this time of year, I'll feed 2x or even 3x the recommended dose at 1.5-2x the recommended rate, and they can't get enough! Now KC genetics are abnormal in that they'll eat just about whatever you throw at them, no matter how much you give them. They're like fat ass pugs lol. And this is with 20-20-20, my simple math tells me that Happy Frog I'd have to feed 8-12x the recommended dose just to match what I've been feeding, but that seems to be absurd. (Then again, 2x the recommended amount at 2x the recommended rate seemed absurd too, but we're talking exponentially increasing the dosage here). It just seems like it can't be right.
Then again, my soil mix now is only the native clay, perlite, gypsum, basalt rock dust, lime, and insect frass. When I shift to 100% organic (the only non-organic thing I use now is the fertilizer), I'll be mixing in compost as well.
I couldn't tell you exactly why the NPK numbers are so different. I can tell you thought that you don't need to extrapolate going from synthetic to organic nutes though. That would be crazy. Maybe they have lower numbers because they have to break down and aren't immediately available like synthetic nutes are? That would be my best guess.
http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/index.php/item/happy-frog-all-purpose-fertilizer.html
These types of fertilizers are nice in that they have many different kinds of inputs that vary in how readily available they are to the plant. Some are immediately available, some take a little while to break down, and others take longer still so the plant continues to get different kinds of nutrients over time as things break down.
These types of fertilizers are nice in that they have many different kinds of inputs that vary in how readily available they are to the plant. Some are immediately available, some take a little while to break down, and others take longer still so the plant continues to get different kinds of nutrients over time as things break down.
Hydroformer
Member
Tried a couple club cuts of the Black Lime Reserve this year. Very happy with it so far.
chronosync
Well-known member
Boom! Haha as it laughs at your puny tomato cage !!! Fuckin sick man. Plant looks healthy I mean.
rockymountainJ
Active member
Sweet to hear some info on the happy frog who dat. I was wondering because can get it locally 20 min away. As opposed 1 hr drive to boulder for nutes.... Cheers man
Rmj
Rmj
Can't use the Happy Frog, it's got fish, bone, and blood meal in it.I guess I'm just gonna have to stick to compost mixed into the soil and then watering in heavy doses of insect frass. Top dressing with various types of shit as well.
Fuck.
That stuff is pretty easy to come by. I think they even carry it at the local Ace Hardware store.
I guess I'm just gonna have to stick to compost mixed into the soil and then watering in heavy doses of insect frass. Top dressing with various types of shit as well.
Fuck.
I keep forgetting that you have to worry about that. There are still plenty of good options for you to utilize man, don't give up. There are all kinds of seed meals and things like that. If you are motivated enough you can look into things like cottonseed, karanja, neem. They aren't going to be as fast acting as some of the other things that critters are going to get fired up about but it's a start. If you ever need some quick Nitrogen to you can always use your own pee and dilute it down to a 10:1 ratio of water to pee. I've never personally done it but I would if I needed to. Plus it might deter some critters at least. I was going to recommend you to check out www.buildasoil.com but it seems that their site is down right now. Another good one to start poking around is, https://www.planetnatural.com/product-category/organic-gardening/organic-fertilizers/dry-fertilizer/ You can start looking at things like kelp meal, alfalfa meal, rock phosphate. You can piecemeal your own mix together and I'd even venture a guess that somebody sells a prefabbed mix without the animal attractants for people just like yourself if you search around enough.
