Lets put it this way. I had hired a 2nd generation organic cannabis cultivator, paying him 6 figures to consult on the initial facility design and run it once constructed to his specifications. He yielded maybe .3 gram a watt and cost me a shit ton of money. Yes I shit canned him after learning far too many costly lessons. I had to take over the grow not out of desire but necessity. Getting my grow to produce .68 per watt right now pays the bills and allows for some extra cash to improve the business overall. I am working in a poorly designed facility and have come up with innovations that take 1600 sq ft and produce up to 20lbs a month. Maybe that's good maybe that's not. What I know for certain is I have happy patients and happy wholesale customers and my yields jumped from maybe 5-6 lbs a month to at least 12 and sometimes 20. Also I have up to 15 strains on my shelf that I cultivate. For a newbie that has never done anything like this before I think I'm doing OK. Got a suggestion to make it better? Please share.
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Where are the commercial and legal growers at? 600+ plants
- Thread starter KRxjoe
- Start date
Lets put it this way. I had hired a 2nd generation organic cannabis cultivator, paying him 6 figures to consult on the initial facility design and run it once constructed to his specifications. He yielded maybe .3 gram a watt and cost me a shit ton of money. Yes I shit canned him after learning far too many costly lessons. I had to take over the grow not out of desire but necessity. Getting my grow to produce .68 per watt right now pays the bills and allows for some extra cash to improve the business overall. I am working in a poorly designed facility and have come up with innovations that take 1600 sq ft and produce up to 20lbs a month. Maybe that's good maybe that's not. What I know for certain is I have happy patients and happy wholesale customers and my yields jumped from maybe 5-6 lbs a month to at least 12 and sometimes 20. Also I have up to 15 strains on my shelf that I cultivate. For a newbie that has never done anything like this before I think I'm doing OK. Got a suggestion to make it better? Please share.
Dark Lord
Member
what strains what you run?
Curious what your veg time/height was and how much topping and scrogging you where doing. Cause we are hitting about the same averages with about a 6 week veg or 12-16" height with 2 toppings then scrogging 15-20 plants per 4x8 table. I run up to 12 different strains at a time ( yes I'm crazy) so for us it's not just strain dependant for the yields its more about topping and training the plants.
Up to 12 different ones at a time. right now things are pretty basic but I have some new genetics I'm excited about. In facility now: Sour D, Tahoe OG, OG #18, Darkstar, 3 different CBD strains ( cannatonic, ultra G, and one we have named Michele's gift, it's a 15:1)Kyle Kushman's Strawberry cough and Northern Lights.
In the line up: Blue Flame, Blue Velvet, Kryptonite Blue, MK Ultra, PCK, White Widow, CHem Dawg, Hitman OG, 91 krypt, 5K puff, Training Day,Shark Shock(CBD), Prezidential 2.0, and I'm sure I am forgetting a few others.
What we run? I think you mean what system do we use? Soilless hydro drip, canna nutes in flower and GH in veg for the most part. Phasing out the Canna potentially after I test run the GH 3 part nutes. What about you what do you got on deck? What's your setup?
Well I'm in AZ so plenty of sunshine just really F'n hot most of the year for outdoors. Most the outdoor that is circulated in this particular industry tends to be crap. I am yet to see anyone here produce quality outdoor. Obviously better climates will produce higher quality but not here. I personally have kicked around the idea of outdoor but understand it can be a totally different animal and with my current skill set I don't want to have to learn too much the hard way, as that has already happened enough thus far. Heading to OAksterdam next month to pick up some knowledge so who knows what I'll come back with.
If your doing lots of lights ( over 10k watts) then I hope at least your pulling 2lbs per light. Here in Europe 600 watts is the preferred ( energy consumption). We pull 700-800 grams of organic good bud per 600. It's not uncommon for guys running 1000 watts to pull 1.2 kilos per light.
I'm not saying your a bad grower, but to embark on a 25k sf space, pulling a gram per is very important.
I'm not saying your a bad grower, but to embark on a 25k sf space, pulling a gram per is very important.
Picarus
Member
You said you pride yourself on organics and don't want to use synthetic nutrients but most if not all immediately soluble hydroponic nutrients are synthetic. I am not an expert on them because I do not use any, so I may be mistaken.
I don't want to discourage you or be negative but to coming from a non growing background to a large facility was a mistake. Everyone has to cut their teeth first and your mistakes are going to cost you or your investors a lot of money.
Another issue i have been dealing within my logistics is how to manage an operation in a drought. You are in Az and water issues are not going away. If you can save water through hydro then continue forward but if you are using more water with hydro you should start to pivot right now. Water shortages are only going to get worse for the remainder of our lives. This year I have taken many steps towards conserving my water, and have cut my overall use by about a 1/3.
I do run plant numbers in the amounts that you stated, and it has taken years of perfecting and fine-tuning my methodology and understanding to get to this point. Luckily the margins were not so tight when I started and made mistakes. This last run will yield about 1.9 per 1000w with 6 strains.
I don't want to discourage you or be negative but to coming from a non growing background to a large facility was a mistake. Everyone has to cut their teeth first and your mistakes are going to cost you or your investors a lot of money.
Another issue i have been dealing within my logistics is how to manage an operation in a drought. You are in Az and water issues are not going away. If you can save water through hydro then continue forward but if you are using more water with hydro you should start to pivot right now. Water shortages are only going to get worse for the remainder of our lives. This year I have taken many steps towards conserving my water, and have cut my overall use by about a 1/3.
I do run plant numbers in the amounts that you stated, and it has taken years of perfecting and fine-tuning my methodology and understanding to get to this point. Luckily the margins were not so tight when I started and made mistakes. This last run will yield about 1.9 per 1000w with 6 strains.
In regards to the organic side of things I have been assured that what we use is organic in the sense that it is derived from natural elements basically. Not man made literal synthetics. To be truly organic in all sense of the word is different so you are correct in that regard.
As far as cutting my teeth. I didn't have a choice. First grower was a complete fraud with supposed decades of experience in both personal and commercial grow in Cali and CO. Complete waste of time and money with him. Second grower, little experience great work ethics but couldn't manage the stress, 3rd grow was just flat out lazy and a liar. So know I have taken over and I am training 2 know nothings. With automated systems, simplified nutrient recipes and standardizing procedures things continue to chug a long. I am the investor, I am the one with everything on the line so for me its make it or break it. Maybe that mentality is the only thing that has kept this from falling apart at times. Honestly with my experience now with other "experienced" growers I would rather hire a monkey and train it that some egotistical jerk off that costs me a fortune and doesn't understand the basics of business.
Without watching hours of this guys stuff, from a glance I can say this set up would never work in a large commercial scale. How does this guys get anything done in the garden once his scrog is set. Referring to any treatments or general plant maintenance.
I do agree that getting closer to 1gr/watt is key. We will get there. One of the biggest problems is overall plant size. I have hit that point of critical mass now and need to expand. WIth the current setup space is so limited that it prevents larger plants going into production and then simply limiting my pot(container) size as well. I get into flower and end up with a 4-5ft plant stuck in a 9"x9" pot. Current space does not provide for getting larger pots right now.
I believe strongly that simply having more space will allow for a better gr/watt ratio.
Completely agree, I have been running whatever genetics I have been handed by my partner who runs the retail side of things. She just listens to what people are asking for or whatever sounds good. I would like to get down to just a handful of high yielding and low maintenance genetics. It's an ongoing argument about variety on the shelves vs ease of growing. As far as I'm concerned we can trade with others to get variety on the shelf. The biggest problem there is others quality is pretty bad for the most part minus a few other outfits but they only run a few things and a few of them we carry as well.
Curious as to what genetics you prefer to run. Besides the yields do you test your stuff for cannabinoid levels? It is standard in our shop and we have helped to establish that standard industry wide in our state.
2-3 plants per light, 8 week veg....1 plant a light for 10week veg (from first sign of roots on the cut)....I only run 6k myself...keeps me in more than enough meds. 2-3 plants a light...topped mebbe 3 times. (if there is one thing I learned from subcool..it was LONG veg times, and big containers(especially for my sat leaning hybrid I lost)..
Soiless... And I use bottled nutes (pureblend pro, liquid karma), don't PH or anything like that either....ph of my nute solution is 6.8....
11/13 schedule near the end of flower....
Buddy runs a little 32 light show and he does 16 plants a light, or 8, drip lines to his plants...same nutes and mix (he adds perlite to his sunshine mix)...
He run's C02 and has no day job and he comes close to the 2lb/light mark with a lot of work....not worth the extra effort to me.
Course chopping 30lbs of product a month makes up for his work..lol.....and he works solo(except biatch day..cut day) and schlops it for $2k a lb, $2400 if he doesn't like you..
Fuck i'm in the wrong biz
2-3 plants per light, 8 week veg....1 plant a light for 10week veg (from first sign of roots on the cut)....I only run 6k myself...keeps me in more than enough meds. 2-3 plants a light...topped mebbe 3 times. (if there is one thing I learned from subcool..it was LONG veg times, and big containers(especially for my sat leaning hybrid I lost)..
Soiless... And I use bottled nutes (pureblend pro, liquid karma), don't PH or anything like that either....ph of my nute solution is 6.8....
11/13 schedule near the end of flower....
Buddy runs a little 32 light show and he does 16 plants a light, or 8, drip lines to his plants...same nutes and mix (he adds perlite to his sunshine mix)...
He run's C02 and has no day job and he comes close to the 2lb/light mark with a lot of work....not worth the extra effort to me.
Course chopping 30lbs of product a month makes up for his work..lol.....and he works solo(except biatch day..cut day) and schlops it for $2k a lb, $2400 if he doesn't like you..
Fuck i'm in the wrong biz
Your buddies grow sounds a lot like mine. He has a few more lights though. Doing that himself is impressive. I have 2 full time guys working the grow and 1 full 2 part time trimmers. Plus myself. With all overhead considered it's still not a bad biz to be in.
TheOutlawTree
Active member
You need to pick up the real headband or ECSD... some of the best quality product that will never lose its customer base. Amazing bud to leaf ratio / easy to trim and prune. The skunky piney lemon taste / smell will always have its place in this industry.
I would focus more on learning a couple strains than growing 12 or 15. Its going to be a lot easier to pull consistent yields and maximize profit. Headband and diesel love cooler temps like 75-77 lights on 70 off. It also is important to dim your lights to 600w and lower daytime temps and nighttime temps for the last 2 weeks of flower. At least with headband. My friend hit 3 1/4lb per light on a 12kw grow.. I know its on a lower scale but theres no reason it cant be done in a warehouse with the right workers.
If you have no limt on plant count than a SOG is always the easiest way to maximize yield, but if not you can do 6 plants per 4x8. Use a 50/50 mix of coco/hydroton. I Use 4g pot and I water once a day once there big during flower - 3 week veg... 1 week to 10 days into flower you scrog them creating a canopy that most resembles "corn". Use a simple 3 part GH formula, silicate, drip clean if using coco Cal-mag, and added bloom boosters. I use Bloombastic weeks 3-6 and Humboldt nutrients G-10 weeks 7-10. They are likely not worth the expense for a large wharehouse though. I would probably just use MOAB as per direction and add some sort of hardener for the finish. I run 16kw so I don't mind spending more money on nutes. flush the last week. Do a once a week beneficial bacteria tea for the roots.
I don't see any reason Arizona couldn't produce great outdoor cannabis... How hot does it really get? You could save a fortune on expenses doing an outdoor organic garden. Product will sell for a bit less but profit would still be way better. I am at a perfect elevation here in California... daytime temps are consistent 90-95, nighttime in the low 70's high 60's. Pretty much from mid june to September than it slowly gets cooler to help things ripen up
As far as the resevoirs for drain to waste coco setups.. its pretty easy to set up multiple feeder lines from a reservoir but you would need many smaller resevoirs. Still shouldn't be an issue to mix fresh water and nutrients daily. I give each pot 1 1/2 gallons a day. I can easily manage my 16k with about an hour a day for watering. I could probably take care of 60-100kw if I worked 8 hours a day... but I work hard and I take a lot of pride in that.
I couldn't handle doing a grow that large having to deal with all the workers... I have been through countless partners / workers because of work ethic issues. Although im sure with a proper interview process you could find some good work.
I would focus more on learning a couple strains than growing 12 or 15. Its going to be a lot easier to pull consistent yields and maximize profit. Headband and diesel love cooler temps like 75-77 lights on 70 off. It also is important to dim your lights to 600w and lower daytime temps and nighttime temps for the last 2 weeks of flower. At least with headband. My friend hit 3 1/4lb per light on a 12kw grow.. I know its on a lower scale but theres no reason it cant be done in a warehouse with the right workers.
If you have no limt on plant count than a SOG is always the easiest way to maximize yield, but if not you can do 6 plants per 4x8. Use a 50/50 mix of coco/hydroton. I Use 4g pot and I water once a day once there big during flower - 3 week veg... 1 week to 10 days into flower you scrog them creating a canopy that most resembles "corn". Use a simple 3 part GH formula, silicate, drip clean if using coco Cal-mag, and added bloom boosters. I use Bloombastic weeks 3-6 and Humboldt nutrients G-10 weeks 7-10. They are likely not worth the expense for a large wharehouse though. I would probably just use MOAB as per direction and add some sort of hardener for the finish. I run 16kw so I don't mind spending more money on nutes. flush the last week. Do a once a week beneficial bacteria tea for the roots.
I don't see any reason Arizona couldn't produce great outdoor cannabis... How hot does it really get? You could save a fortune on expenses doing an outdoor organic garden. Product will sell for a bit less but profit would still be way better. I am at a perfect elevation here in California... daytime temps are consistent 90-95, nighttime in the low 70's high 60's. Pretty much from mid june to September than it slowly gets cooler to help things ripen up
As far as the resevoirs for drain to waste coco setups.. its pretty easy to set up multiple feeder lines from a reservoir but you would need many smaller resevoirs. Still shouldn't be an issue to mix fresh water and nutrients daily. I give each pot 1 1/2 gallons a day. I can easily manage my 16k with about an hour a day for watering. I could probably take care of 60-100kw if I worked 8 hours a day... but I work hard and I take a lot of pride in that.
I couldn't handle doing a grow that large having to deal with all the workers... I have been through countless partners / workers because of work ethic issues. Although im sure with a proper interview process you could find some good work.
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Picarus
Member
krxjoe,
I really appreciate your ability to hear a bit of criticism, address it, and move on.
In regards to organic: I was assured of the same when I was running a locally produced 5 part system, but the more I learned the more I know. Everyone is trying to sell you something.
You have the space by sqft to do huge numbers. Assuming your environmental controls are on point and ceiling height is a none issue.
I would love to be in your shoes to be honest. If someone offered me a 6 figure salary I would be all over it. I manage the grow for someone else and am not close to that in salary and am not in a position to judge. I appreciate your business mentality.
Once I turned away from the hydro store hype and started learning true organics everything has changed. Yield and quality are way up and overhead and water consumption are way down.
I wish you luck, and as a flower smoker don't believe those who assure you. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Organics taste better and some qualities of taste are only present when they have been utilized.
I really appreciate your ability to hear a bit of criticism, address it, and move on.
In regards to organic: I was assured of the same when I was running a locally produced 5 part system, but the more I learned the more I know. Everyone is trying to sell you something.
You have the space by sqft to do huge numbers. Assuming your environmental controls are on point and ceiling height is a none issue.
I would love to be in your shoes to be honest. If someone offered me a 6 figure salary I would be all over it. I manage the grow for someone else and am not close to that in salary and am not in a position to judge. I appreciate your business mentality.
Once I turned away from the hydro store hype and started learning true organics everything has changed. Yield and quality are way up and overhead and water consumption are way down.
I wish you luck, and as a flower smoker don't believe those who assure you. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Organics taste better and some qualities of taste are only present when they have been utilized.
Yes, everything gets tested. That is pretty much the standard now where I am at. Percentages of the cannabinoid levels matter, but it's more about being pest/mold free with strong odor. Right now I'm working with mono crops of King Louie OG. It's a lanky stringy strain that has a very low leaf-to-bud ratio and dense buds down to the popcorn. Doesn't like to be fed much early on, but can take it later in flower. Plenty of good strains out there that will hit 2lb per light, they just aren't usually found in the clone shops.
It sucks sometimes because you might find a great strain, but the growth structure just sucks for commercial purposes.
